Will we ever be ONE again?

[Eric_Hyom]

No, definitely no to the protestant ones like Canterbury and the lutherans. There is nothing to suggest any sort of union or even a direction to that path. Orthodox- maybe but probably not within any of our lifetimes. Some of groups would maybe be open to it (Constantinople, Greeks) but others are hostile to the suggestion (Romanian, especially Russian). Orientals and the other eastern christians might be one of the best bets but still I don’t foresee any action on that front.

There is only one Jesus Christ, how can we divide him into all these denominations?

If we start with the greatest commandments, then there is hope, all the law and the prophets of God hang and depend on these commandments. The oneness of the church must also hang and depend on these commandments.

How do we love God with all our hearts mind and strength?
How do love Lutherans, Baptists, Orthodox etc as we love ourselves.

We are commanded to love, that means we need to change ourselves, not change others. We are not in the position to judge others, only Jesus can do this.

 

[boar2roar]

There is only one Jesus Christ, how can we divide him into all these denominations?

If we start with the greatest commandments, then there is hope, all the law and the prophets of God hang and depend on these commandments. The oneness of the church must also hang and depend on these commandments.

How do we love God with all our hearts mind and strength?
How do love Lutherans, Baptists, Orthodox etc as we love ourselves.

We are commanded to love, that means we need to change ourselves, not change others. We are not in the position to judge others, only Jesus can do this.

I gave you a realistic answer, you can keep dreaming of denomination less christianity but that will never happen.

 

[SteveVH]

There is only one Jesus Christ, how can we divide him into all these denominations?

If we start with the greatest commandments, then there is hope, all the law and the prophets of God hang and depend on these commandments. The oneness of the church must also hang and depend on these commandments.

How do we love God with all our hearts mind and strength?
How do love Lutherans, Baptists, Orthodox etc as we love ourselves.

We are commanded to love, that means we need to change ourselves, not change others. We are not in the position to judge others, only Jesus can do this.

Who says we do not love Lutherans, Baptists, Orthodox, etc.? This does not mean that we can tolerate error when it comes to dogma and doctrine. And you are correct, we are not in the position to judge others, but our Church certainly is. It was given the power and authority to bind and loose and the charge to teach the truth to the whole world. It must defend the apostolic faith always and at all times and it has faithfully fulfilled this obligation.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Who says we do not love Lutherans, Baptists, Orthodox, etc.? This does not mean that we can tolerate error when it comes to dogma and doctrine. And you are correct, we are not in the position to judge others, but our Church certainly is. It was given the power and authority to bind and loose and the charge to teach the truth to the whole world. It must defend the apostolic faith always and at all times and it has faithfully fulfilled this obligation.

Jesus did not say the greatest commandments are to defend the apostolic faith, so it is still best to put the greatest above all else. All the law and the prophets hang and depend on the greatest commandments, so it would make sense that all the church laws, hang and depend on these commandments also.

What better way can there be to unite, than on the greatest commandments.

Blessings

Eric

 

[MartinJordan]

Jesus did not say the greatest commandments are to defend the apostolic faith, so it is still best to put the greatest above all else.

Hi Eric.Can I ask where in Official Church teaching this is found?

Just wondering. Thanks.

MJ

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Originally Posted by Eric Hyom View Post
Jesus did not say the greatest commandments are to defend the apostolic faith, so it is still best to put the greatest above all else.

Hi Eric.Can I ask where in Official Church teaching this is found?

Just wondering. Thanks.

MJ

You could compare the greatest commandments to a coat hook, you could say all the law of God is a coat. The coat hangs on the hook; and the hook stops the coat from falling on the floor and getting trampled on.

Do the greatest commandments hang and depend on defending the apostolic faith?

Or should it be, the apostolic faith hangs and depends on the greatest commandments, and how we apply these commandments?

Just my thoughts, and not church teaching.

Just a thought, when Jesus spent his time on Earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments…

Jesus loves God the Father with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.
Jesus loves each and everyone of his neighbours as he loves himself, the soldiers who nailed him to the cross, Judas, and all of us whose sins he died for.

Beyond my understanding.

 

[SteveVH]

Jesus did not say the greatest commandments are to defend the apostolic faith, so it is still best to put the greatest above all else. All the law and the prophets hang and depend on the greatest commandments, so it would make sense that all the church laws, hang and depend on these commandments also.

What better way can there be to unite, than on the greatest commandments.

