Will voting for Liberals lower poverty, unemployment and the deficit?

[10gr8kids]

[bibledrb]2 chronicles 7:14[/bibledrb]

This is what I think will help lower poverty, unemployment and the deficit.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Yes we are… But we can not fulfill our obligation to do this by voting for someone who promises to take other peoples money and do it for us

That’s the 16 trillion dollar answer right there.

In my conclusion, most people become liberal, democrat, marxists or socialists (ie support big government) because they think they will get more.

It’s the same reason why more and more Greeks are now turning to the Nazi Party.

The idea that they are doing it for someone else’s benefit is a sheer laugh and even an outright lie most of the time.

Those who REALLY want to help will look at what they can do themselves without worrying so much about what their neighbor has. They may solicit a neighbor to give by charitable means, but I don’t think it is very Christian to use the force of government to take from others.

 

[mary_bobo]

Isn’t war and killing just as intrinsically evil as abortion? I mean, abortion is killing and war is killing, where do we draw a distinction? Please do not construe this as me condoning abortion in any way, I do not.

Why is there not more pressure on Catholics to vote for Politicians who support peace? We have been a very warring country (the US) throughout our history, and I think a person would be hard pressed to convince the general public that all of them were just wars. I am sure that there are true passivists among us to whom no war would be just no matter what. But the church does not teach that war is an intrinsic evil as is abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality (acted upon), fetal stem cell research and cloning.

Consider the fact that these wars are directly linked to why we are in so much debt. Our country is so much in debt now not only because of wars but because we have spent too much with money we do not have. Programs like Social Security were begun to help people in their retirement years, but they were never intended to replace what a person does for himself and his family in this reguard. And instead of setting this money aside as promised, our government has spent into it. And in establishing our “poverty programs” such as the War on Poverty, we have only increased this scurge and caused too many of our people to lose any modicum of self-reliance that they had in the past. I have a hard time believing God enjoys watching us use the he has given us (knowledge, science, technology) to kill and to harm each other. So much of the technology we use is either violent or frivolous. Think of how many world problems we might be able to solved if we used our technological innovativeness to solve world hunger instead of giving us atom bombs and facebook?

 

[SuperLuigi]

Sadly, Conservative politicians don’t have an urban agenda that sufficiently addresses the needs of the poor. So, really the choice is “dumb or dumber”.

That’s just another “they’re all the same” talking point to keep people voting democrat

If inner cities would drop their overzealous regulations and high taxes, that wouldn’t be a problem.

Conservatives DO have an urban agenda, but what works for people in urban areas also works the same for people in rural and suburban areas as well.

But if Blacks and the academic elite who fall into those districts vote based on tradition, race or entitlements like so-called “gay marriage” and free contraception, well, the results will show when those candidates make policy and they have.

That stubbornness, pride and lack of humility is what is bearing fruitless results and it will continue to do so.

Conservative politicians need to actually answer people’s concerns to questions like, "so what’s going to happen to me if my aid is cut off

First of all, most conservatives campaigned on the issue of making social security and medicare/medicaid solvent. That means cutting spending in other areas, such as funding universities to teach utterly useless courses, farm subsidies for the rich and for those who just want a hobby farm and want 6 months of the year off, and crony union and CEO bailouts.

Necessary aid won’t be for much longer and some liberals don’t even think there is a debt or financial problem and they really think they’ve found the proverbial money tree by printing money.

If nothing else is done, one of two things will happen:

1. You simply won’t get your entitlement
2. You’ll get it, but it won’t be worth the paper it’s printed on.

That’s what inflation does.

and there are no businesses in the area to hire people like me?"

You have some responsibility to go to area where you find a job. I suspect most Americans consider this first when the decide were to live.

‘Let the free market work’ isn’t a sufficient response if your ration from the government is cut off and you aren’t able to work or don’t have job skills for the modern economy. It would be devastating to most cities if there was an even larger homeless population and still inadequate services for this population.

If the American people have job security, like they did under Reagen, then they have no problem giving to the poor or paying some more in taxes.

