Will Protestants go through purgatory?

[RoseMary131]

You guys have to understand how I think as a Protestant Christian. I believe that nobody is worthy to go to Heaven on our own merit. It is my understanding that both Catholics and Protestants are enabled to do good works through Christ. We simply believe differently that our works done in Christ as it is applied for justification. So, I get confused how you guys believe non-Christians can do good works on their own without being united to Christ and still enter Heaven. I would like to know the official Catholic Answer on this one. Can someone merit Heaven on their own good works apart from Christ working in them? It almost like saying that Christ did not have to enter this world to live and die, since people can merit Heaven on their own good works. But, help me make sure that I understand what you are actually saying.

I did not say “that Christ did not have to enter this world to live and die.”

We believe all who enter Heaven do so through Jesus Christ. We also believe one does not have to believe in Jesus Christ to be received into the Kingdom of God.

Will this help?

catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

 

[Christian_Unity]

I did not say “that Christ did not have to enter this world to live and die.”

We believe all who enter Heaven do so through Jesus Christ. We also believe one does not have to believe in Jesus Christ to be received into the Kingdom of God.

Will this help?

catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

Okay,if I understand what you are saying, the Catholic Church believes that faith in Christ is not necessary to enter the Kingdom of God, correct?

 

[rinnie]

What about an atheist that leads a moral and righteous life where do you think he will end?
Although if he rejected God will the “work” of his life count for anything?
He had no faith did he?

I agree, he can do all the works he wants, but if you want to enter heaven you must accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.

But as notes its not just works, and it not just faith. Its Grace from God and putting faith and works together they we are judged on. And then its God who either accepts our works and our faith or rejects them.

 

[Christian_Unity]

No actually he said there is no such thing as faith alone. He said all good things come from the GRACE of God. He said there is no such things as faith ALONE. So how do you feel you can have faith without the Grace of God. Because the Pope says its not possible, but you are correct it is Luthers teaching. Rejected by the Church of course.

Come on siblings, do I have to Google the Pope’s teaching in which he said Luther was right on faith alone (qualified statement by the context of what he said). Can someone find it and post it?

 

[rinnie]

Okay,if I understand what you are saying, the Catholic Church believes that faith in Christ is not necessary to enter the Kingdom of God, correct?

:nope:

 

[R_C]

Not to say you are wrong or Christ was irrational, but didn’t He answer in questions as well?

I edited that part and deleted “in the form of questions”…sometimes silly or even gravely erroneous things slip in my sentences and I have to re-read them like 10 times after posting Sorry

 

[Christian_Unity]

I agree, he can do all the works he wants, but if you want to enter heaven you must accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.

But as notes its not just works, and it not just faith. Its Grace from God and putting faith and works together they we are judged on. And then its God who either accepts our works and our faith or rejects them.

I am getting multiple Catholic answers on the necessity of faith in Christ as a requirement of entering Heaven. We all agree that personal good works is necessary (James 2), but we understand it differently.

 

[R_C]

What does it mean by “no fault of their own”?

It means if you are born in a tiny third-world village and die of starvation you are not necessarily going to hell. It also means if you are born in a society where there is no exposure whatsoever to Christianity and where if you even were to try and convert you’d be stoned to death, you do not necessarily go to hell. It means God is the God of infinite mercy, not an unfair bureaucrat.

The Catholic Church believes that faith in Christ is not necessary to enter the Kingdom of God, correct?

‘Love God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’"

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Christ is the only Way, the only Savior, and to those who, out of invincible ignorance, do not directly worship Him, He will grant a shower of graces in order to save them, for salvation is universal. And there you start to see where the issue comes into play with the distortion of the Christian doctrine of salvation: for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law (Romans 3:28), but by works a man is justified, and not by faith only (James 2:24).

Do check this link to find out more, as well as the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification by the Catholic Church and the the Lutheran World Federation.

 

[rinnie]

Come on siblings, do I have to Google the Pope’s teaching in which he said Luther was right on faith alone (qualified statement by the context of what he said). Can someone find it and post it?

Faith ALONE Nope. Faith alone without works is fruitless, Its in the bible. James 2:20 Its useless. You foolish man faith without works is fruitless.

