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JacktheCatholic
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You lost me…
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maurin
Guest
In order to call a spade a spade, you use the label"spade." To deny the use of labels is to fall into the modernist liberal sin of relativism.
But I think we already have.
But I think we already have.
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JacktheCatholic
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Magnus467
Guest
SSPX is indeed extremist because they reject the new laws of the Church. Their beliefs for the most part are not extreme but their rejection of canon law, illicit sacraments, and schismatic attitude are extreme.
The use of labels is not relativism. This is nonsense. The use of labels is an intellectually lazy way to broad strokes over groups of people. The beauty of Catholicism is that so many different people can be under one roof. Calling people traditional and liberal contributes to the schismatic mentality and seeks to create division within the Church.
Who exactly are the progressives that are killing the Church?
The teachings of the Church have not changed last time I checked. Of course, little t tradition is able to change. Little t tradition such as the language of the Mass, disciplines about fasting, and other small things.
The use of labels is not relativism. This is nonsense. The use of labels is an intellectually lazy way to broad strokes over groups of people. The beauty of Catholicism is that so many different people can be under one roof. Calling people traditional and liberal contributes to the schismatic mentality and seeks to create division within the Church.
Who exactly are the progressives that are killing the Church?
The teachings of the Church have not changed last time I checked. Of course, little t tradition is able to change. Little t tradition such as the language of the Mass, disciplines about fasting, and other small things.
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Emmit_Fitzhume
Guest
I am glad to see there are still people who have a grip on their sanity and reason. God Bless you.
If you believe that I don’t support the SSPX with my entire being, then you don’t know my posts very well.
What I intended to say by my post, notredame, is that these conservatives who denigrate and defame the Society with their slanders of schism fail to apply the same standards to the liberals who are killing Catholicism. I beg pardon if I wasn’t clear.
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Emmit_Fitzhume
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The SSPX are the pillars of The Church. Let history be the judge. We will be thanked for our service in the end.
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Magnus467
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Rome has made it clear that Catholics who are in good standing with the Catholic Church must not attend SSPX Masses for the following reasons: their holy orders and thus their masses are illicit, their confessions and marriages are invalid, and they have a schismatic mentality. There is no excuse to separate yourself from the Body of Christ, none!If you believe that I don’t support the SSPX with my entire being, then you don’t know my posts very well.
What I intended to say by my post, notredame, is that these conservatives who denigrate and defame the Society with their slanders of schism fail to apply the same standards to the liberals who are killing Catholicism. I beg pardon if I wasn’t clear.
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Magnus467
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Indeed. Although, is there a legitimate reason to separate yourself from the Body of Christ?
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Emmit_Fitzhume
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I do not think you truly know what you are talking about? If we were lepers as you imply, Rome would not be hosting us for Doctrinal talks. The truth of the matter is that ANY Catholic may go to an SSPX Mass out of love for the Traditional Latin Mass. Why do you distort the truth so much?
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Emmit_Fitzhume
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We have not done so. We are saviours of The Church. All we have done…All our predecessors have done, has been for The Body of Christ. God Bless You
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ProVobis
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You are right about that. It’s the progressives that certainly try to change them though and in a lot of self-serving ways, they have managed.
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Magnus467
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I do not understand what you mean by lepers. I am not distorting the truth. Prove me wrong.
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maurin
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Emmit,
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Magnus467
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It is good to see you again! We always seem to find each other. Indeed I agree there are some bad people out there aka woman priests groups, contraception. However, I think it is important for people (not in implying you
) to understand tradition and Tradition.
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Emmit_Fitzhume
Guest
One other note. Let us not forget it was Rome that reached out to us. The Holy Spirit realizes the importance of the faithful having free access to the Traditional Latin Mass. It is necessary for the survival of The Church…actually, it is THe Church!!! If the majority of bishops and archbishops and Cardinals would have already made it as freely accessible as it should be, i.e. at least one TLM per week in each parish, then the SSPX would really be irrellevant. Being history has proven that there are many in power that seem to want to abrogate the TLM entirely, the Holy Spirit saw it fitting to inspire the great Archbishop to found the SSPX. We are now the Holy Spirit’s tool to ensure the complete restoration of The TLM throughout the world. Do you really believe we could’ve existed in the climate of the world and Church today without divine assistance? We are here for a reason. The Church needs us. The Pope needs us, and the sooner these doctrinal talks bear fruit, the better The Church will be for it. God Bless
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Magnus467
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LETTER OF HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI
TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
concerning the remission of the excommunication
of the four Bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre
The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church. There needs to be a distinction, then, between the disciplinary level, which deals with individuals as such, and the doctrinal level, at which ministry and institution are involved. In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.
I distort no truth my friend. Why do you?
TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
concerning the remission of the excommunication
of the four Bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre
The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church. There needs to be a distinction, then, between the disciplinary level, which deals with individuals as such, and the doctrinal level, at which ministry and institution are involved. In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.
I distort no truth my friend. Why do you?
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Magnus467
Guest
Rome reached out to you because Rome seeks to be one. Romes reaches out to Protestants and the Orthodox and atheists. The Latin Mass is not necessary to the survival of the Church and is not the Church. The Latin Mass didn’t exist for centuries. The Eastern Catholics seem to survive quite well without it. Some people didn’t want the TLM because it would spread the influence of schismatics, at the time, like Lvefebre (I don’t know how to spell it). Who are you to declare yourselves the guardian of the Church? I doubt the HS inspired their excommunication. It appears Pope Benedict and the FSSP appear to be the tools not the SSPX. The Church does not need you, you need the Church. There is no salvation outside the Church.
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maurin
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Emmit, beware of the amateur theologians and self appointed experts of canon law with whom you’re speaking. Finer points such as supplied jurisdiction are foreign to them. I’ve found its best not to tax them too much. They mean well. Congratulate them on their love for the Church. Then read again the Parable of the sower.
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Magnus467
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It doesn’t take an expert to know what’s going on. Do you care to refute me or just attack my credibility? I don’t think the Pope could any clearer.
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Emmit_Fitzhume
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The Pope has made it clear than anyone who has an attachment to the TLM can attend SSPX Chapels to fulfill that attachment without fear of reprimand. I think ROME believes that way, because they know that the TLM is not offered freely enough throughout all the parishes.
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