C
Contarini
Guest
Fair enough. But a fortiori, since we don’t accept the Qur’an as divinely inspired, we don’t accept it as the literal Word of God!
For Christians, Jesus has this status.
Edwin
- Status
For Christians, Jesus has this status.
Edwin
S
Steven_John
Guest
AsSalum o Aleikum,
Brother I think i started this, no disrespect was intended in the description as i saw it. It was to help a poster see that they did not understand what another poster believed because he was not disrespecting the Quran.
Sorry if the choice of words was a problem for any one.
Blessings
T
tomarin
Guest
I agree 100%. We don’t want to start sounding like Karen Armstrong (to be fair I haven’t read her recent book, but I have heard her interviewed a few times on the radio and in print and she seems to exemplify this “religion of peace” stance). It’s an understandable error to make in arguing for a measure of fairness concerning Muslims in the climate we’re in but it’s also naive and often unhistorical. And it makes the same mistake that the self-described anti-jihadist people make, only in the other direction. I’m sorry if I gave the impression that I subscribed to this view. I did mean “normal” (which I put in scare quotes to indicate that it’s always problematic to ascribe normality to something as complex as a religion) in a statistical, observational sense.
A
Alcrusader
Guest
J
jakasaki
Guest
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Contarini,
I think we have to define our foreign policy…certainly I do not agree with powers within our country that exploit or manipulate other countries right to self-determination any more than I wish outside forces do the same to ours.
There is also the reality of salvation history…I was told as a child by the nuns that it is in Scripture that some day the Jews would return to the Holy Land. Priests are saying we are seeing great events beginning to unfold before our eyes.
Throughout my life I have witnessed the lying and distortion and manipulation amongs people by communism to fight one another. I know as well the Zionists are atheists and nationalists, and priests tell me after coming back that those who have the worst behavior in Israel are oftentimes the Jews themselves…how they remember the Holocaust but do not extend the same humanity to others, how Christians are put in the middle as a buffer between Jews and Muslims, whose relationship is not really of religion but of a fratricidal history going back thousands of years.
I am very aware of the American fundamentalist support of Israel…you support Israel, you are blessed by God…they tell me that is not their concern…but I see Judaism as the foundation of Christianity, work among highly educated Jews, see the greatest cohesion among their families here, and have great respect for them.
I know American foreign policy gains perception that it is always siding with the tin pot dictators who are opposing the encroachment of Marxism. And there is also the reality of the developing countries…that moderate and humane leadership is rare and not developed…so for America – the great enemy of the world – if the only ones who are standing up to Marxism are tin pot dictators…that is all they have to work with. We can’t win.
You have countries such as those in Africa that the common people are just about the same as they were over 30 years ago…little sense of hygiene, superstitions, education…little growth of awareness among the native people…few individuals able to build bridges with the rest of the world…the native Catholic Africans came to Rome this past year…and what they are seeking from the rest of the world is help in health, education, and infrastructure – what has been going on for so many years – and to help them develop their own resources, that they do indeed have much to contribute to the global market. This class of people need our support but they are a minority of the population. And you have the forces of power and exploitation prevalent at the ports ready to confiscate American and other humanitarian aide just as what happened in Iraq.
So it would be good and helpful if we could all further define what exactly is our foreign policies…it is only just and fair…and I know that the American military told israel not to use its property in various situations, and the country did…but it is also under assault.
I agree with John Paul II’s assessment of Israel…the only way to peace is tolerance and working together…to make Jerusalem once and for all an international city…it is the fundamentalism and fanaticism we need to pray for.
I think we have to define our foreign policy…certainly I do not agree with powers within our country that exploit or manipulate other countries right to self-determination any more than I wish outside forces do the same to ours.
There is also the reality of salvation history…I was told as a child by the nuns that it is in Scripture that some day the Jews would return to the Holy Land. Priests are saying we are seeing great events beginning to unfold before our eyes.
Throughout my life I have witnessed the lying and distortion and manipulation amongs people by communism to fight one another. I know as well the Zionists are atheists and nationalists, and priests tell me after coming back that those who have the worst behavior in Israel are oftentimes the Jews themselves…how they remember the Holocaust but do not extend the same humanity to others, how Christians are put in the middle as a buffer between Jews and Muslims, whose relationship is not really of religion but of a fratricidal history going back thousands of years.
I am very aware of the American fundamentalist support of Israel…you support Israel, you are blessed by God…they tell me that is not their concern…but I see Judaism as the foundation of Christianity, work among highly educated Jews, see the greatest cohesion among their families here, and have great respect for them.
I know American foreign policy gains perception that it is always siding with the tin pot dictators who are opposing the encroachment of Marxism. And there is also the reality of the developing countries…that moderate and humane leadership is rare and not developed…so for America – the great enemy of the world – if the only ones who are standing up to Marxism are tin pot dictators…that is all they have to work with. We can’t win.