Reagen’s free market economics doubled the revenue into the government.

Most inner cities that have these problems are the result of electing democrats to city council and mayor.

In a lot of cases, these politicians raise taxes left and right to the point where businesses can’t operate and they leave.

That’s the free market and it’s global in nature.

Then these politicians who shout about how much they “care” then go to Florida and retire in their 50s or 60s where they are exempt from their own tax increases.

But hey—if people want to keep electing them because of tradition, race or “legitimate rape” comments by the opposition, that’s fine by them.

They’re more than happy to take your money and retire somewhere warm and sunny.

 

[Al_Moritz]

You have some responsibility to go to area where you find a job. I suspect most Americans consider this first when the decide were to live.

As if that were so easy for everyone. Many Americans can’t, due to the housing crisis. The crisis has immobilized America; many can’t sell their house without ruining their finances and thus cannot move to another place.

 

[ricmat]

This is true, so why do you allow yourself to justify your clearly conservative ideologies with God? The Republican party is hardly the “Catholic” party…

We are called to actively seek peace, help the poor, heal the sick. Am I wrong?

There is no “Catholic” party that I’m aware of. But who is attacking Catholicism right now? Not the Republicans. Who is attacking God right now? Not the Republicans. Who is turning sexual morality upside down right now? Not the Republicans. Who is pushing the idea that God did not create man, but rather man eventually evolved and then created God? Not the Republicans. Who is pushing gay marriage? Not the Republicans.

I just spent the last 9 days away from home helping take care of my sister in law who is in grave medical condition. And I spend 30-40 hours a week volunteering at our local Catholic school. The area I live in is overwhelmingly populated with low/lowest possible income folks (as is our school). So what’s the Democrats solution to these sorts of problems?

Tell me, in the Democrat utopia, how much merit is gained in the economy of salvation by the government because it is “generous” to the poor? Likewise, how much merit is gained by those who vote to take everyone else’s money to give to the poor?

How much merit is gained by spending money you don’t have and bankrupting the country? Obama added more to the debt than all previous presidents COMBINED. You can’t blame that on Bush.

You must make a ton of money, because only those in the very upper echelon are only now just beginning to be taxed more than the rest of the population, including the upper-middle and middle classes. Did the Lord not say “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven”?

Our total household income last year was less than $40K. And this year it will be a lot less because my wife was laid off at the end of 2012.

It is indeed hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, but just as hard for a poor man who is puts a desire for more government money above a desire for God. I know many rich people who are not greedy and use their money for good things, and I know many poor people who are greedy beyond all reason.

How exactly do you expect a solution to the perpetual, epidemic problem of poverty throughout the world? Start more wars so we can keep the economy going?

Not to mention, our armies are almost exclusively filled with those in the lower echelon of income. Who benefits?

To you, “poor” seems to be some kind of curse. It’s not. My wife was born in a 3rd world country and literally had no running water, electricity, telephone, etc. She was happy even though she was poor. She didn’t know she was poor, because everybody else wasn’t much better off. Her family all lives now in the US, and are well off, but very unhappy.

The real problem is envy. Envy won the last US election. There are truly very very few poor people in the US, but somehow they were convinced that if somebody else has more than they do, that it’s unfair, and the government must step in.

Blessed are the poor. Do you know why? Because they’re forced to depend on God, which is good. Dependence on the government is bad. Why do you see it as good?

 

[estesbob]

You must make a ton of money, because only those in the very upper echelon are only now just beginning to be taxed more than the rest of the population, including the upper-middle and middle classes. Did the Lord not say “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven”?

And you know this becuase?

How exactly do you expect a solution to the perpetual, epidemic problem of poverty throughout the world? Start more wars so we can keep the economy going?

How about encouraging job creation by ending the overregulation and overtaxation of business?

Not to mention, our armies are almost exclusively filled with those in the lower echelon of income. Who benefits?

Evidently they do since they volunteered for service

The Republican party is NOT the Catholic party, nor is the Democratic party.

Nobody said it was. OTH it is not the party that promotes unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand, homosexual marriage and forcing employers like myself to pay for contraception and abortificants for my employees.

