Will the Church now be persecuted?

[Mack_II]

I expect that speaking “the truth” about homosexuality is also one of the best disguises that Gay-haters can ‘wear’.

All a bit of a problem, really, isn’t it, hate merchants hiding out amongst ordinary “truth” speakers?

I expect that calling everybody who speaks the truth about homesexuality “gay haters” is also one of best disguises that Gay-advocates who hate can ‘wear’.

All a bit of a problem, really, isn’t it, hate merchants hiding out amongst ordinary “gay rights” speakers?

Hate is an equal opportunity sin.

Here’s an experiment everyone can try. Everybody say **“hate” **ten times out loud. Ready? **Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! **

You’ve just raised your pulse rate. Your blood pressure is up too. One of the best tactics to push a point of view is to constantly accuse your opponent of hatred. This could make them feel angry because the word “hate” is directly connected to the adrenal gland by all our past experiences with the word and because nobody likes to be accused of being bad. Now, if your opponent can’t hide their outrage at your unfair accusation, just keep pushing them and you’ve got them. The next time you argue, you can bring up their “hate” again (with evidence this time), and the next time, and the next time, and … Your own hatred for them is what makes you behave so cruelly, but your agenda is all important, isn’t it? You must push on. Win at all cost!! This has been an experiment. Do you feel the anger? Can you now see how this tactic is self fulfilling? Why it works? If this had been my real point of view, it would be fair to accuse me of doing the very same thing that I was against. Now for my real point of view.

There is a better way. It’s called love. I understand that there has been real instances where people who hate have attacked homosexuals, but most people who are opposed to sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman do not hate homosexuals. I also understand that most people who champion the cause of homosexual rights also do not hate. The one’s that hate are a minority. The Church teaches us to love even those who oppose us and since I believe the Church is being led by the Holy Spirit, I believe that we should follow the teaching of the Church.

 

[Kaninchen]

All a bit of a problem, really, isn’t it, hate merchants hiding out amongst ordinary “gay rights” speakers?

Very likely.

Hate is an equal opportunity sin.

That’s for sure and terribly self-indulgent with lots and lots of opportunities to indulge.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

Oh, I’m sure that death threats are true ‘persecution’ and I’m equally sure that a lot of gay people there therefore ‘persecuted’.

You know, a lot of people complain when Jewish people call them anti-Semitic just because they oppose the actions of the State of Israel and they are right to do so - the trouble is that anti-Zionism is also one of the best disguises that a Jew-hater can have. I expect that speaking “the truth” about homosexuality is also one of the best disguises that Gay-haters can ‘wear’.

All a bit of a problem, really, isn’t it, hate merchants hiding out amongst ordinary “truth” speakers?

Do we now agree that persecution takes place today? I could not tell if you agreed, or were being sarcastic.

Dan

 

[Kaninchen]

Do we now agree that persecution takes place today? I could not tell if you agreed, or were being sarcastic.

Dan

I’d say that death threats are ‘persecution’. Should any government announce the “final solution to the Catholic problem”, it would be certainly the case that the Church was being persecuted.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

I’d say that death threats are ‘persecution’. Should any government announce the “final solution to the Catholic problem”, it would be certainly the case that the Church was being persecuted.

Your subtlety seems to be intentional, but I find it only gets in the way of me perfectly understanding you.

Do you suggest that there is no persecution of the Church unless it is through state legislation that makes speaking the truth a crime penalized by death? That definitely would be persecution, no argument there! But is that the test of persecution?

Can individuals persecute the Church? On their own? Without legislative authority?

I’ve tested my own understanding of persecution by looking it up:

Persecute

1. to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, esp. because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently.
2. to annoy or trouble persistently.

The definition I found does not seem to limit persecution to just what the state does. It appears that ordinary people, when harassing others because of religious views, race, or their beliefs, can be persecuting. This obviously happens today. A lot! Is this not persecution, in the very real sense (definition) of the word?

Dan

 

[Kaninchen]

Your subtlety seems to be intentional, but I find it only gets in the way of me perfectly understanding you.

In your previous response you suggested I was being sarcastic, so I gave you an example of me being sarcastic, so you could tell. “Final solution”, you see, is the kind of phrase that tends to surround real persecution.

Do you suggest that there is no persecution of the Church unless it is through state legislation that makes speaking the truth a crime penalized by death? That definitely would be persecution, no argument there! But is that the test of persecution?