You have countries such as those in Africa that the common people are just about the same as they were over 30 years ago…little sense of hygiene, superstitions, education…little growth of awareness among the native people…few individuals able to build bridges with the rest of the world…the native Catholic Africans came to Rome this past year…and what they are seeking from the rest of the world is help in health, education, and infrastructure – what has been going on for so many years – and to help them develop their own resources, that they do indeed have much to contribute to the global market. This class of people need our support but they are a minority of the population. And you have the forces of power and exploitation prevalent at the ports ready to confiscate American and other humanitarian aide just as what happened in Iraq.
So it would be good and helpful if we could all further define what exactly is our foreign policies…it is only just and fair…and I know that the American military told israel not to use its property in various situations, and the country did…but it is also under assault.
I agree with John Paul II’s assessment of Israel…the only way to peace is tolerance and working together…to make Jerusalem once and for all an international city…it is the fundamentalism and fanaticism we need to pray for.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Back to Sharia Law…what I am seeing in the insistance of building a mosque at this site is indeed triumphalism.
Islam has always taken down churches, hindu temples, synagogues replacing them with their own. I saw a very bad video of Muslims running across the top of a Orthodox church in Kosovo, standing up on the cross, rocking it until it broken and tossing it down to the crowd…this in 2005.
The imam in NYC is using the name Cordoba…because it was a great time for Muslims and interfaith relations and culture. I did a search this morning to see what life was like for Christians and Jews…I came to
bbc,co.uk/religion/islam/history/spain_1.shtml
These are my notes I took:
“The Jews and Christians were not forced to live in ghettos or other places, they were dhimmis but not slaves. They were allowed to follow their faith. They were not forced to convert or die under Muslim rule. They were not banned from particular means of earning a living, often taking jobs shunned by Muslims – tanning or butchering, also banking and working with gold and silver…They could take on civil service jobs under Muslim rule, could contribute to society and culture.”
But, “Christians and Jews had to acknowledge Islamic superiority and power. They had to pay the Jizya tax, sometimes at higher rates. They were to avoid blasphemy. They were not allowed to try to convert Muslims.”
I think of the Holocaust when I read this…"‘The Jews and Christians had to wear special badges’, had restrictions on clothing, they were restricted from building churches and synagogues (which is apparent throughout the Muslim world, but demand from us their rights to the point of suing us or contriving situations to bring to court)…Jews and Christians cannot carry weapons, cannot receive any inheritance from Muslims, cannot bequeath anything to a Muslim, not own a Muslim slave. A Dhimmi man may not marry a Muslim woman, but a Muslim man may marry a Christian or Jewish woman …(perpetuation of the Muslim numbers)…"
“In court, a Dhimmi can give no evidence in Islamic court, and lower compensation for a dhimmi for the same injury done a Muslim.”
"Bell ringing, processions, or chanting too loudly in public was frowned upon. The no-Muslims were at the bottom of society.
In 12th Century Spain, “A Muslim must not massage a Jew or Christian, nor throw away his refuse nor clean his latrines. The Jews and Christians are better fitted for such trades, since they are …of those who are vile.” “Christians could not build houses taller than Muslims…could not carry a Bible in public…”
In the end, it was infighting among Muslim leaders that brought down its defending and sustaining character.
To pick the name Cordoba for the mosque is also most inflammatory for Catholics because it is the same tactic of showing victory and dominance…over a horrific crime against humanity in the name of Islam.
So for Islam to promote Sharia, and also in regards to women’s rights…recently a Muslim man got away with raping his wife with an American judge following Sharia…I cannot see such values and beliefs and practices coinciding with our American Constitution and the lingering cultural values of our Judeo-Christian culture.
Subsequently, when I see muslims coming here wearing desert clothing and not integrating like many other Muslims…hearing them promote Sharia…I have the need to defend our country and its values. I share these concerns in the same light as seeing our country’s moral standards fall very much in the past 30 years as well in regards to the sexual revolution, the use of profanity and blasphemy in our modern culture, the self-degradation of women.
The Christians are the greatest block in our American culture, but I see the fracturing of the Word of God through Sola Scriptura and the lapse of Catholics leaving the moral integrity of their own faith as causing this ceasing of Christianity.
For many reasons, I pray for the unification of our faith and the ceasing of our own relativism and fundamentalism.
Islam has always taken down churches, hindu temples, synagogues replacing them with their own. I saw a very bad video of Muslims running across the top of a Orthodox church in Kosovo, standing up on the cross, rocking it until it broken and tossing it down to the crowd…this in 2005.
