Will the SSPX submit to the 5 Conditions?

[Sure]

What are your thoughts? …Not whether they should or should not, but will they actually do it.

I think if they do accept them, then discussions rapidly progress toward their reconciliation.

I think that if they do not accept them, things will grow very cold and clear statements identifying the schism will be forthcoming from the Vatican.

I do not think they will accept the conditions, but I hope that they do!

 

[bilop]

I think they will accept, b/c to refuse such generous conditions would make them look very bad, and could cause a split within their group.

However, I think it is still very like that talks would later break down before full reconciliation.

God Bless

 

[markadm]

I think they will accept too, not because it is logical (given past statements, it is not), but rather because so many good, yet unexpected things have happened under the current Pontificate.

 

[BrendanD]

I don’t think they will accept the offer as-is. Maybe they’ll add on some conditions of their own (lifting the excommunications, a statement that they were not in schism, I’m not sure precisely what they would want.)

 

[bilop]

I think they will accept too, not because it is logical (given past statements, it is not), but rather because so many good, yet unexpected things have happened under the current Pontificate.

Agreed. If they are thinking clearly, they have to realize that Pope Benedict is the best hope for moving the WHOLE Church back towards tradition. They should want to be part of that.

In Europe, especially, the SSPX could be a huge force in revitalizing the Church.

God Bless

 

[Spiller]

Conditions which result from the meeting of June 4, 2008, between Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos and Bishop Bernard Fellay

*"1. The commitment to a response proportionate to the generosity of the Pope. 2. The commitment to avoid every public intervention which does not respect the person of the Holy Father and which may be negative to ecclesial charity. 3. The commitment to avoid the claim to a Magisterium superior to the Holy Father and to not propose the Fraternity in contraposition to the Church. 4. The commitment to display the will to act honestly in full ecclesial charity and in respect for the authority of the Vicar of Christ. 5. The commitment to respect the date - fixed for the end of the month of June [2008] - to respond positively. This shall be a condition necessary and required as an immediate preparation for adhesion to accomplish full communion.

[Signed] Darío Card. Cas*trillón Hoyos"
Rome, June 4, 2008

---

Those five? No, I don’t think so. I don’t think the SSPX leadership wants to come Home. If they did, they would personally lose much of the limelight they have lived in for the past several years. It would be costly to return and then leave – financially and otherwise. They would also get hammered by worldwide public opinion if they signed the agreement AND THEN tried to stir things up from inside of the Church.

 

[Brendan]

They might be holding out for a few FSSP first round draft picks.

 

[Ghoti]

I tried searching the threads, i really don’t want to read through 900-odd posts…

Please, what are the 5 conditions?

 

[JuanCarlos]

I think the SSPX have reached an impasse; a fork in the road you can say. If they reject the Pope’s (generous) offer, the Pope will likely formally declare in no uncertain terms they are in schism. If they accept the Pope’s offer (God-willing btw), then unfortunately there will be hard-liners who will break off from the SSPX.

The argument of “necessity” is coming to a close- there are a myriad of Traditional societies in communion with the Church that are just as orthodox and traditional as the SSPX- the traditional sacraments and faith are no longer the exclusive domain of the SSPX.

 

[PrayforMallory]

I think the SSPX have reached an impasse; a fork in the road you can say. If they reject the Pope’s (generous) offer, the Pope will likely formally declare in no uncertain terms they are in schism. If they accept the Pope’s offer (God-willing btw), then unfortunately there will be hard-liners who will break off from the SSPX.

The argument of “necessity” is coming to a close- there are a myriad of Traditional societies in communion with the Church that are just as orthodox and traditional as the SSPX- the traditional sacraments and faith are no longer the exclusive domain of the SSPX.

If they don’t accept these conditions, they are lunatics. They want to be on the fringe.

They need to step back and realize that the traditional orders in communion with Rome are reforming things from within, and it’s working a hell of a lot better than the constant preaching about Vat II.

The gist of the Pope’s demands were, “Quit being jerks and give me the benefit of the doubt.” If they can’t see that, they are blind.

 

[Timothysis]

I don’t think they will accept the offer as-is. Maybe they’ll add on some conditions of their own (lifting the excommunications, a statement that they were not in schism, I’m not sure precisely what they would want.)

You may be correct, but they should realize that they are in a position to demand nothing. I think Pope Benedict is doing his best to settle things but if they (sspx) do not accept I think that you just may see a formal declaration of schism and harsh condemnations for anyone participating in their schism.

 

[ethelzguy]

They might be holding out for a few FSSP first round draft picks.

Hey, you’re cuttin’ in on my humor action!

Nah, they won’t accept. That would require eating too much crow, and accepting things that they have vehemently rejected for years.

Even if the leadership did, many of their “flock” wouldn’t, and could likely create another schismatic group.

 

[Jennifer_G]

I tried searching the threads, i really don’t want to read through 900-odd posts…

Please, what are the 5 conditions?

