Will the SSPX submit to the 5 Conditions?

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If they don’t accept this agreement,

They are too bitter to ever change anything.
 
bilop said:
Agreed. **If they are thinking clearly, they have to realize that Pope Benedict is the best hope for moving the WHOLE Church back towards tradition. They should want to be part of that.

In Europe, especially, the SSPX could be a huge force in revitalizing the Church.**

God Bless
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Exactly. 👍
 
BrendanD said:
Neither the FSSP or the ICKSP are required to say the Novus Ordo. Not even to concelebrate the Chrism Mass with their bishops.
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Not required per se, but they can’t reject if asked to as shown in E.D. documents and asked by Card. Hoyos in Nebraska just weeks ago.

The goal here is not fuzzy feelings and feeling like one. The goal is being in one of spirit, which we see isn’t going to happen anytime soon in my opinion.
 
Back in April…
Fr Michael Mary:
… we hold firmly to everything that has been consistently taught and practiced by the Church (and codified in books published before the Modernist influence of the Council) concerning faith, morals, divine worship, catechetics, priestly formation, and the institution of the Church.

But now we must ask ourselves if a glimmer of light has not begun to show through the clouds of confusion that for many years have darkened the sky of eternal Rome. For we now have a Pontiff, a successor of Peter, ready to allow us to adhere fully to this timeless tradition of the Church and its complete expression in Catholic life without apparent compromise. He seems ready to “let us do the experiment of Tradition” as Archbishop Lefebvre asked so many years ago…
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papastronsay.blogspot.com/2008/04/immaculate-heart-of-marypray-for-us.html

Fr Michael is a Transalpine Redemptorist, affliliated with the SSPX.

The concerns are well known. The battle has been fought. The only thing left is for the SSPX to accept that this mess can’t be fixed in one fell swoop. If they think a pope is going to clean house in an immediate and decisive manner, just like that, they are kidding themselves. It’s going to take time.

They can continue taking a stand for the sake of taking one, or they can move forward. This is their chance to wipe away the stigma of the excommunications and suspensions, and relieve the catholic laity of the stigma of disobedience they have thrust upon them because of their support of the SSPX.

They are good catholics and the Church needs them.
 
I_Believe said:
Back in April…

papastronsay.blogspot.com/2008/04/immaculate-heart-of-marypray-for-us.html

Fr Michael is a Transalpine Redemptorist, affliliated with the SSPX.

The concerns are well known. The battle has been fought. The only thing left is for the SSPX to accept that this mess can’t be fixed in one fell swoop. If they think a pope is going to clean house in an immediate and decisive manner, just like that, they are kidding themselves. It’s going to take time.

They can continue taking a stand for the sake of taking one, or they can move forward. This is their chance to wipe away the stigma of the excommunications and suspensions, and relieve the catholic laity of the stigma of disobedience they have thrust upon them because of their support of the SSPX.

They are good catholics and the Church needs them.
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I’ve been looking at some SSPX forums, and it seems like those people are actually taking pleasure in there being no agreement.

It’s like they don’t actually care about tradition and the Church, but just get this thrill out of being elitist and better than the “Novus Ordites.”

It’s ridiculous. If they don’t accept these conditions, well, they never will. They need to pull their heads out of their asses and quit worrying about the Third Secret of Fatima for a moment and be a little practical for a change.

If they don’t accept this ultimatum it will destroy the Society in the long term. Fellay needs to reign in the zealots and get to work providing TLMS for the people who need them. Their doctrinal concerns can still be voiced afterwards.

They all seem to want to delude themselves with this high drama, while most of us have to sit through these heterodox sermons in the mainstream in America.

Charlemagne is not going to rise up from the grave and restore tradition. People are.
 
PrayforMallory said:
If they don’t accept this ultimatum it will destroy the Society in the long term.
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How long-term?

We still have the Old Catholics – fractured as they are – as a result of Vatican I. We still have the Protestants – fractured as they are – almost 500 years after the Reformation.

Yes, Holy Mother Church will survive and triumph in the long run, but how many souls will be lost to schism?
 
Ghoti said:
How long-term?

We still have the Old Catholics – fractured as they are – as a result of Vatican I. We still have the Protestants – fractured as they are – almost 500 years after the Reformation.

Yes, Holy Mother Church will survive and triumph in the long run, but how many souls will be lost to schism?
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Who knows?

I’d never say some of the things being said about the Pope on some of these forums. It’s one thing to disagree. Another entirely to insult his person like that, especially when he’s extending a hand like this.

Too much of it is fantasy. Obsession with a martyrdom complex and a lot of bitterness.

