Will voting for Liberals lower poverty, unemployment and the deficit?

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Jesus was a socialist, and an anti-capitalist if I have ever heard of one.

Many of you seem to be implying that simply because the Republicans don’t support abortion that they are the better party. How many Republican candidates in office have we had since the Roe v Wade decision, without any sort of success on this issue? They don’t care about aborted babies, they just pretend to so they can trick you into their vote. Their policies do not reflect Christian values, they reflect evil. Many say that the Democrats reflect evil also. I do not disagree. I’m not suggesting Democrats are the answer either. Truly more parties are needed.

“1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don’t show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

How can a person not want universal health care? This country is the only industrialized nation without it. We treat medicine as a business, instead as a means to heal people. This is evil, pure and simple. Read these passages and convince me Jesus would be against health care:

Matthew 4:23, 9:35, 17:14

Mark 7:31, 8:22

John 9:1-41
Do you think universal health care will address the problem of medicine being a business, and not a means to heal people?

Universal health care comes with a codifier, birth control, morning after pills, abortifacients, and a host of other things that the government says we need. Would Jesus be for that?

As a matter of fact most of these industrialized nat
 
Timothy

All of the passages you referenced say nothing about socialized medicine. What they show is Jesus performing miracles and by this process demonstrating his power and his compassion for us all.

Enough with the socialism. As the government increases its powers we lose ours. That is what socialism aims at … complete control of everyone’s life from cradle to grave. Such powers you may assume are going to be charitably exercised. I doubt it very much, and by the time that control is complete, it will be too late to reverse course.

We will be back to Animal Farm and 1984.
 
Jesus was a socialist, and an anti-capitalist if I have ever heard of one.

Many of you seem to be implying that simply because the Republicans don’t support abortion that they are the better party. How many Republican candidates in office have we had since the Roe v Wade decision, without any sort of success on this issue? They don’t care about aborted babies, they just pretend to so they can trick you into their vote. Their policies do not reflect Christian values, they reflect evil. Many say that the Democrats reflect evil also. I do not disagree. I’m not suggesting Democrats are the answer either. Truly more parties are needed.

“1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don’t show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

How can a person not want universal health care? This country is the only industrialized nation without it. We treat medicine as a business, instead as a means to heal people. This is evil, pure and simple. Read these passages and convince me Jesus would be against health care:

Matthew 4:23, 9:35, 17:14

Mark 7:31, 8:22

John 9:1-41
Do you think universal health care will address the problem of medicine being a business, and not a means to heal people?

Universal health care comes with a codifier, birth control, morning after pills, abortifacients, and a host of other things that the government says we need. Would Jesus be for that?

As a matter of fact most of these industrialized nations test to see if the unborn infant in the womb will have Down Syndrome, so they can KILL IT!

We should be given the freedom from and the freedom to, if you know what I mean.

Individuals can find heath care without universal heath care, its called the Church, there are many Catholic and non-catholic Christian hospitals that provide to those who have not.

Maybe if the people were not getting there money extracted out of their pockets weekly by State institutions, they would be able to give to programs to heal people freely.

I pay over 40 percent tax in California, that does not include the hourly dollar amount that comes out my check to pay for health care, that puts me at close to 60% and on top of all that there is a 10% state tax on almost everything you buy, so now I’m close to 70%, after giving 10% to the Church, what do I have left…20% 🤷

The only thing universal, I feel we need in this country, is religious education in our Schools, apart from that 😛
 
If , as has been stated, Jesus and the Church support universal health care, and voting for Liberals will not lower poverty, unemployment and the deficit, then obviously voting for liberals is an immoral choice to make. If voting in Liberals create the conditions where univeral health care is unaffordable, then it is evil to knowingly do so.
On the other hand, if business competition is able to deliver health care to more people at reduced prices, and generates greater levels of health care, then one can only conclude that voting for politicians that advocate such things would be the moral choice.
 
Jesus was a socialist, and an anti-capitalist if I have ever heard of one.
The Parable of the Talents

14 “For it will be as when a man going on a journey called his servants and entrusted to them his property; 15 to one he gave five talents,[a] to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them; and he made five talents more. 17 So also, he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master’s money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not winnow; 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sowed, and gather where I have not winnowed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to every one who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.** 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.’

Just sayin’…**
 
** Will voting for Liberals lower poverty, unemployment and the deficit?**

No. Take a look at almost any state run by the left (kindly called liberals) and then ask the question.
 