Or as Cardinal Burke put it:

At this point, the Democratic Party risks transforming itself definitively into a “party of death” due to its choices on bioethical issues, as Ramesh Ponnuru wrote in his book "The Party of Death: The Democrats, the Media, the Courts and the Disregard for Human Life."And I say this with a heavy heart, because we all know that the Democrats were the party that helped our Catholic immigrant …*

 

[yppop]

This is true, so why do you allow yourself to justify your clearly conservative ideologies with God? The Republican party is hardly the “Catholic” party…

We are called to actively seek peace, help the poor, heal the sick. Am I wrong?

Hi Tim,
This is an interesting quote because it emphasizes two diametrically opposed views of social justice. The first part implies that the conservative approach is not associated with the second part, namely that conservative politics is not associated with the “call” to actively seek peace, help the poor, and heal the sick. Whether or not that is true depends on who “we” are.

Will Durant in his 11 volume masterpiece, “The Story of Civilization” addresses the question of why Christ appeared in the affairs of man when He did. Durant provides a plausible answer with the following quote:

“He (Christ) resembled Caesar only in taking his stand with the lower class, and in the quality of mercy; otherwise what a world of outlook, character, and interests separated them! Caesar hoped to reform men by changing institutions and laws; Christ wished to remake institutions and laws by changing men." Vol. III Caesar and Christ, pg 562

What this quote implies philosophically is that Christianity must be implemented mainly through the good works of individuals and not through the actions of government. I am a life-long Democrat that orders my life through my Catholic religion before my political status. Consequently I vote for few of the current breed of Democratic candidates not only on moral grounds (abortion, gay marriage, etc. ) but on philosophical grounds (the enslavement of the underclass to the dependency of hand outs). Besides there have been few Democrats to vote for in the last fifty years, not since the Henry Wallace wing of the party capture it in the 1960’s and installed the Liberal elite as the party leaders. Historically, Liberals are not Democrats.

Yppop

 

[Charlemagne_II]

The liberals might lower poverty by government handouts. They will not do much for unemployment and will likely increase the deficit. What has to be remembered is that liberals, if they ever solved any of these problems, would be out of business.

So what is their motive to solve them?

 

[ProVobis]

…There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

A soldier-soldier war might be justified but I believe all bets are off when pregnant women, the elderly, and other innocent civilians are treated as “collateral damage.” Even in the U.S. killing a pregnant woman is seen as double homicide.

 

[Zosimus41]

We know the answer as far a lowering abortion

Free health care started with a couple trillion dollars and counting.
Close off the coal industry will cost everyone who chooses to turn on a light bulb more than it ever has.
Gas was 1.85 a gallon four years ago.

Liberals = Big goverment
Big goverment=Higher taxes+less spending-small businesses will crumble.

 

[ProVobis]

There are truly very very few poor people in the US, but somehow they were convinced that if somebody else has more than they do, that it’s unfair, and the government must step in.

This might be seen as a self-defeating prophecy. One can somehow justify social welfare by stating so many are below the poverty line. So will spending cure poverty? Not if they keep raising the artificial poverty line.

Come to think of it they can do similar things with corporate welfare as well.

 

[ricmat]

This might be seen as a self-defeating prophecy. One can somehow justify social welfare by stating so many are below the poverty line. So will spending cure poverty? Not if they keep raising the artificial poverty line.

Come to think of it they can do similar things with corporate welfare as well.

Good point. Look at all the “green energy” corporate welfare we’ve seen lately!!

 

[estesbob]

Good point. Look at all the “green energy” corporate welfare we’ve seen lately!!

And GM

 

[ProVobis]

Free health care started with a couple trillion dollars and counting.
Close off the coal industry will cost everyone who chooses to turn on a light bulb more than it ever has.
Gas was 1.85 a gallon four years ago.

Liberals = Big goverment
Big goverment=Higher taxes+less spending-small businesses will crumble.

So can we say the “Too Big to Fail” corporatism has reached the end of its line?