I’m suggesting that there’s a difference between real persecution and ‘sentimental’ persecution - I’d suggest that a significant difference would lie in the question of whether the people involved have available the protection of the law.

The definition I found does not seem to limit persecution to just what the state does. It appears that ordinary people, when harassing others because of religious views, race, or their beliefs, can be persecuting. This obviously happens today. A lot! Is this not persecution, in the very real sense (definition) of the word?

Religious views, race, gender, sexual orientation . . . .

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

In your previous response you suggested I was being sarcastic, so I gave you an example of me being sarcastic, so you could tell. “Final solution”, you see, is the kind of phrase that tends to surround real persecution.

I’m suggesting that there’s a difference between real persecution and ‘sentimental’ persecution - I’d suggest that a significant difference would lie in the question of whether the people involved have available the protection of the law.

Religious views, race, gender, sexual orientation . . . .

I missed your sarcasm, sorry. That is one of the problems with the written word. It’s pretty good at conveying ideas, but not very good at conveying the sentiment in which it was meant to be delivered.

It appears that you define persecution more extremely than the dictionary does. I don’t have any problem with that, its just when others say persecution exists, and you say it does not, and your definition differs from the rest of us, we will appear to be at odds until the symantics are straightened out.

Dan

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Where everything is ‘persecution’, nothing is - in other words, the word loses its meaning.

Not getting your way on everything does not constitute ‘persecution’ - as somebody pointed out on another thread ‘Dafur is persecution’.

​

 

[evelynicholson]

No Christian should ever hate another Christian. If you are ruled by what you want and by your passions, and we are to accept any behaviour because of what you want to do, this is sustainable as long as it does not hurt us, the Church. Christians area people set apart, a holy people. We are God centred not centred by the world, because we believe we will be judged by God at the end of time.Our bodies are 'temples of the Hly Spirit 'of God, so we try not (do not always succeed) to defile our bodies by committing adultery. Gods wishes are made clear in the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. Other people may do as they wish,but we cannot let this touch us. Of course there are homosexual people in the Church and they can go to confession like anyone else,but we are standing and believing in a place where you can never stand, unless the Holy Spirit comes upon you one day - perhaps at a time of pain and you can feel God’s love. We don’t hate you, but you hate us and hatred is evil.As someone with several gay friends, some of whom have died of aids, I ****I know it’s not a happy lifestyle.I have sat with old men who are too old to get partners crying into their beer and getting more and more bitter.Don’t accuse people of hating-their ‘gay’ friends would not give them the time of day, when they were not attractive any more and of no further use. Being ‘gay’ is a lifestyle, chosen by some people, not a religion.We will not conform to laws which compromise our faith and never have. This does not mean we hate gays. You must be very young to have such black and white views on everything. A wise person tries to see things from every angle. No one is condemning you or anyone else.Even St Paul had to take on the homosexuals in Corinth along with others living with people they are not married to.Marriage is a holy sacrament between a man and a women, lasting until death. It is a similar vow to becoming a monk or a nun. You can’t mess about with it-You know what God wants and get on with it, resisting the efforts of others to change sacred laws.When we stand at the Judgement, we have to account for ourselves and can’t say 'Well God, actually you were wrong there!'If you don’t believe in judgement don’t read Revelations and take pot luck.I will pray for you, that the holy spirit will come on all of you on this thread who are ‘gay’ that one day you will see that love is pure and unconditional and comes of God. It is not us you are offending and challenging-it’s Him. This is really pointless to go on, as you seem at the moment to have no understanding for any ideas but your own.You are also made in God’s image and we will pray for you that i your deepest torment, you will begin to understand. I am not writing on this thread again as I don’t believe there is any point. I had answered this before,

 

[Crusader1095]

Of course the Church will be persecuted. It has lost its belief that it has the right to rule and spread the gospel with power and victory. Its self defeatest attitude will be its demise in the coming centuries. Only recently, it foolishly apologized for the crusades. What a joke!

 

[rpp]

Of course the Church will be persecuted. It has lost its belief that it has the right to rule and spread the gospel with power and victory. Its self defeatest attitude will be its demise in the coming centuries. Only recently, it foolishly apologized for the crusades. What a joke!

I believe it was Pope John Paul II himself that did this. I would hope that we all would take care when referring to the public actions of the Holy Father.