Blessings

Eric

This would be true if, in fact, the Church did not first love. That we must love comes first and foremost, but we do not love someone if we allow them to fall into error and we do not tolerate error out of some mistaken notion that toleration equals love. It does not.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

This would be true if, in fact, the Church did not first love. That we must love comes first and foremost, but we do not love someone if we allow them to fall into error and we do not tolerate error out of some mistaken notion that toleration equals love. It does not.

I am really bad at following advice, I smoked for years, I knew it was bad, people told me it was bad, there were warning messages on cigarette packets, I chose to ignore the lot. thankfully I have given up smoking, something inside me helped me to change.

I am now one of those annoying ex smokers, who tries to encourage others to give up smoking, but from my experience; I know It’s very easy to give advice, but so much harder to act on it.

History tells us that billions of people have lived and died with a whole range of faiths, I think the greatest commandments are all we need.

 

[SteveVH]

I am really bad at following advice, I smoked for years, I knew it was bad, people told me it was bad, there were warning messages on cigarette packets, I chose to ignore the lot. thankfully I have given up smoking, something inside me helped me to change.

I am now one of those annoying ex smokers, who tries to encourage others to give up smoking, but from my experience; I know It’s very easy to give advice, but so much harder to act on it.

History tells us that billions of people have lived and died with a whole range of faiths, I think the greatest commandments are all we need.

Without them, all else is empty. But that does not mean that we can love while we abandon the teachings of the Church and think everything is alright.

We must be baptized.
We must confess our sins.
We must eat and drink the body and blood of the Lord or we have no life in us.
We must give our time, talent and treasure to the Church.
We must attend Mass each and every week and on days of obligation.
We must believe and hold all that Holy Mother Church professes.
We must…
We must…

 

[MartinJordan]

You could compare the greatest commandments to a coat hook, you could say all the law of God is a coat. The coat hangs on the hook; and the hook stops the coat from falling on the floor and getting trampled on.

Do the greatest commandments hang and depend on defending the apostolic faith?

Or should it be, the apostolic faith hangs and depends on the greatest commandments, and how we apply these commandments?

Just my thoughts, and not church teaching.

Just a thought, when Jesus spent his time on Earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments…

Jesus loves God the Father with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.
Jesus loves each and everyone of his neighbours as he loves himself, the soldiers who nailed him to the cross, Judas, and all of us whose sins he died for.

Beyond my understanding.

Ive no personal issue with what you are doing with the best of your abilities and fellowship with others to help those suffering.

I appreciate how you responded and your frankness that it is your own view, but as to not to beleaguer you further , Id like to ask did any of your co-workers in Christ doing this service with you, have they ever come to a Catholic Mass service/Liturgy?

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

This would be true if, in fact, the Church did not first love. That we must love comes first and foremost, but we do not love someone if we allow them to fall into error and we do not tolerate error out of some mistaken notion that toleration equals love. It does not.

This is hard stuff SteveVH, that’s for sure. :crying:

MJ

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Hi Eric.Can I ask where in Official Church teaching this is found?

Just wondering. Thanks.

MJ

Wonder no more!

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST
SECTION TWO
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

CHAPTER TWO
“YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF”

*Jesus said to his disciples: "Love one another even as I have loved you."1
2196 In response to the question about the first of the commandments, Jesus says: "The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these."2

The apostle St. Paul reminds us of this: "He who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. The commandments, ‘You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,’ and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."3*

If we do our neighbour wrong, we have failed love. We can be solid in our faith and we don’t need to give into others beliefs. But we also don’t need to be rude or intransigent. It’s a hard balance.

As long as we are aware that we don’t do the conversion but the Holy Spirit, we’ll be fine. Keeping our ego in check is the hardest part.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Ive no personal issue with what you are doing with the best of your abilities and fellowship with others to help those suffering.

I appreciate how you responded and your frankness that it is your own view, but as to not to beleaguer you further , Id like to ask did any of your co-workers in Christ doing this service with you, have they ever come to a Catholic Mass service/Liturgy?

MJ

I have to thank a gentleman from the Baptist Church, he helped me come to faith in the Catholic Church.

Some years later, I worked with people with learning disabilities, I felt it would not be right to encourage them to come to church, as it is easy to influence them. One Sunday I came to work, and a lady asked me what I had done during the day, I said I went to church, she said she would like to go.