The imam in NYC is using the name Cordoba…because it was a great time for Muslims and interfaith relations and culture. I did a search this morning to see what life was like for Christians and Jews…I came to
bbc,co.uk/religion/islam/history/spain_1.shtml
These are my notes I took:
“The Jews and Christians were not forced to live in ghettos or other places, they were dhimmis but not slaves. They were allowed to follow their faith. They were not forced to convert or die under Muslim rule. They were not banned from particular means of earning a living, often taking jobs shunned by Muslims – tanning or butchering, also banking and working with gold and silver…They could take on civil service jobs under Muslim rule, could contribute to society and culture.”
But, “Christians and Jews had to acknowledge Islamic superiority and power. They had to pay the Jizya tax, sometimes at higher rates. They were to avoid blasphemy. They were not allowed to try to convert Muslims.”
I think of the Holocaust when I read this…"‘The Jews and Christians had to wear special badges’, had restrictions on clothing, they were restricted from building churches and synagogues (which is apparent throughout the Muslim world, but demand from us their rights to the point of suing us or contriving situations to bring to court)…Jews and Christians cannot carry weapons, cannot receive any inheritance from Muslims, cannot bequeath anything to a Muslim, not own a Muslim slave. A Dhimmi man may not marry a Muslim woman, but a Muslim man may marry a Christian or Jewish woman …(perpetuation of the Muslim numbers)…"
“In court, a Dhimmi can give no evidence in Islamic court, and lower compensation for a dhimmi for the same injury done a Muslim.”
"Bell ringing, processions, or chanting too loudly in public was frowned upon. The no-Muslims were at the bottom of society.
In 12th Century Spain, “A Muslim must not massage a Jew or Christian, nor throw away his refuse nor clean his latrines. The Jews and Christians are better fitted for such trades, since they are …of those who are vile.” “Christians could not build houses taller than Muslims…could not carry a Bible in public…”
In the end, it was infighting among Muslim leaders that brought down its defending and sustaining character.
To pick the name Cordoba for the mosque is also most inflammatory for Catholics because it is the same tactic of showing victory and dominance…over a horrific crime against humanity in the name of Islam.
So for Islam to promote Sharia, and also in regards to women’s rights…recently a Muslim man got away with raping his wife with an American judge following Sharia…I cannot see such values and beliefs and practices coinciding with our American Constitution and the lingering cultural values of our Judeo-Christian culture.
Subsequently, when I see muslims coming here wearing desert clothing and not integrating like many other Muslims…hearing them promote Sharia…I have the need to defend our country and its values. I share these concerns in the same light as seeing our country’s moral standards fall very much in the past 30 years as well in regards to the sexual revolution, the use of profanity and blasphemy in our modern culture, the self-degradation of women.
The Christians are the greatest block in our American culture, but I see the fracturing of the Word of God through Sola Scriptura and the lapse of Catholics leaving the moral integrity of their own faith as causing this ceasing of Christianity.
For many reasons, I pray for the unification of our faith and the ceasing of our own relativism and fundamentalism.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
(I went to a Discalced Carmelite meeting…the topic was The Little Flower, St. Therese of Liseiux.
The priest told us she was no wimp. She also supported the French military and her country.
People should also read St. Catherine’s writings from ‘The Dialogue’ on the Church…she was one tough lady and ‘told it like it was’…no mincing of words.)
Defend your Christian heritage and way of life. I have no bullets or guns or knives, but the rosary.
How the Church needs Mary and not PR.)
The priest told us she was no wimp. She also supported the French military and her country.
People should also read St. Catherine’s writings from ‘The Dialogue’ on the Church…she was one tough lady and ‘told it like it was’…no mincing of words.)
Defend your Christian heritage and way of life. I have no bullets or guns or knives, but the rosary.
How the Church needs Mary and not PR.)
J
jctorres
Guest
It will depend upon whether or not non-Muslims permit Sharia Law to take effect.
billionbibles.org/sharia-europe.html
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1173779/EU-judges-want-Sharia-law-applied-British-courts.html
As non-Muslim populations decline in what were once Judeo-Christian countries, and Muslim populations increase, then the natural outcome will be that non-Muslims will become dhimmi, and dhimmitude will take place.
volokh.com/2010/07/23/cultural-defense-accepted-as-to-nonconsensual-sex-in-new-jersey-trial-court-rejected-on-appeal/
billionbibles.org/sharia-europe.html
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1173779/EU-judges-want-Sharia-law-applied-British-courts.html
As non-Muslim populations decline in what were once Judeo-Christian countries, and Muslim populations increase, then the natural outcome will be that non-Muslims will become dhimmi, and dhimmitude will take place.
volokh.com/2010/07/23/cultural-defense-accepted-as-to-nonconsensual-sex-in-new-jersey-trial-court-rejected-on-appeal/
D
dolphinlove
Guest
Wrong answer!
its the verbatim speech of an, and i do use this word loosly…angel…
But as Jesus warned us
2 cor 11:14 There is nothing astonishing in this; even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
T
traillius
Guest
I don’t know how likely this is, but in America at least, the first amendment theoretically applies. Is anyone surprised, by the way, that a judge said sharia law allows rape without criminal culapility on a wife, in certain circumstances.
