Will water-sensitive aliens be accommodated at baptism

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TULIPed said:
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porthos11:
Immortal soul is not sufficient. It must be an immortal human soul.
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This doesn’t include Tribbles. What kind of monster are you?
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Tribbles are not human, and cannot be baptized.

I wouldn’t know if they have rational souls. The Klingons probably didn’t think so.
 
Both men and animals were given the breath of life (Gen. 1:30, 6:17, 7:15, 22)

Here is a vivid description of the New Earth (obviously, since it cannot be of this present earth!):
Isa 11: 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed ; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
II Sam. 12:3-5
“O LORD, thou preservest man and beast.” (Ps. 36:6)
Ps. 148:10-13, speaking of life on the New Earth
See Gen. 9:8-17 and the passage from Hosea below.

“God’s plan for a renewed Earth after the Flood emphatically involved animals. Wouldn’t we expect his plan for a renewed Earth after the future judgment to likewise include animals? If the rescue of mankind in the ark is a picture of redemption, doesn’t the rescue of the animals in the ark also anticipate their restoration as part of God’s redemptive purposes?” (Alcorn)

Hos. 2:18-19:

“And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground:and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely. And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in loving kindness, and in mercies.”

Rom 8:21 clinches it:

“…the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.”
 
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po18guy said:
Well, it also seems that an omniscient God might not have established baptism if there were hydrophobic beings.
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Yes. The impossible is never morally compulsory. God would not use a deadly means to transform a life.
 
Cacao_bearskin said:
Will it be ok to baptise the little baby aliens with something else like maybe sand that gets poured over their heads?
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No. Not even the Horta from Star Trek (episode “Devil in the Dark”), which might be something that takes a bath in sand, could not be baptized with sand.

Dan
 
TULIPed said:
So there’s no hope for my Roomba then. Now I’m really, really sad.
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Your Roomba, not being a fallen being, is undoubtedly content with the dictates of Providence.
(A device infested with Windows, on the other hand…)
 
porthos11 said:
If there are non-human intelligent lifeforms out there, they are neither in need of, nor entitled to, the Christian economy. Unless they were humans enslaved and resettled by the Goa’uld, in which case these “aliens” would indeed be entitled to baptism. I would also argue that Spock would also be eligible for baptism (he is half human), but his father Sarek would not. Worf is not entitled to baptism, but his son Alexander is.
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They changed this in an episode of STNG. Evidence was found of a common origin for humanoid species. This would expand the definition of human to species from other planets. The possibility is already present with Spock and Alexander; they could not exist if their parents were not both descended from Adam, at least Pius XII would have to be corrected.

CS Lewis of course dismissed the whole dependence on physical lineage as a requirement for humanity. But that is probably too radical for you to accept…
 
Bible verses please. Here is one more: Luke 3:6
About Pope Francis: “He said paradise is open to all creatures,” Rev. James Martin , a Jesuit persist and editor at large of America, the Catholic Magazine , told the Times . “That sounds pretty clear to me.”
“Eternal life will be a shared experience of awe, in which each creature, resplendently transfigured, will take its rightful place and have something to give those poor men and women who will have been liberated once and for all,” the text reads.
 
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Adding to your various sci fi examples, I would have to speculate that the Doctor could not be validly baptized even when temporarily human, as seen in Human Nature / Family of Blood, as I assume Time Lord technology is only capable of rewriting biology, not one’s soul…so human biology but Time Lord soul…invalid baptism. On the other hand…if the Doctor is indeed half-human on his mother’s side (a point of great and even violent contention in Whovian circles), valid baptism may be possible. We do know that, in-universe, Vatican secret protocols, dating back to the Middle Ages, for dealing with alien invasions include finding the Doctor…
 
Very bad idea to assume that the salvation for other rational beings is the same for that of humanity. First, they may not be made in the image and likeness of God, thereby never being able to achieve heaven. Secondly, they may not be a fallen species. They could bask in the glory of creation without ever having sinned or need redemption. Finally, God may have revealed to them their own process to achieve salvation. They may be more intelligent than us and be able to understand God better than we can. Christianity is for humanity, not for aliens.
 
Cacao_bearskin said:
So, if there is ever an alien discovered that is damaged by coming in contact with water (like the one in that movie “Signs”), Will it be ok to baptise the little baby aliens with something else like maybe sand that gets poured over their heads? I have heard that the Church says that all creatures, including extraterrestrials are welcome to join up and become Catholics. Just wondering and thinking ahead.
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I would assume that if there are “water-sensitive aliens” out there, then either:
  1. they are not fallen and don’t need to be baptized, or
  2. the Holy Trinity already provided them with their own path to salvation
I don’t think we must assume that humans are called to evangelize the Universe… because it’s a pretty big place.
 
