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Brazzy
Guest
I know that Catholicism teaches that Catholics who die in a state of mortal sin will go to hell, but how do other Christians who do not believe in Confession make it to Heaven?
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teachccd
Guest
God is infinitely merciful and infinitely just. They go to heaven as we all do: Through the redemptive action of Christ and how they followed Him to the best of their ablity. Through what the Church teaches as invincible ignorance they may never come to understand the Sacraments though they are saved through them (since the sacraments are an encounter with Christ himself) whether they know it or not. To be concise, God judges our hearts and He knows our heart better than we know ourselves…teachccd
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LilyM
Guest
One means of forgiveness open to non-Catholics which the Catechism discusses is what is called Perfect Contrition (being sorry for your sins purely out of love of God and not just fear of hell or any other reason).
Such perfect contrition obtains forgiveness of mortal sins, and while in the case of Catholics it must be accompanied by a sincere resolve to confess as soon as possible, for non-Catholics, for whom such confession isn’t possible, it’d do the trick without such a resolve.
Such perfect contrition obtains forgiveness of mortal sins, and while in the case of Catholics it must be accompanied by a sincere resolve to confess as soon as possible, for non-Catholics, for whom such confession isn’t possible, it’d do the trick without such a resolve.
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bilop
Guest
I think that is a little broad.God is infinitely merciful and infinitely just. They go to heaven as we all do: Through the redemptive action of Christ and how they followed Him to the best of their ablity. Through what the Church teaches as invincible ignorance they may never come to understand the Sacraments though they are saved through them (since the sacraments are an encounter with Christ himself) whether they know it or not. To be concise, God judges our hearts and He knows our heart better than we know ourselves…teachccd
It is quite likely that some/many Christians who die in a state of mortal sin DIDN’T follow Christ to the best of their abilities.
Invincible ignorance is not really open to Christians, it is for those who don’t know about Christ. Christians have Christ’s teachings to guide them. They can commit many mortal sins that are not specific disciplines of the Church: murder, adultery, fornication, theft, blasphemy, all the 10 commandment sins and all the natural law sins. All Christians are bound by these teachings.
Christians who commit serious sins and don’t have access to the sacraments need to rely on perfect contrition for salvation. It’s one of the tragedies of the Reformation that so many are likely denied salvation b/c they don’t have recourse to the sacraments.
God bless
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goofyjim
Guest
Just my two cents but I really don’t get how we know anyone is going to hell or heaven. Only God knows that and for us to try to say we do is simple speculation. Some of us may be in for a few surprises.
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Julianna
Guest
Exactly Jim…
I don’t know…and you don’t either.
I don’t know…and you don’t either.
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teachccd
Guest
Where did you get that invincible ignorance is not open to Christians?? And how is where I leave judgment up to God a broad statement??
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bilop
Guest
I may have misread your post, but it seemed like you were saying they all go to heaven b/c they are ignorant of Church teachings.
If I misinterpreted, I apologize.
God Bless
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thistle
Guest
That is not correct and the Church certainly does not teach this.
What you have said is exactly the argument Protestants use against confessing to a priest. They say there is no need.
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larry85704
Guest
Seems like there is much interest in mortal sin, masturbation and going to hell. One thing is very clear to me, God decides. I was always taught that nobody knows if you are going to heaven or hell.
So why is it so popular a topic? Well, it is easy to understand why masturbation is such a common topic, isn’t it? But lets consider mortal sin. Suppose you commit a sin, and you think it is a mortal sin. This isn’t very hard to do. If you are smart and read the catechism it is easy to think many things are mortal sins. Now since you are a mortal sinner, you want company. So you want everybody to be a mortal sinner.
Or how about the line of thought that I might be bad, but I am not as bad as somebody else. God will surely take mercy on me before the other guy.
Catholics are fixated on sin. Certainly not all of them, but many are. It is one of the failures of the Church. For many years, and in some extremely conservative Catholic Churches today, priests preach about sin, hell and damnation. Rome has actually told the church not to preach the hellfire and damnation sermons that used to be so popular.
People are stupid, or ignorant, but not bad. If a person commits a sin it may be out of pain, or ignorance. Doesn’t have to be because they are bad.
Example, today we have a society that makes dating and marriage very difficult. At least staying married. Now ask yourself, what are you doing to help that? The church is very dependent on family and marriage working. So many people that are not married really want to be. Ever sit down with them and help them get a date with a nice person? Does it ever occur to you how lonely they are and how sad. I bet if we helped more there would be less pain, and less sin.
God bless you all
So why is it so popular a topic? Well, it is easy to understand why masturbation is such a common topic, isn’t it? But lets consider mortal sin. Suppose you commit a sin, and you think it is a mortal sin. This isn’t very hard to do. If you are smart and read the catechism it is easy to think many things are mortal sins. Now since you are a mortal sinner, you want company. So you want everybody to be a mortal sinner.
Or how about the line of thought that I might be bad, but I am not as bad as somebody else. God will surely take mercy on me before the other guy.
Catholics are fixated on sin. Certainly not all of them, but many are. It is one of the failures of the Church. For many years, and in some extremely conservative Catholic Churches today, priests preach about sin, hell and damnation. Rome has actually told the church not to preach the hellfire and damnation sermons that used to be so popular.
People are stupid, or ignorant, but not bad. If a person commits a sin it may be out of pain, or ignorance. Doesn’t have to be because they are bad.
Example, today we have a society that makes dating and marriage very difficult. At least staying married. Now ask yourself, what are you doing to help that? The church is very dependent on family and marriage working. So many people that are not married really want to be. Ever sit down with them and help them get a date with a nice person? Does it ever occur to you how lonely they are and how sad. I bet if we helped more there would be less pain, and less sin.
God bless you all
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GratefulSoul
Guest
I find it interesting that some of the earliest church fathers embraced the idea of “universal reconcilliation”, i.e. that Christ’s atonement covered every sin of every sinner and that, after the temporary punishment/purification of Hell, all souls will ulitmately be reconciled to Him. The idea is that since God cannot fail in His desire to bring all to Him, that Hell will not retain the condemned forever and God will vanquish all remnants of sin from the universe.
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Newbie2
Guest
There’s another rather large Apologetics thread on confessing directly to God i.e. that one does not need to confess to a priest that the OP may find interesting.
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puzzleannie
Guest
wrong, the Church teaches anyone who dies in a state of unrepented mortal sin risks damnation, and they cannot be in that state without full knowledge, grave matter and free will consent, and having chosen hell in the particular judgement when they come face to face with God at the moment of death, are given full knowledge to make their choice, and do so with free will. All who die experience this particular judgment, all are subject to God’s justice and mercy equally.
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