I was wondering the same, and googled it. Besides this thread coming up #2… here’s the 5 I found -

5 conditions

…
Conditions resulting from the 4 June 2008 meeting between Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos and Bishop Bernard Fellay:

1. The commitment to a proportionate response to the generosity of the Pope.
2. The commitment to avoid any public intervention that does not respect the person of the Holy Father and that could be negative for ecclesial charity.
3. The commitment to avoid the claim of a magisterium superior to the Holy Father and not to propose the fraternity as opposed to the Church.
4. The commitment to demonstrate the will to act honestly in full ecclesial charity and respect of the Vicar of Christ.
5. The commitment to respect the date - set at the end of the month of June - to respond positively. This will be a condition required and necessary as immediate preparation for the adhesion to have full communion (“come preparazione immediata all’adesione per avere la piena comunione”).

 

[ProVobis]

Nah, they won’t accept. That would require eating too much crow, and accepting things that they have vehemently rejected for years.

Speaking of eating crow, how would you feel if the Vatican took them back without any conditions?

Give them the same conditions they gave Hans Kung or Fr. Phleger, I say.

 

[ethelzguy]

Speaking of eating crow, how would you feel if the Vatican took them back without any conditions?

Give them the same conditions they gave Hans Kung or Fr. Phleger, I say.

That is up to the Vatican, not me. What they say, goes.

Fork in hand, but not likely to be using it.

 

[NicPais83]

It’s hard to say whether or not they’ll come back. I think that this is one of those times where you may not see a uniform response. Namely, a percentage of SSPX will accept, and a percentage will not. I’m curious as to what their return would mean for the FSSP; if they would get absorbed into the FSSP, or if we’d have two very similar groups instead.

Regardless of the outcome, I don’t think anyone who is not SSPX is against them coming home. As for the SSPX, I hope that they all want to come home. There is some real good that they could do within the Church, if in Full-Communion with Rome.

 

[BrendanD]

You may be correct, but they should realize that they are in a position to demand nothing. I think Pope Benedict is doing his best to settle things but if they (sspx) do not accept I think that you just may see a formal declaration of schism and harsh condemnations for anyone participating in their schism.

I don’t see that happening quite yet. The Pope and those close to him have so far avoided using the word “schism” when discussing the SSPX, although a number of people here consider all of their priests and parishioners schismatics anyway.

Hopefully at least some of the SSPX priests will be able to bring their chapels into proper standing with Rome, even if the SSPX organization as a whole isn’t able to come to an agreement.

 

[CradleCath]

I was wondering the same, and googled it. Besides this thread coming up #2… here’s the 5 I found -

5 conditions

I hope & pray that they’ll accept these generous conditions, but I don’t think they will. They haven’t given an inch before, when the offers to move toward reconciliation were made. I don’t think that they’ll cooperate unless the excommunications are lifted & they are assured that they won’t have to celebrate the Novus Ordo. They will have to, of course.

You all probably know this already, but the Pope wrote in the letter to the bishops, that accompanied SP., that ALL Catholic priests…while they are free to celebrate the Mass of 1962, must also celebrate the Novus Ordo. Can you see the SSPX Bishops celebrating the Novus Ordo?

Once again, I pray that they accept these conditions…but I’m not too hopeful.

 

[consumedconvert]

I agree that this is an impasse for the SSPX. Consider the consequences of the two outcomes:

1. SSPX returns to full canonically regular status by accepting the Pope’s generous offer. Most of the laity associated with the SSPX and most SSPX priests accept their newfound reconciliation with Rome, but some priests and faithful break off to start a schismatic organization or join other more radical groups like the SSPV.
2. SSPX lets the deadline pass, which, God forbid, it seems likely they will do. Rome waits a while (Rome always waits a while) for the situation to be fully digested before issuing decrees outlining the dangers of the SSPX and forbidding Catholics any formal contact with the organization, possibly even excommunicating all SSPX priests and perhaps even SSPX lay followers. A large group of moderates, who see the Pope’s offer for what it is and fear being out of communion with the Pope, disassociate from the SSPX and begin attending approved Masses, leading to greater attendence and demand for the EF.

What seems clear is that the SSPX stands to lose a good number of its followers either way.

If, God forbid, formal separation does finally come, I don’t believe anyone disinterested person could reasonably hold Rome responsible. Both JPII and BXVI have been more than patient and have reached out multiple times.

God’s will be done.

 

[BrendanD]

You all probably know this already, but the Pope wrote in the letter to the bishops, that accompanied SP., that ALL Catholic priests…while they are free to celebrate the Mass of 1962, must also celebrate the Novus Ordo. Can you see the SSPX Bishops celebrating the Novus Ordo?

Neither the FSSP or the ICKSP are required to say the Novus Ordo. Not even to concelebrate the Chrism Mass with their bishops.