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Dovekin said:
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porthos11:
If there are non-human intelligent lifeforms out there, they are neither in need of, nor entitled to, the Christian economy. Unless they were humans enslaved and resettled by the Goa’uld, in which case these “aliens” would indeed be entitled to baptism. I would also argue that Spock would also be eligible for baptism (he is half human), but his father Sarek would not. Worf is not entitled to baptism, but his son Alexander is.
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They changed this in an episode of STNG. Evidence was found of a common origin for humanoid species. This would expand the definition of human to species from other planets. The possibility is already present with Spock and Alexander; they could not exist if their parents were not both descended from Adam, at least Pius XII would have to be corrected.

CS Lewis of course dismissed the whole dependence on physical lineage as a requirement for humanity. But that is probably too radical for you to accept…
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No, in Star Trek, humans are humanoid creatures native to Earth. That Earth was seeded by the ancient humanoids does not mean human nature exists naturally across the galaxy. The ancient humanoids only seeded their genetic material, so that their genetic instructions influenced the otherwise native evolution on various worlds. But humans and the other races are not the same species as the ancient humanoids. Humans still evolved independently from proteins to amino acids to genetic material to single celled to multicelled. Their bipedal physical form shared with other species would be due to the influence of the proto-humanoid DNA.

As for your closing jab, I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I am not making an argument for monogenism. My argument is purely incarnational, that Jesus assumed a human nature. Humans are not Vulcans are not Klingons.
 
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355 "God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.” Man occupies a unique place in creation: (I) he is “in the image of God”; (II) in his own nature he unites the spiritual and material worlds; (III) he is created “male and female”; (IV) God established him in his friendship.

356 of all visible creatures only man is “able to know and love his creator”. He is "the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God’s own life. It was for this end that he was created, and this is the fundamental reason for his dignity:

https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1B.HTM
 
Riman643 said:
Very bad idea to assume that the salvation for other rational beings is the same for that of humanity. First, they may not be made in the image and likeness of God, thereby never being able to achieve heaven. Secondly, they may not be a fallen species. They could bask in the glory of creation without ever having sinned or need redemption. Finally, God may have revealed to them their own process to achieve salvation. They may be more intelligent than us and be able to understand God better than we can. Christianity is for humanity, not for aliens.
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Or they may be fallen, but it was not God’s will to redeem them.

Or they may be fallen to us, but God may have laid out a very different moral code. Maybe stealing, murder, and adultery is what is divinely required of them.

Or they may not be fallen at all, and also created in God’s image, and thereby enjoying primordial innocence.

Or they may be fallen, and God laid out an economy of salvation for them. Maybe that economy involved God becoming incarnate in their nature and dying, like he did for this world. Or that economy may be the daily sacrifice of someone’s eldest son, I don’t know…

But in any case, the Christian order is for the human race, and the human race alone.
 
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ENCYCLICAL LETTER LAUDATO SI OF THE HOLY FATHER FRANCIS ON CARE FOR OUR COMMON HOME:
IX. BEYOND THE SUN
  1. At the end, we will find ourselves face to face with the infinite beauty of God (cf. 1 Cor 13:12), and be able to read with admiration and happiness the mystery of the universe, which with us will share in unending plenitude. Even now we are journeying towards the sabbath of eternity, the new Jerusalem, towards our common home in heaven. Jesus says: “I make all things new” ( Rev 21:5). Eternal life will be a shared experience of awe, in which each creature, resplendently transfigured, will take its rightful place and have something to give those poor men and women who will have been liberated once and for all.
 
Cacao_bearskin said:
ENCYCLICAL LETTER LAUDATO SI OF THE HOLY FATHER FRANCIS ON CARE FOR OUR COMMON HOME:
IX. BEYOND THE SUN
  1. At the end, we will find ourselves face to face with the infinite beauty of God (cf. 1 Cor 13:12), and be able to read with admiration and happiness the mystery of the universe, which with us will share in unending plenitude. Even now we are journeying towards the sabbath of eternity, the new Jerusalem, towards our common home in heaven. Jesus says: “I make all things new” ( Rev 21:5). Eternal life will be a shared experience of awe, in which each creature, resplendently transfigured, will take its rightful place and have something to give those poor men and women who will have been liberated once and for all.
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That is a clear reference to what we already hold about the New Heavens and the New Earth. This has absolutely zero bearing on the baptism on non-humans.

This allows us to hope that our four-legged pets would be re-created in the new Earth. It does not give us permission to baptize Cujo.
 
According to 243-246, animals automatically bypass baptism just like the thief on the cross. Did he not make it to heaven without being baptised?
 
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