Will the real Islam please stand up!

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islam was spread by the sword no doubt.here are a few of the many more violent ways it spread the religion of peace…

AD 632 – Muhammad’s death.

AD 635 – Christian Damascas fell to invading Muslims.

AD 636 – Christian Antioch fell to invading Muslims.

AD 638 – Christian Jerusalem,and later Alexandria,fell to invading Muslims.

AD 650 – Muslim armies reached Cilicia and Caesarea of Cappodocia. In the same period Muslim forces carried out raids on Cyprus, Rhodes, Crete and Sicily, carrying off thousands of Christian slaves.

AD 668 – Muslim armies laid siege to Constantinople. They were repulsed.

AD 711 – Muslim armies invaded Spain. By AD 715 they had conquered most of Spain.

AD 717 – Muslim armies again laid siege to Constantinople. Again repulsed.

AD 721-- victory of Odo the Great in the Battle of Toulouse, He was the first to stop the Muslim onslaught in Europe.

AD 732 – Muslim armies invaded France. Charles Martel stopped them at Tours.

AD 792 – The Muslim ruler of Spain, Hisham, called for a new invasion of France. An international Islamic crusade was assembled, and was repulsed by the French.

AD 827 – Muslim warriors invaded Italy and Sicily, terrorised monks,and raped nuns. Sicily was held by Muslims until AD 1091.

AD 846 – Muslim armies reached Rome, where they forced the Pope to pay them tribute.

AD 848 – France was again invaded by Muslims. And again repulsed.

AD 1059 – Pope Urban II launched the FIRST Crusade.

what i cant understand is it is said by muslims that allah is a great deciever?

would any non muslim want to follow sombody who decieves?
 
now here is a explanation of what it is meaning by a muslim and what they are taught…

you tell me if putting somebody on the cross instead of Jesus is deceiving or not??

You may be talking about verse 3:54 of the Qur’an. The verse has to do with the Prophet Jesus. Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified, but was raised up to the heavens by Allah. Maybe you are asking this question because the word “deciever” has a “bad” connotation. The Qur’an is in Arabic, a complex language, so lets look at several English translations of verse 3:54.

Sahih International
And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.

Muhsin Khan
And they (disbelievers) plotted [to kill 'Iesa (Jesus) ], and Allah planned too. And Allah is the Best of the planners.

Pickthall
And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.

Yusuf Ali
And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.

Shakir
And they planned and Allah (also) planned, and Allah is the best of planners.

Arberry
And they devised, and God devised, and God is the best of devisers.

Sarwar
The unbelievers plotted and God planned, but God is a much better planner;

Khalifa
They plotted and schemed, but so did GOD, and GOD is the best schemer.

Hilali/Khan
And they (disbelievers) plotted (to kill Iesa (Jesus) ), and Allah planned too. And Allah is the Best of the planners.

Malik
The unbelievers among the children of Israel plotted against Jesus and Allah also devised a plan to raise him up, and Allah is the best in planning.

QXP
The opponents made some plans, but so did Allah. And Allah is the Virtuous of planners. (They schemed to arrest and crucify Jesus but Allah assured him).

Maulana Ali
And (the Jews) planned and Allah (also) planned. And Allah is the best of planners.

Free Minds
And they schemed and God schemed, but God is the best schemer.

Qaribullah
They devised, and Allah devised. And Allah is the Best Devisor.

George Sale
And the Jews devised a stratagem against him; but God devised a stratagem against them; and God is the best deviser of stratagems.

JM Rodwell
And the Jews plotted, and God plotted: But of those who plot is God the best.

Asad
And the unbelievers schemed [against Jesus]; but God brought their scheming to nought: for God is above all schemers.

And the explanation of the verse from Tafsir Al-Jalalayn:
God says: And they, the disbelievers among the Children of Israel, schemed, against Jesus, by assigning someone to assassinate him; and God schemed, by casting the likeness of Jesus onto the person who intended to kill him, and so they killed him, while Jesus was raised up into heaven; and God is the best of schemers, most knowledgeable of him [Jesus].
 
Random Trial member with exactly 2 posts steps into already heated debate thread…

:hmmm:

Two possibiltiies pop into my head at this point.
 
ive been reading the forum for the last 3/4 weeks.

ive seen a lot being asked and said about real catholics and muslims,i agree with both sides of the debate.but i thought i have a little to ask about this so i have.

nothing wrong i hope?

if it offensive then please take it away from the thread.

i would not call this a heated debate.lolol.

its sharing and understanding…

ive not joined to just post in here.no no…ive come to ask and learn things about my catholic faith…just that ive been following this and a few other debates similar on here for a bit i thought could i ask some thing?show some thing?
 