 

[rinnie]

I am getting multiple Catholic answers on the necessity of faith in Christ as a requirement of entering Heaven. We all agree that personal good works is necessary (James 2), but we understand it differently.

How? Its either faith and works or its isn’t. You either use the grace given to you by God or you reject it. Its quite simple. Whats the difference?

If you have faith and reject works you are not getting into heaven. Faith ALONE don’t work. All good things come from the GRACE of God. ITs GRACE ALONE. It by the grace given to us that we are given faith, and by that faith we have free will to choose to use the grace and faith or reject it. If we do not do good works we reject that grace and are not using the faith and grace given to us. Whats our difference in understanding?

 

[rinnie]

I edited that part and deleted “in the form of questions”…sometimes silly or even gravely erroneous things slip in my sentences and I have to re-read them like 10 times after posting Sorry

Ah, we all do that. Its cool.

 

[R_C]

What does it mean by “no fault of their own”?

It means if you are born in a tiny third-world village and die of starvation you are not necessarily going to hell. It also means if you are born in a society where there is no exposure whatsoever to Christianity and where if you even were to try and convert you’d be stoned to death, you do not necessarily go to hell. And it means much, much more, namely that 5 billion children of God won’t go to hell simply because they do not believe like we do. It means God is the God of infinite mercy, not an unfair bureaucrat.

The Catholic Church believes that faith in Christ is not necessary to enter the Kingdom of God, correct?

‘Love God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’"

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Christ is the only Way, the only Savior, and to those who, out of invincible ignorance, do not directly worship Him, He will grant a shower of graces in order to save them, for salvation is universal. Some people have a very peculiar way of showing their love for God, that may not be the same as ours, but that may suffice in the eyes of God, who sees into the heart and knows our inner thoughts. And there you start to see where the issue comes into play with the distortion of the Christian doctrine of salvation: for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law (Romans 3:28), but by works a man is justified, and not by faith only (James 2:24).

Do check this link to find out more, as well as the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification by the Catholic Church and the the Lutheran World Federation.

 

[Gorgias]

Okay,if I understand what you are saying, the Catholic Church believes that faith in Christ is not necessary to enter the Kingdom of God, correct?

You’re seeing this through a particular lens, and this is coloring the way you ask your questions. The way you’ve said it here (“the Catholic Church believes that faith in Christ is not necessary”) would make any Catholic stand up and say “no! That’s not it at all!”

Here’s what the Church is saying:

There are varying standards that are applied to various people based on their life situations. For a Catholic, baptized and catechized in the Catholic Church, it is necessary to stay in the Church in order to be saved. For a non-Catholic Christian, there are many things that speak to the ways that they are related to the Catholic Church: baptism in Christ, belief in the Bible, etc. For all of these (Catholics and non-Catholic Christians), we clearly know the path to salvation, as taught to us by Christ: one must believe in Christ. Period.

However, we also know that God wishes all people to be saved. Now, how can we understand this, if we also say, “if you don’t have faith in Christ, you’re not saved”? What does that say about the people who lived before Jesus came to earth? Are they automatically doomed? What about the people who lived in the Americas prior to the arrival of European missionaries? Is God ok with dispatching all of them to hell?

Of course not! And so, we say, that if God really means that He wants all to be saved, then it’s not like God is bound by the laws that He makes (remember Jesus’ point about the Sabbath being made for man, and not the other way around?). We don’t know how it happens – what the means are – for their salvation (after all, the only means that we’ve been told of are the means for us to get to heaven – baptism, faith), but we trust in God that these other people, who haven’t had the chance to know Jesus (“through no fault of their own”, they weren’t born into or lived in situations that allowed them to hear or accept the Gospel message), still may attain salvation.

Does that help flesh it out for you?

 

[Christian_Unity]

Luther was right on Faith Alone according to the Pope… Catholic source

justforcatholics.org/benedict_justification.htm

 

[RoseMary131]

Okay,if I understand what you are saying, the Catholic Church believes that faith in Christ is not necessary to enter the Kingdom of God, correct?

Yes, I am saying the Catholic Church does teach that there can be people who enter the Kingdom of God, Heaven, who did not have faith in Christ Jesus.

