Will Protestants go through purgatory?

[batman1973]

Do you mean in the sense that it was Catholic bishops at a Catholic Council who determined the inspired canon of Sacred Scripture, for which Luther even ackowledged and praised the Church? That would be the sense of which I would be thinking.

How do you know they are the words of God?
Oh, man, I really hope that was a joke. If you don’t believe the bible is God’s Word, you may want to talk to your priest…

Or maybe you just don’t have a full understanding of the theology behind it.

What theology is there to fully understand? I don’t accept the Mormons “theology” on their version of purgatory, why should I accept Catholic theology on it?

 

[Porknpie]

I can answer that question. No. Lutherans do not believe in purgatory. And, the bible isn’t a Catholic book in the sense your thinking of. It’s a catholic or universal book. And, I take the words of God over the words of man.(“Purgatory” came from Dante’s Divine Comedy) To say that God will still hold us accountable for sins that Jesus paid for already cheapens Grace.(IMHO) When we ask God to forgive us our sins, He will. He will forgive them, and forget them. From my understanding of the Sacred Scriptures (A very appropriate term, btw) There is no need for the Catholic “purgatory” or the Mormon “spirit prison”

Bat - your universal catholic book is missing 7 books that the Catholic and Orthodox include…including 2 Maccabees. Actually the Orthodox have even more. But Luther still included the 7 …later Lutherans then used a bible with them removed and now are adding them back. why read a bible that has less books than Luther used and the Church canonized?

Take a look at the previous scripturecatholic.com link…there are enough references to purgatory in the 66 that you have plus writings of the early church. And no, purgatory does not cheapen Gods grace.

The Catholic encyclopedia can provide background on purgatory and then some (although the word wasn’t used) to the early church. newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm

 

[batman1973]

Bat - your universal catholic book is missing 7 books that the Catholic and Orthodox include…including 2 Maccabees. Actually the Orthodox have even more. But Luther still included the 7 …later Lutherans then used a bible with them removed and now are adding them back. why read a bible that has less books than Luther used and the Church canonized?

Take a look at the previous scripturecatholic.com link…there are enough references to purgatory in the 66 that you have plus writings of the early church. And no, purgatory does not cheapen Gods grace.

The Catholic encyclopedia can provide background on purgatory and then some (although the word wasn’t used) to the early church. newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm

Awww. It’s hard to say no to ya when you’re bein so nice. Civility goes along way.

 

[Porknpie]

why should I accept Catholic theology on it?

Goes right to the heart of what Church did Christ establish and would he let if fail on faith and morals…as he said he would be with it always. So the why is because Christ established his Catholic Church on earth…guided by the Holy Spirit …

Or did he establish 38,000 churches …all disagreeing?

 

[SteveVH]

If you’re cozy with the idea of spending an indeterminate time in “purgatory” that’s fine with me. Since I know that I can be forgiven of my sins by a Loving God, then I can pass jail and get straight to God.
-Edit: Thank goodness for confession and absolution!

It doesn’t matter what I’m “cozy with”, nor for that matter what you’re “cozy with”. Our “coziness” does not determine our eternal destiny.

 

[Porknpie]

Awww. It’s hard to say no to ya when you’re bein so nice. Civility goes along way.

You know that I have lot of loving LCMS relatives… God bless them all.

And one ex LCMS wife. Pie. Still my wife…

 

[SteveVH]

How do you know they are the words of God?
Oh, man, I really hope that was a joke. If you don’t believe the bible is God’s Word, you may want to talk to your priest…

Nice try.

You know it is the word of God because the Catholic Church told you it was.

 

[batman1973]

Bat - your universal catholic book is missing 7 books that the Catholic and Orthodox include…including 2 Maccabees. Actually the Orthodox have even more. But Luther still included the 7 …later Lutherans then used a bible with them removed and now are adding them back. why read a bible that has less books than Luther used and the Church canonized?

I own four bibles that have the DC’s: A reprint of the 1611 King James( very hard to read) A Douay Rhemis, and two NRSV bibles. One of them is in the “One Year Bible” format, and the other printed by Cambridge has both Roman and Eastern Catholic DCs (like psalm 151)

 

[batman1973]

Nice try.

You know it is the word of God because the Catholic Church told you it was.

Nice try yourself. The Catholic Church certainly did not tell me it was. You’re getting mighty huffy. I’m sorry if I don’t agree to your view.

 

[SteveVH]

Nice try yourself. The Catholic Church certainly did not tell me it was. You’re getting mighty huffy. I’m sorry if I don’t agree to your view.

Well I tend to get a little huffy when one accuses me of not believing that the Bible is the word of God. You indicated that you did not believe that that the Bible is a Catholic document. I only asked how you know it is the word of God. Still don’t have an answer.

