Will the Church ever change the way mass is celebrated again?

[7_Sorrows]

We do this as well. We are trying to support the Hispanic culture here, which is great.
But, my question is, why do we just do the Mass in Spanish. Everything will be fine. If I want to attend the Spanish Mass I can do that. If you want to do the regular Sunday morning Mass in Spanish, great. Just do it in Spanish. Don’t do it in both.

When we schedule a bilingual Mass it is attended by the Anglos and just a few Hispanics. The Hispanics go to the Mass in Spanish later in the day.

we have a regular Spanish Mass on Sundays, but bilingual Masses on Holy days of obligation. I think they should just have a Spanish Mass than bilingual. only one of the readings was in Spanish and only one song. the homily was English/Spanish. the hispanic community is pretty big.

 

[lairdangus]

I am a convert. so how did the Mass change in 1969.

The Novus Ordo mass of Cardinal Bugnini (a freemason who wanted to “harmonize” the Catholic liturgy with the Protestant) is a completely different rite than the Tridentine Mass that was codified at the Council of Trent.

People tend to focus on the shift from Latin to the vernacular, but that is, in my opinion, a bit of a side issue. The major difference between the Novus Ordo mass and the Mass of the Ages is in the different conception of what the Mass itself means.

For all time, Catholics have believed the Mass to be a symbolic re-enactment of Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary in which the sanctifying authority of the priest (which comes from the Magesterium, which comes in turn from the Petrine office) activates God’s grace and by inviting the real presence of Jesus Christ into the Eucharist. It is thus a temporary moment of union between Heaven and Earth. This is why the priest and his assistants faced the tabernacle and altar—to offer due reverence to the King of Kings who was present in the consecrated host.

Now, the problem that traditionalists have with the Novus Ordo is that, while it did not explicitly change the underlying theology of the Mass, it re-cast the ritual more along the lines of the Protestant’s “communion,” which is merely a symbolic re-enactment of the Last Supper. Communion is thus more about fellowship and mental prayer while the Eucharist is about sacrifice and sanctification. You see this played out physically in the movements called for in the different liturgies. Protestants typically do not bow or genuflect before the altar because they do not believe that Christ is really there. Catholics do.

So it follows, according to traditional Catholic teaching, that if Christ is really present, then we should all be facing him and in the same direction, just as one would do with an earthly King. The priest is our intercessor, but he is not the FOCUS of the sacrament. Traditional Catholics feel that having the priest face the congregation undermines the sense of the sacred as well as the centrality, Kingship, and real presence of Christ.

Another key objection of traditionalists is the manner in which we receive the Eucharist in the Novus Ordo—“in the hand.” Historically, Catholics would kneel before the real presence and receive it on the tongue, both as a sign of respect and to minimize the potential for sacrilege (i.e., people sneaking off with a consecrated host to do unseemly things with it—YES, THIS DOES ACTUALLY HAPPEN!). If we as Catholics believe that Christ is really present in the Eucharist, should we not receive such with an appropriate sense of reverence?

There are many other, smaller changes of course. The elimination of the Leonine prayers to St. Michael, the (re)introduction of the ancient sign of peace (of which THIS traditional Catholic is actually quite fond!), the homily requirement, the approval of lay people serving as Eucharistic ministers, etc…but these are the major objections, I believe.

I hope this helps.

EDIT: While I consider myself a traditional Roman Catholic, I do believe that the Novus Ordo is valid. I have seen the Novus Ordo celebrated with great reverence and beauty, and I do not doubt for one moment that God’s grace can and does sanctify it as a true sacrifice.

The growth in the Extraordinary Form (the “Latin Mass”) since Pope Benedict’s Summorum Pontificum is highly encouraging, however. In the US, there are now nearly 500 weekly Tridentine Masses within the Church (not including SSPX, SSPV, and other groups). The problem I have, personally, with the Novus Ordo is that I feel it leads many unsuspecting people into a loss of reverence and faith because of it’s overt similarity to Protestant communion services. To me, it is “new Coke.” Those who had never tasted the original Coca Cola preferred the new Coke in taste tests. Well intentioned marketers at Coca Cola thought they were re-inventing their product for a new generation. And it was, after all, still Coca Cola. In the end, they wisely realized they had made a mistake and went back to the formula that was true to tradition and their core identity.