What happened in the 80’s doesn’t matter. As for myself, I was 7 when Arch. Lefebvre was excommunicated. I’m only concerned with the future. All these people on forums demanding a papal apology, calling ICKSP and FSSP priests “characters” and **** like that, they are shooting themselves in the foot. It’s like they don’t want there to be a reconciliation. They just want Rome sacked for the hell of it.

We’re going to have tradition anyway. They can join and lead the way, or they can become irrelevant. It’s up to Fellay.
 
The SSPX members I know, good people and devout Catholics, nevertheless don’t see the issue as to whether they should be reconciled to Rome: they think of it as whether they can allow Rome to be reconciled to them. Although they aren’t techically sedevacantists, they really do think of themselves as the True Church, with the Modernist Church (Rome) having to ‘eat crow’ [what, BTW, is ‘crow’? This English writer doesn’t know], repent of all its nasty Vatican II beliefs and return to Tradition (always written with a capital T). That’s not going to happen.

I think, therefore, that there will be no reconciliation at this point. The future? Who knows. The Old Catholics and Protestants aren’t promising precedents - but the Donatists, Tertullianists, etc, hold out more hope. Still, it was hundreds of years before they were reconciled.
 
PrayforMallory said:
If they don’t accept this agreement,

They are too bitter to ever change anything.
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And you can pretty well count on that. Just look at the posts here! What do you think the response will be from the other “million or so” ?
 
As I pointed out on the last thread on this topic, Fellay has already rejected the idea, although I know that is subject to change.:rolleyes: He interprets them as the Vatican telling them to “Shut UP.”
 
ethelzguy said:
And you can pretty well count on that. Just look at the posts here! What do you think the response will be from the other “million or so” ?
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I can hope up until the last, even if I look like an idiot for doing so.

After this weekend, though, we’ll know where they stand.

The calling ICKSP and FSSP priests “characters” is too much. The Pope is just asking them to be civil and get over their martyrdom complexes.
 
Not bloody likely.
Some in the SSPX (and some in FSSP) question anything that happened after 1958, when Pius XII died.

I’m glad there are legit options available for those who prefer traditional liturgy. But they are conditioned on accepting the legitimacy of Vatican II, not necessarily all interpretations, etc.

Saw a story about FSSP chapel around here, when Pope ok’d use of old Latin Mass. Some quoted are absolutely against vernacular and want it abolished altogether. I cannot deny some NO masses around here have wacky things going on, but that has noting to do with vernacular.

I suspect some in FSSP still hold some hard-line views on salvation outside the church (they interpret it ablsolutely, you have to be a baptized Catholic or you burn in hell. A heresy known as Feeneyism).

Believe me, the liberal progressives are just as adamant and absolute about “the spirit of Vatican II.” You mention going to Latin Mass and they think you wacko.
 
Robster7 said:
Not bloody likely.
Some in the SSPX (and some in FSSP) question anything that happened after 1958, when Pius XII died.

I’m glad there are legit options available for those who prefer traditional liturgy. But they are conditioned on accepting the legitimacy of Vatican II, not necessarily all interpretations, etc.

Saw a story about FSSP chapel around here, when Pope ok’d use of old Latin Mass. Some quoted are absolutely against vernacular and want it abolished altogether. I cannot deny some NO masses around here have wacky things going on, but that has noting to do with vernacular.

I suspect some in FSSP still hold some hard-line views on salvation outside the church (they interpret it ablsolutely, you have to be a baptized Catholic or you burn in hell. A heresy known as Feeneyism).

Believe me, the liberal progressives are just as adamant and absolute about “the spirit of Vatican II.” You mention going to Latin Mass and they think you wacko.
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Name one.
 
Had they accepted, the SSPX would have been completely and totally subsumed by the Catholic Church, less though who wish to remain in heresy. People like Fellay would have went from the limelight in some circles to almost total obscurity. I don’t think that would have been acceptable to them.

If Fellay actually said:

Winona, Jun 26, 2008 / 05:30 pm (CNA).- Bishop Bernard Fellay, the leader of the Society of St. Pius X, has rejected the terms offered by the Vatican for rejoining the Catholic Church.* During a homily at one of his society’s seminaries on June 20, the schismatic bishop said that the five conditions for return were a message to “shut up.”***

I am very thankful they are not returning Home. The last thing the Church needs is another loose cannon.
 
I voted no.

The answer was already given by Bishop Fellay in letter #72.
This was given in response to the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum.
sspx.org/superior_generals_ltrs/sup_gen_ltr_72.pdf

They will not accept it because they missunderstand some things - but also hope they do accept for they will do wonders in the fold of the Church to correct this path taken after Vatican II.

Ken
 
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