However, at the same time, the Church teaches that it is only through Christ Jesus that anyone enters Heaven.

catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

The Church recognizes that God does not condemn those who are innocently ignorant of the truth about his offer of salvation. Regarding the doctrine in question, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (quoting Vatican II document Lumen Gentium, 16) states:

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)

Vatican II document Gaudium Et Spesteaches similarly on the possibility of salvation:

All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men, and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery. (22)

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Luther was right on Faith Alone according to the Pope… Catholic source

justforcatholics.org/benedict_justification.htm

Did you actually read the article… at all? Past the first little prologue?

Does this mean that Catholics and Protestants are now in agreement on the doctrine of justification? Unfortunately this is not the case. The Pope’s speech highlights the sad reality that the modern Catholic Church is still insisting on the Council of Trent’s doctrine on justification by faith and works. The divide between the two religions remains as wide today as it was in the 16th century.

On one hand the Pope endorses Paul’s teaching of justification by faith, apart from works of the law; on the other, he insists that we can really be just in the eyes of God on account of our love for God and neighbor. That is justification by love, or, justification by human works, for how can we express love apart from doing good works?

The Pope argues that faith unites us with Christ, enabling us to love God and others, and in so doing, we fulfill the law and become really righteous. He said that ‘the double love of God and neighbor the whole law is fulfilled. Thus the whole law is observed in communion with Christ, in faith that creates charity.’ He concluded his speech by saying that ‘transformed by his love, by love of God and neighbor, we can really be just in the eyes of God.’

To be sure such works of love are not done by our natural abilities; we must have faith, we must be united with Christ to really love. But ultimately, it is on account of these personal works that we are justified by God, according to Catholicism.

Enjoy, and then try finishing the article, you may find it enlightening.

He is stating that yes, they are correct that faith is necessary, but that this Truth is only a part of the overall reality.

To everyone else, I vote we drop this discussion. This personal has basically skipped over every point we’ve made and only focused on his/her interpretation of our words and the church’s teachings, rather than on what was actually said.

ChristianUnity, I urge you to stop for a bit, and actually read through everything that we’ve written here, and I mean read it thoroughly, not just glance over it quickly while forming an argument against it. You’ll be very surprised by the ration argument for purgatory, among other things, that we’ve presented.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Most Protestants believe that people can enter Heaven without faith in Christ too. They just don’t think out their theology. For example, what happens to infants who die?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Most Protestants believe that people can enter Heaven without faith in Christ too. They just don’t think out their theology. For example, what happens to infants who die?

You cannot fault a person for not having faith if they’ve never been presented with the Truth to have faith in, what you’re saying is not in opposition to Catholic dogma. A person who has the capacity for faith and then actively chooses to reject faith will be held accountable. Someone who’s had no chance at faith couldn’t be because that is not Just, and God is Just.

 

[rinnie]

If we listen to each other we are not that far off in regards to Christians going to Heaven (Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox). However, in a pluralistic world, there is pressure for accepting other non-Christians as having a legitimate way to enter Heaven. I just wanted to know what the poster means by Muslims and other non-Christians going to purgatory and entering Heaven without Christ working in them. I didn’t mean to drift in some theological debate on salvation. However, when it appears that some Catholics apparently believe that non-Christians can enter Heaven by personal good works, then I would request clarification.

I have no idea what some Catholic’s say or non-Christians. I am just standing up for the teaching of the RCC.

The teaching of the Church is because of Christ and his death on the cross we are all able to have eternal life. ITs quite simple.

But did Christ do it all for us? He did his part, and now we must do our part. Are non-Catholics given a part do you believe?

Did Christ not tell us to obey the commandments? Love one another? Etc. Are these not works? And is it possible to enter heaven without these works? ANother wards do you feel that Christ did our works for us? Or do you believe as Catholics do that by his cross he made it possible for us to enter heaven, BUT we have our share to do also?

Is it faith alone as you say? Or do you agree as the RCC teaches all good things come from the GRACE of God, and by his GRACE we have FAITH, and by our faith and grace we can do good works? Must do good works, Because faith and grace without works is useless?

 

[rinnie]

Most Protestants believe that people can enter Heaven without faith in Christ too. They just don’t think out their theology. For example, what happens to infants who die?

Catholic teaching is Salvation is from Jesus Christ. Without him no entrance into heaven is possible.

The Church does not teach you can enter heaven without accepting Jesus Christ.