 

[batman1973]

Well I tend to get a little huffy when one accuses me of not believing that the Bible is the word of God. You indicated that you did not believe that that the Bible is a Catholic document. I only asked how you know it is the word of God. Still don’t have an answer.

Faith. That’s how I know it’s the Word of God. Asked, answered, moving on.

 

[Porknpie]

Well I tend to get a little huffy when one accuses me of not believing that the Bible is the word of God. You indicated that you did not believe that that the Bible is a Catholic document. I only asked how you know it is the word of God. Still don’t have an answer.

Steve, or asked another way, how do you trust that the Catholic Church selected the 73 inspired and infallible writings out of several hundred. Remove the 7 even and ask the same question … Then distrust that same church on faith and morals…

 

[PaulinePresbytr]

What about an atheist that leads a moral and righteous life where do you think he will end?
Although if he rejected God will the “work” of his life count for anything?
He had no faith did he?

When one puts good eggs into a basket of bad eggs does it make the bad eggs good? No,
Rather the so called good works of the atheist are corrupt. We ALL deserve to go to hell, each and every last one of us. It is only through the redemptive grace of God through his only Son our Lord Jesus Christ that were are saved. While there is debate over justification to salvation there is NO debate over the inherint cause of salvation which is Grace Alone.

 

[Gorgias]

batman1973:

What theology is there to fully understand?

Answer the questions in my post that you seem to have missed – that’s the extent of the theology of ‘purgatory’…!

(Please notice, by the way, that you’re arguing against a notion of purgatory that Catholics aren’t arguing for – we’re not saying that God is holding previously-forgiven sins against us! Rather, we’re simply saying that, having sinned, we’re not perfect; having been forgiven, we’re justified – but still, we’re not perfect. All purgatory is, is a way of saying that, after death, we’ll be made perfect!)

batman1973:

Well, I don’t know about anyone else, but since Jesus’ Blood washed me clean from all sin and unrightousness, I don’t have to spend anytime anywhere except in heaven.

In heaven, will you be perfect?

(Easy question: ‘Yep’ – after all, no one can stand before God and behold him (and still survive!) without being perfect in God’s sight.)

Are you perfect now? (Not ‘justified’… not ‘saved’… perfect).

If you answer ‘yes’, well, then…

If you answer ‘no’, well then, you agree with the Catholic position: something has to happen between the time of your death and the time you begin life in heaven to make you perfect. That’s all we’re saying with the doctrine of Purgatory. (All the rest is just an attempt to understand it by approximating its character in human terms…)

 

[pablope]

Faith. That’s how I know it’s the Word of God. Asked, answered, moving on.

How did you get or acquire the faith that it is the word of God?

How did you acquire the faith? And what is that faith? Did the Bible say it so? And how did faith tell you it is the word of God?

 

[pablope]

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9) He makes us clean.

“IF”…there is a condition…if one confesses one’s sins…but is that enough? And where does this verse/passage say how is one to confess one’s sins?

Let me ask you…is that only what is required? Can you get to heaven if you do not forgive the sins against you?

From MATT 6…14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

“As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions from us” (Psalm 103:12) God forgets our sins, if we confess them.

 

[Porknpie]

When one puts good eggs into a basket of bad eggs does it make the bad eggs good?

if you crack them and fry them together it does.

It is only through the redemptive grace of God through his only Son our Lord Jesus Christ that were are saved.

This is what the Catholic Church has taught for 2000 years.

Catholic catechism

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism

1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46

You can read more here… scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm

Pauline - do you believe in a sacramental or symbolic baptism?

 

[JRRTFAN]

On a Christian Fellowship Facebook site consisting of both Catholics and Protestants, one of the Catholic Members brought up purgatory. Since Protestants generally do not believe in the doctrine of purgatory, what does the Catholic Church teach about Protestants going to purgatory even though most of us do not believe in it? Will Protestants still go to purgatory prior to our final Heavenly destination?

Yes they will. A person’s belief or non-belief in an objective fact situation does not change the objective fact situation.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Yes they will. A person’s belief or non-belief in an objective fact situation does not change the objective fact situation.

I didn’t know Catholic Fundamentalism existed. When someone uses the words of objective fact in regards to a theological distinctive, then who know a Fundamentialistic mindset has set in. Spiritual truth is based on faith and not objective fact. Until you actually go to purgatory, that particular Catholic distinctive is one of faith and not of fact. Just because you believe in purgatory doesn’t mean that it is true.

 

[Gorgias]

When someone uses the words of objective fact in regards to a theological distinctive, then who know a Fundamentialistic mindset has set in. Spiritual truth is based on faith and not objective fact. Until you actually go to purgatory, that particular Catholic distinctive is one of faith and not of fact.

True, but here’s the discussion: presuming Purgatory exists, will Protestants (who don’t believe in its existence) go through the process of Purgation?

Just because you believe in purgatory doesn’t mean that it is true.

Just because you don’t, doesn’t mean it’s untrue?