Thirty Years ago, 9 judges said Abortion was a right protected by the 14th amendment. Just another case of unaccountable judges helping to destroy society with rulings based on their own personal whims.
Thirty Years ago, 9 judges said Abortion was a right protected by the 14th amendment. Just another case of unaccountable judges helping to destroy society with rulings based on their own personal whims.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
I also wonder if there is a correlation with Islamicists living in America who want Sharia law,
including Americans who support abortion and do not value the sanctity of human life,
and those who totally disregard the millions upon millions who died in the Soviet Union murdered by their own people, the millions in China, Cambodia, Viet Nam, areas of the Eastern Block, the millions in Mozambique under the name of Communism,
vs the alleged millions slaughtered by Americans, while America has given more humanitarian aid than any of these countries, both Marxist and Muslim. And much of the billions in aid to Iraq were lost to the Russians…
This is the real gist of the issue. People must discriminate and understand their sources.
There is a great cover-up of the pogroms committed by both the Marxists and Islamicists in the past century starting with the Young Turk massacre of 1.5 million Armenian Christians…and the burning to the ground of Smyrna…while American ships stood by doing nothing…
In this instance, America aided and abetted Turkey…
Do not tolerate evil or make excuses for it…whether it be American evil – we are the only ones to use the atomic bomb…or any other country.
including Americans who support abortion and do not value the sanctity of human life,
and those who totally disregard the millions upon millions who died in the Soviet Union murdered by their own people, the millions in China, Cambodia, Viet Nam, areas of the Eastern Block, the millions in Mozambique under the name of Communism,
vs the alleged millions slaughtered by Americans, while America has given more humanitarian aid than any of these countries, both Marxist and Muslim. And much of the billions in aid to Iraq were lost to the Russians…
This is the real gist of the issue. People must discriminate and understand their sources.
There is a great cover-up of the pogroms committed by both the Marxists and Islamicists in the past century starting with the Young Turk massacre of 1.5 million Armenian Christians…and the burning to the ground of Smyrna…while American ships stood by doing nothing…
In this instance, America aided and abetted Turkey…
Do not tolerate evil or make excuses for it…whether it be American evil – we are the only ones to use the atomic bomb…or any other country.
M
Mike2010
Guest
This is from a previous thread awhile back:
IF this is true, we should be worried. Let us not be ignorant.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
I just received Dr Hammond’s ‘The Killing Fields of Mozambique’, documenting Marxist atrocities that occurred in the interior of the Province of Zambezia I once served. We only read about Renamo atrocities in the USA…nothing of the Marxists…I left there in 1975…
We hear and read and see the atrocities of the Nazis…but what about those in the Soviet Union or China???
Why don’t the Islamicists attack these two countries? Because they know the retribution towards them will be harsh. China would go after their generations of descendants…I read this conversation on a Lebanese Muslim site…why the Muslims are not going after Russia and China, in spite of their atrocities…because they are violent as well. Muslims would encounter pogroms done to them.
Case in point…some Islamicists attacked a Soviet site. The Soviets found the transgressors. Their remains were hacked up and placed at the doorsteps of their homes.
So what are the exact casualties of the millions Americans have killed…? I know we have committed atrocities and injustices, and we are the only country to have used The Bomb…
It is an ongoing problem with our leftist media.
We hear and read and see the atrocities of the Nazis…but what about those in the Soviet Union or China???
Why don’t the Islamicists attack these two countries? Because they know the retribution towards them will be harsh. China would go after their generations of descendants…I read this conversation on a Lebanese Muslim site…why the Muslims are not going after Russia and China, in spite of their atrocities…because they are violent as well. Muslims would encounter pogroms done to them.
Case in point…some Islamicists attacked a Soviet site. The Soviets found the transgressors. Their remains were hacked up and placed at the doorsteps of their homes.
So what are the exact casualties of the millions Americans have killed…? I know we have committed atrocities and injustices, and we are the only country to have used The Bomb…
It is an ongoing problem with our leftist media.
A
Alcrusader
Guest
Alcrusader;6972687:
okey
A
Alcrusader
Guest
You see why I am warning you of not committing the same errors as our leaders and parents in our country did…
Soon if you are not gonna stand up against the coming Anti-Christ evil, you gonna wake up in a country like Lebanon or Even KSA… with continuous Jihad wars (Holy Wars of Islam )…
S
Steven_John
Guest
A
Alcrusader
Guest
A
Alcrusader
Guest
S
Steven_John
Guest
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