 

[7_Sorrows]

The Novus Ordo mass of Cardinal Bugnini (a freemason who wanted to “harmonize” the Catholic liturgy with the Protestant) is a completely different rite than the Tridentine Mass that was codified at the Council of Trent.

People tend to focus on the shift from Latin to the vernacular, but that is, in my opinion, a bit of a side issue. The major difference between the Novus Ordo mass and the Mass of the Ages is in the different conception of what the Mass itself means.

For all time, Catholics have believed the Mass to be a symbolic re-enactment of Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary in which the sanctifying authority of the priest (which comes from the Magesterium, which comes in turn from the Petrine office) activates God’s grace and by inviting the real presence of Jesus Christ into the Eucharist. It is thus a temporary moment of union between Heaven and Earth. This is why the priest and his assistants faced the tabernacle and altar—to offer due reverence to the King of Kings who was present in the consecrated host.

Now, the problem that traditionalists have with the Novus Ordo is that, while it did not explicitly change the underlying theology of the Mass, it re-cast the ritual more along the lines of the Protestant’s “communion,” which is merely a symbolic re-enactment of the Last Supper. Communion is thus more about fellowship and mental prayer while the Eucharist is about sacrifice and sanctification. You see this played out physically in the movements called for in the different liturgies. Protestants typically do not bow or genuflect before the altar because they do not believe that Christ is really there. Catholics do.

So it follows, according to traditional Catholic teaching, that if Christ is really present, then we should all be facing him and in the same direction, just as one would do with an earthly King. The priest is our intercessor, but he is not the FOCUS of the sacrament. Traditional Catholics feel that having the priest face the congregation undermines the sense of the sacred as well as the centrality, Kingship, and real presence of Christ.

Another key objection of traditionalists is the manner in which we receive the Eucharist in the Novus Ordo—“in the hand.” Historically, Catholics would kneel before the real presence and receive it on the tongue, both as a sign of respect and to minimize the potential for sacrilege (i.e., people sneaking off with a consecrated host to do unseemly things with it—YES, THIS DOES ACTUALLY HAPPEN!). If we as Catholics believe that Christ is really present in the Eucharist, should we not receive such with an appropriate sense of reverence?

There are many other, smaller changes of course. The elimination of the Leonine prayers to St. Michael, the (re)introduction of the ancient sign of peace (of which THIS traditional Catholic is actually quite fond!), the homily requirement, the approval of lay people serving as Eucharistic ministers, etc…but these are the major objections, I believe.

I hope this helps.

EDIT: While I consider myself a traditional Roman Catholic, I do believe that the Novus Ordo is valid. I have seen the Novus Ordo celebrated with great reverence and beauty, and I do not doubt for one moment that God’s grace can and does sanctify it as a true sacrifice.

The growth in the Extraordinary Form (the “Latin Mass”) since Pope Benedict’s Summorum Pontificum is highly encouraging, however. In the US, there are now nearly 500 weekly Tridentine Masses within the Church (not including SSPX, SSPV, and other groups). The problem I have, personally, with the Novus Ordo is that I feel it leads many unsuspecting people into a loss of reverence and faith because of it’s overt similarity to Protestant communion services. To me, it is “new Coke.” Those who had never tasted the original Coca Cola preferred the new Coke in taste tests. Well intentioned marketers at Coca Cola thought they were re-inventing their product for a new generation. And it was, after all, still Coca Cola. In the end, they wisely realized they had made a mistake and went back to the formula that was true to tradition and their core identity.

Thank you for your reply. Beautifully worded for this convert to understand appreciate where you are coming from.