** Will voting for Liberals lower poverty, unemployment and the deficit?**

No. Take a look at almost any state run by the left (kindly called liberals) and then ask the question.
Yes, but who said “Deficits don’t matter”?
 
On the other hand, if business competition is able to deliver health care to more people at reduced prices, and generates greater levels of health care, then one can only conclude that voting for politicians that advocate such things would be the moral choice.
FWIW, Jimmy Carter deregulated the trucking and airline industry to the point where airline fares became competitive to this day. (I know this because I worked in that industry for a long time.) Yet he’s regarded as one of the worst presidents we’ve ever had.
 
But our country is strong because of individual efforts not from big government.
Doesn’t the military have anything to do with it?

And what about the space program which eventually led to the present communication devices we have today? Do you think Bank of America, even with its monopolistic ability to get printed money from the Fed, not Congress, would have invested in any projects which competed with the Russians back in the 60’s? I don’t.
 
Universal health care comes with a codifier, birth control, morning after pills, abortifacients, and a host of other things that the government says we need.
Birth control pills were approved by the FDA back in the early 60’s and have been sold and promoted by the privates since then. They were just as immoral being made available back then by the drug and insurance companies as they are today. Has really nothing to do with health care, I’ll agree with you there.
 
How about encouraging job creation by ending the overregulation and overtaxation of business?
How can you say that? The regulations imposed by Sarbanes-Oxley, for example, prompted companies to hire more programmers and accountants. I thought you’d be in favor of that.
 
As someone who thinks of himself as conservative, I have yet to find the conservative that thinks helping the poor is a bad idea. Most of us, I think, take exception when welfare becomes a family business. I can, however, find a large number of liberals who think abortion on demand is something to be celebrated. This is how I see things and this is why I can never vote for Democrats in any great number.
 
Birth control pills were approved by the FDA back in the early 60’s and have been sold and promoted by the privates since then. They were just as immoral being made available back then by the drug and insurance companies as they are today. Has really nothing to do with health care, I’ll agree with you there.
Right, that is why I mentioned having freedom from (constraints) while having freedom to (live within the context of our creation as a child of God) hence the religious education in schools.

I am not in favor of a no holds barred libertarianism, I think it gets the freedom from constraint part right, but forget freedom comes with responsibility, ie living within the context of our creation! I think there are some that make good secular arguments from natural law like Thomas Sowell is ok.

Many end roads could be passed if the goal was to better man, by giving due honor to God first, not business, and letting man define who he is apart from what has been revealed to us through Christ, is a big mistake as well!

If we are to look for answers in a two party system, we will only be limiting our freedom to two parties that promote a system of death!

Could we find ourselves better off in a sort of Laissez Fair Capitalism? Perhaps if it is Under God

Would we be better off in some sort of Social Libertarianism? Perhaps if it has a context.

Continuing in this two party system, and expecting change seems foolish to me. my two cents 😉
 
Not that it is vitally important from a spiritual perspective, but according to CNSnews and Politifact, the debt has doubled under the Obama admin. The unemployment rate is far higher than the Bush admin, and welfare spending has exploded, but let’s ask ourselves why… higher unemployment.
True. However, 🙂 (and I am not a political partisan), reasons for higher unemployment are mutiple. The Root of All Evil, embodied by Wall Street, consorted with the mortgage industry, first of all. The mortgage indusry is possibly the most amoral of all industries, if it’s possible to best Wall Street in that department. Mind you, I must qualify that mean-sounding statement of mine to say that I have met fine people of integrity working in real estate per se (agents, brokers), who are not of such venal minds, and with blood in their veins instead of ice. However, the corporate types who own & run mortgage companies and conglomerates are of a different breed; this breed was voraciously instrumental in the mortgage meltdown of several years ago.

The Wall Street mini-crash of '08 was another tsunami. Combining as a perfect storm with the mortgage crisis, many, many people found themselves out of work: companies literally disappeared, so we’re talking white-collar, educated, degreed professionals here, as well as those less educated of course. This was because the revenue of these companies was literally speculation, or a house made of sand.