 

[Jeanne_S]

No - I live near Detroit, so I know what voting for Liberals/Democrats/Socialists looks like in the real world.

Most Liberals aren’t problem-solvers, but enablers. A lot of people are in denial that ‘business as usual’ needs to change to save the city.

Please note that I said most, not all. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

Liberal politicians talk a good game about wanting to help the poor, but their follow through leaves a lot to be desired. More money isn’t always the answer to every question/concern. Sadly, Conservative politicians don’t have an urban agenda that sufficiently addresses the needs of the poor. So, really the choice is “dumb or dumber”.

Conservative politicians need to actually answer people’s concerns to questions like, “so what’s going to happen to me if my aid is cut off and there are no businesses in the area to hire people like me?” ‘Let the free market work’ isn’t a sufficient response if your ration from the government is cut off and you aren’t able to work or don’t have job skills for the modern economy. It would be devastating to most cities if there was an even larger homeless population and still inadequate services for this population.

There are a lot of challenges that have to be addressed that are unique to this area. However, most people know where to put the blame, since elections are always about how Liberal do you want your Democrat and who’s not going to rock the boat too much.

 

[ProVobis]

… I don’t understand how a Catholic could be unsympathetic to the plight of the poor…

To be fair, if one compares the “poor” of today with the “poor” of 50 years ago, you’ll find that the standard of living has increased. Everyone, for example, seems to have color TVs and a phone today. I don’t think you can credit either party for this though.

Good post, however.

 

[Zosimus41]

So can we say the “Too Big to Fail” corporatism has reached the end of its line?

Not sure I follow you???

But You have to admit most of what you see going on today as history repeats itself has led to big goverment.

There is NO greater country on earth than the United States and thus far its been because
of intrapreneurs like the vanderbilts,JP Morgan,Nikola Tesla etc…

Throughout world history every empire has fallen in some shape or form.

But our country is strong because of individual efforts not from big government.

Own and controlled by private persons brother thats the American Way

 

[TimothyIgnatius]

Jesus was a socialist, and an anti-capitalist if I have ever heard of one.

Many of you seem to be implying that simply because the Republicans don’t support abortion that they are the better party. How many Republican candidates in office have we had since the Roe v Wade decision, without any sort of success on this issue? They don’t care about aborted babies, they just pretend to so they can trick you into their vote. Their policies do not reflect Christian values, they reflect evil. Many say that the Democrats reflect evil also. I do not disagree. I’m not suggesting Democrats are the answer either. Truly more parties are needed.

“1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don’t show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?”

How can a person not want universal health care? This country is the only industrialized nation without it. We treat medicine as a business, instead as a means to heal people. This is evil, pure and simple. Read these passages and convince me Jesus would be against health care:

Matthew 4:23, 9:35, 17:14

Mark 7:31, 8:22

John 9:1-41

 

[estesbob]

Jesus was a socialist, and an anti-capitalist if I have ever heard of one.

Many of you seem to be implying that simply because the Republicans don’t support abortion that they are the better party. How many Republican candidates in office have we had since the Roe v Wade decision, without any sort of success on this issue? They don’t care about aborted babies, they just pretend to so they can trick you into their vote. Their policies do not reflect Christian values, they reflect evil. Many say that the Democrats reflect evil also. I do not disagree. I’m not suggesting Democrats are the answer either. Truly more parties are needed.

“1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don’t show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?”

How can a person not want universal health care? This country is the only industrialized nation without it. We treat medicine as a business, instead as a means to heal people. This is evil, pure and simple. Read these passages and convince me Jesus would be against health care:

Matthew 4:23, 9:35, 17:14

Mark 7:31, 8:22

John 9:1-41

The Church opposes Obama Care. I am no more obligated to accept your personal interpretation of scripture than you are mine. The Church supports universal Health care but does not specify how it should be provided. They most certainly never said it was “evil” not to do so.

I can no longer provide health insurance for my employees because the ACA requires me to fund evil. i would rather shut the company down than to accede to the secularists who are in power today. The catholics who helped empower the current administration should hang their head in shame.