Vouthon said:
Some Sufi missionaries apparently spread Islam peacefully throughout North Africa; though admittedly they also accompanied invading Islamic armies such as the ones that entered India during the Middle Ages, and usually peacefully inculturated the population with Islamic values in the wake of more martial attempts to do so by forceful means on the part of the military men and some of the ulema.
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At this particular juncture in history, Sufism and the Politicized version of Islam (you know, the one calling for the collective death of the “Crusader Zionists from the Secular West”…yeah…they don’t really knows us that well do they? :P) are pretty much at odds with one another.

reuters.com/article/2012/08/25/libya-islamists-idUSL6E8JP1F720120825

Frankly, unless supported by outside forces, Sufism will undoubtedly contract in the face of its far more belligerent cousin.
 
dolphinlove said:
After the horrible protest we have recently had in Sydney, a few muslims have come out saying they are disgraced by the way ‘a few of the minority’ have carried on. Koodos to them I say.
However, we see in countries, especially Pakistan, not a few, but a LOT are burning American flags and people are dying from these protests.
Some muslims claim that this is not the real islam, but from what we are seeing, im not agreeing with them.
Can muslims, or anyone prove that islam is not as bad as the impression they are giving?
Click to expand...
Well, there are over a billion Muslims in the world today, either practicing or nominally. Don’t get the wrong impression: Islam is a false religion and I do not think Muhammad was visited by an angel of God (another kind of angel, maybe). But do you see a billion people protesting? Half a billion? Because that would be most. 🤷
 
There may be many, even a majority, of peacfull Muslims but then there are plenty of self proclaimed Catholics that pick and choose what beliefs to practice, neither seem to actually follow the dogma. Historically, Islam has been used in a violent fashion nearly from it’s inception. Frankly, I don’t put any more faith in Muhommad’s claims he was vistited by an angel than any of Joseph Smith’s far fetched stuff.

One thing that stikes me as amazing: Islam or the faith of many of it’s believers must be a very fragile thing. It sure doesn’t seem to take much to set them off. A disagreeable movie, cartoon, or book starts the violence time after time. Imagine if us Catholics or Jews were to behave in the same manner.
 
WildeKurt said:
One thing that stikes me as amazing: Islam or the faith of many of it’s believers must be a very fragile thing. It sure doesn’t seem to take much to set them off. A disagreeable movie, cartoon, or book starts the violence time after time. Imagine if us Catholics or Jews were to behave in the same manner.
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I think you’re impression has less to do with protests in the Muslim world against an anti-Islam this-or-that, than with the how often the media makes note of it.
 
dolphinlove said:
After the horrible protest we have recently had in Sydney, a few muslims have come out saying they are disgraced by the way ‘a few of the minority’ have carried on. Koodos to them I say.
However, we see in countries, especially Pakistan, not a few, but a LOT are burning American flags and people are dying from these protests.
Some muslims claim that this is not the real islam, but from what we are seeing, im not agreeing with them.
Can muslims, or anyone prove that islam is not as bad as the impression they are giving?
Click to expand...
The question is, where are you looking, or who are you watching?
 
TheAtheist said:
Didn’t your Messiah something about being overly conscietnous about motes in your neighbor’s eye…when there’s a plank stuck in your own? 😉
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Sure, but he was one of those long-haired hippie types. No one takes them seriously. :rolleyes:
 
Here’s something to think about. There was a poetess in Muhammad’s time who wrote verses decrying him and his religion. Muhammad ordered her death for this grave insult. Accordingly, one of his followers snuck into her home at night, where she was sleeping with her young children, and stabbed her to death. Muhammad commended him for his actions.

Now, when Christ was being beaten by the Roman soldiers, a far greater offense than a mere mocking poem, did He call out, “Disciples! Come here and slay these soldiers! If you cannot get them now, wait until they are alone in their homes and do not have their weapons!”

Muhammad also broke truces, and raided caravans for no reason other than booty. A Meccan caravan was attacked, but they did not intend to approach the Muslims, since try were merely traders. He also demanded that one-fifth of all booty gained in any raid was to be reserved for “Allah and His Prophet” (that is, him). The list goes on and on.

So when Muslims perform acts of war and terror, they are merely emulating their prophet. If the average Muslim fails to do this, they’re ignoring an integral part of their religion, not redefining it. And keep in mind that while the majority of Muslims do not actively practice terrorism, a huge number condone and support it. Half of Egyptians support al-Qaeda. Even in the west, in the UK, over a third of young Muslims believe apostasy should be punished by death, and 68% of all Muslims in the UK believe that insulting Islam should be illegal and punishable by law.

Food for thought.
 
Discuss the topic, not each other.
And tone down the rhetoric.
 
Once again, the problem with Islam’s ideology. But if you don’t believe me. Read the Quran.
 
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