Third major factor (growing more slowly than either the developing mortgage crisis or the sudden WS implosion, has been the unconscionably immoral level of job outsourcing and the complementary hiring/firing policies of many companies. What I would call Employment Attitude is omnipresent now: almost no company is employee-friendly, in the sense of giving a you-know-what about your future, your livelihood, your notice of longevity, your competency, your loyalty, even oral assurances made to you at hiring. Undoubtedly there are conscientious employers on this board. Unfortunately, most of us have never met you. 🙂

I’m not talking about whistleblowers, troublemakers, malcontents, or incompetents on the job. I’m talking about one quality employee after another being victimized, in companies big and small, incorporated and non-incorporated, local and international, who are and have been both immoral and irresponsible. I have heard and read so much, and met so many individuals who have victimized by the brutal employment atmosphere of the late 20th and early 21st century, that I know whereof I speak. Some such employees are CAF members, by the way.

And be clear that I am NOT a union supporter, overall. Nor am I a leftist. I am a person with a conscience, who believes that social justice has been hijacked by the Democratic Party, who has defined it uniquely, narrowly, and politically. I don’t see many Democrats in power, locally or nationally, putting much pressure on policy changes.toward employers.

I do not believe in unions unless the entire country gets to be unionized. Otherwise, unions are merely special interests (privileges) for a minority of people that the rest of us, in professions, don’t get to be part of. It creates both inequality and an adversarial dynamic, which is part of what got us here (the adversarial part).

I believe in a Common Good party, with a platform that thinks through consequences of enacted policies and unenacted negligence/laissez-faire. I very much believe in capitalism, but I also have seen that laissez-faire is not a policy but a synonym for apathy. We Catholics are supposed to stand for morality, and that morality is supposed to extend to all spheres, including government and including the work place. None of us benefits with increased unemployment, and poverty has always been, historically, a negative element in any country’s sense of well-being as a country. Poverty creates social unrest, is divisive, and is time-consuming for government and for even the people not directly affected by poverty. If you own a small store or small business, poverty affects you in the pocketbook.

Just an explanation of my comment about WS. I actually love the idea of stocks, and have invested profitably in the past in Money Markets. I like the opportunity for speculation and investment which are part of a capitalistic economic system like ours. The bottom line, however, is that with regard to WS, the mortgage indusry (because housing is an essential element of survival!), and Employment, I am a believer in regulation which aims to balance capitalism from becoming runaway exploitation and profiteering without consequences.

Long answer. Probably not what the OP wanted. In short, it is not a particular party which is or is not responsible for increasing or decreasing the items listed in the thread, but unwatched central elements of an economic system that has needed watching and restraint, and still does.
 
The Parable of the Talents

14 “For it will be as when a man going on a journey called his servants and entrusted to them his property; 15 to one he gave five talents,[a] to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them; and he made five talents more. 17 So also, he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master’s money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not winnow; 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sowed, and gather where I have not winnowed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to every one who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.** 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.’

Just sayin’…**

Wow. Your viewpoint has truly frightened me. I cannot believe someone can subscribe to this interpretation. This is a parable about using your talents for GOD, not the pursuit of one’s own interest… this made me think of when Jesus threw the peddlers out of the temple… This parable is FAR from an endorsement for capitalism. Who benefits when the CEO’s rake in billions while their employees struggle? God, or those CEO’s?

There seems to be this concept that things shouldn’t change in the Church and that mentality should also apply to politics. This is erroneous. There is also a horrific and frightening trend to simply adhere to the talking points of a political party instead of looking at objective, empirical data. Instead of “I’m going to consider this from both viewpoints and then make a determination,” it becomes “I’m just going to believe what they tell me.” This works in matters of faith, but NOT in matters of politics.

There also seems to be this damaging concept that if something is legal it then becomes condoned and even endorsed. This is another fallacy. I don’t know of any devout Catholics who went “WOO HOO! NOW I CAN GET AN ABORTION!” once the Roe v Wade decision was made. I know people who are addicted to drugs despite their status as being illegal. I need universal health care because I am a type-1 diabetic. Just because I’d use so-called “Obamacare” to get my diabetes supplies does not mean I’m going to use it to get free contraceptives… Whatever happened to free will? Whatever happened to the choice between turning to God or turning away from him?

Also, those miracles I quoted were about Jesus healing people.
 
There also seems to be this damaging concept that if something is legal it then becomes condoned and even endorsed. This is another fallacy. I don’t know of any devout Catholics who went “WOO HOO! NOW I CAN GET AN ABORTION!” once the Roe v Wade decision was made. I know people who are addicted to drugs despite their status as being illegal. I need universal health care because I am a type-1 diabetic. Just because I’d use so-called “Obamacare” to get my diabetes supplies does not mean I’m going to use it to get free contraceptives… Whatever happened to free will? Whatever happened to the choice between turning to God or turning away from him?

Also, those miracles I quoted were about Jesus healing people.
The problem is not free will, that is the point, if it is mandatory your tax dollars pay for abortions and abortifacients, it is against your will and makes one culpable!

Freedom from constraint is only one side of the coin, freedom to live as a child of God in context and give due honor to Him is the other.
 
Wow. Your viewpoint has truly frightened me. I cannot believe someone can subscribe to this interpretation. This is a parable about using your talents for GOD, not the pursuit of one’s own interest… this made me think of when Jesus threw the peddlers out of the temple… This parable is FAR from an endorsement for capitalism. Who benefits when the CEO’s rake in billions while their employees struggle? God, or those CEO’s?

There seems to be this concept that things shouldn’t change in the Church and that mentality should also apply to politics. This is erroneous. There is also a horrific and frightening trend to simply adhere to the talking points of a political party instead of looking at objective, empirical data. Instead of “I’m going to consider this from both viewpoints and then make a determination,” it becomes “I’m just going to believe what they tell me.” This works in matters of faith, but NOT in matters of politics.

There also seems to be this damaging concept that if something is legal it then becomes condoned and even endorsed. This is another fallacy. I don’t know of any devout Catholics who went “WOO HOO! NOW I CAN GET AN ABORTION!” once the Roe v Wade decision was made. I know people who are addicted to drugs despite their status as being illegal. I need universal health care because I am a type-1 diabetic. Just because I’d use so-called “Obamacare” to get my diabetes supplies does not mean I’m going to use it to get free contraceptives… Whatever happened to free will? Whatever happened to the choice between turning to God or turning away from him?

Also, those miracles I quoted were about Jesus healing people.
So where is the free will in forcing me to pay for my employees contraception and abortificants?
 
Jesus was a socialist, and an anti-capitalist if I have ever heard of one.

Many of you seem to be implying that simply because the Republicans don’t support abortion that they are the better party. How many Republican candidates in office have we had since the Roe v Wade decision, without any sort of success on this issue? They don’t care about aborted babies, they just pretend to so they can trick you into their vote. Their policies do not reflect Christian values, they reflect evil. Many say that the Democrats reflect evil also. I do not disagree. I’m not suggesting Democrats are the answer either. Truly more parties are needed.

“1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don’t show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

How can a person not want universal health care? This country is the only industrialized nation without it. We treat medicine as a business, instead as a means to heal people. This is evil, pure and simple. Read these passages and convince me Jesus would be against health care:

Matthew 4:23, 9:35, 17:14

Mark 7:31, 8:22

John 9:1-41
You like so many well intentioned but mistaken liberals mistake “universal insurance cards” or a “one payer system” for universal health CARE. Giving someone an insurance card does not translate into getting them health care. Forcing them to buy insurance also does not get them health care. Further remember the Government Golden Rule: He who pays the gold makes the rule. Thus instead of having doctors, nurses and healthcare facilities decide on your best treatment options, the government will dictate what you can and can’t receive. They make the payment after all!

What has happened with respect to Obamacare is that costs have increased, access has decreased, the HHS has mandated that all employers MUST provide lifestyle and recreational drugs but not that they must provide life saving drugs. Obamacare demands a compromise of conscious and a violation of the Constitution.

Does demanding that employers provide all employees with free birth control, abortion inducing drugs, or sterilization services sound like concern for the poor? Is pregnancy a disease? Questions neither asked nor answered when the rules were made.

What health issues do the poor often encounter? Many are obese, diabetic, and have chronic heart and/or lung disease from smoking. How does demanding birth control pills be passed out for free help these people?

It’s very clear that the Obama’ administration’s objectives are anything but actually helping the poor access better medical care. It is all about control, not care.

In America, people have access to health care, whether or not they can pay for it. The real issue with “universal health care” is that its advocates want someone else to pay for THEIR medical care, not that there are people dying in the streets because there were locks on the hospital door.

As to the Republican/Democrat debate…no contest. One party has evil emblazoned in its platform. Its heroes are abortion providers. Does that mean a Catholic cannot vote for an actual pro-life Democrat? No. Just as a Catholic can’t vote for a pro-abortion Republican. It’s not the party that determines but it’s clear that the Democrat party is the party of anti-life causes; abortion, contraception, and sterilization.

So as a Catholic you try to claim moral equivalence because some Republicans are opposed to higher taxes? Really?

Lisa
 
I find it odd that laissez-faire capitalism and its social darwinism is considered compatible with Christianity.
 
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