I arranged to take her on my day off, she was so pleased she told her friends, within a month I was taking seven people to mass for a couple of months on my Sundays off. However, this did not go down well with the manager and staff, they were not happy with the thought of converts to my church.

I then took all seven to the Baptist Church, and helped two settle in, I took the rest to the Anglican Church, and two settled there, I took the remaining two to the Salvation Army, and the seventh dropped out.

Because most of these people needed support to get to church, the manager and staff were obliged to take them, and these were the same people who were against going to church. This all happened twelve years ago, some have sadly died but they kept going to church until the end, the others still go to church.

 

[MartinJordan]

Wonder no more!

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST
SECTION TWO
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

CHAPTER TWO
“YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF”

*Jesus said to his disciples: "Love one another even as I have loved you."1
2196 In response to the question about the first of the commandments, Jesus says: "The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these."2

The apostle St. Paul reminds us of this: "He who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. The commandments, ‘You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,’ and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."3*

If we do our neighbour wrong, we have failed love. We can be solid in our faith and we don’t need to give into others beliefs. But we also don’t need to be rude or intransigent. It’s a hard balance.

As long as we are aware that we don’t do the conversion but the Holy Spirit, we’ll be fine. Keeping our ego in check is the hardest part.

My point is, we should have no fear at all to say “come over to our Mass have a look” Come and see. Despite the fact that we know that the co-workers in Christ are believers in Christ’s sacrifice but alas from a separated community

But I agree we must let the Holy Spirit call them, and this is possible ** if we love as we are called to love** Yes, agreed it IS a hard balance.

I am happy to say though clearly The bolded part Eric is doing.

MJ

 

[Eric_Hyom]

My point is, we should have no fear at all to say “come over to our Mass have a look” Come and see. Despite the fact that we know that the co-workers in Christ are believers in Christ’s sacrifice but alas from a separated community

But I agree we must let the Holy Spirit call them, and this is possible ** if we love as we are called to love** Yes, agreed it IS a hard balance.

I am happy to say though clearly The bolded part Eric is doing.

MJ

Oneness is a profound subject, beyond a doubt the Jews are God’s chosen people, we are chosen by Christ, and in Islam, Allah chooses whom he wills.

At a recent interfaith conference, someone made a point, did God make a mistake, when he chose each one of us, have we been put on this Earth to correct God’s mistake?

Blessings

Eric

 

[ProdigalSun]

Will the schisms between East and West,
Rome and Wittenburg, Geneva ,and Canterbury ever be healed?
Are the differences so great that we will remain separated until Jesus Returns?

What is the current status of the Lutheran/Catholic dialogue?
Is their such a thing as Orthodox/Protestant dialogue?

I have not read this thread yet but my opinion is that the Church is “ONE” !
Will we ever see a time where there are no other Christian sects… no probably not. But there has always been a rupture in adherence to the church it is a product of our concupiscence.

I believe (and think we are witnesses this more and more) that a person who seeks the truth no matter where it leasds and is open to the HS promptings will come back to the Catholic Church. Whether that is one person or a whole orthodox church.

Even if the patriarchs of Constantinople & Russia decided to once again comeback to the fold you can bet that many of their flock and clerics would not sign on and go off to create their own version of church.

That being said, I’m with the Church no matter what happens. To where can I go?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Even if the patriarchs of Constantinople & Russia decided to once again comeback to the fold you can bet that many of their flock and clerics would not sign on and go off to create their own version of church.

And the reasons for this are because many Orthodox believe that no Church council can be considered ecumenical until the “whole Church” has accepted it. This “receptionism” theory unwittingly encourages individual believers to pick and choose what he will or won’t accept from the hierarchy of his Church. Rather than the Church judging, guiding and correcting the individual on his journey through life, each Orthodox now exercises private judgment of the Church as it passes through history!

This problem is exacerbated by Orthodoxy’s rejection of the supremacy of the successor of Peter as head of the universal Church and its denial of papal infallibility. By separating its Patriarchs from their God-ordained head, the Bishop of Rome, Orthodoxy has undermined the authority of its own patriarchs to teach authoritatively and infallibly. Thus, in denying the Bishop of Rome anything more than an empty “primacy of honor”, Orthodoxy has relegated its patriarchs to that same empty “primacy of honor” amongst its other bishops.

Thus, even if the patriarchs decided to re-unite with Rome, the laity could just vote with their feet as you suggest.

(My signature changes from time to time, so I’m making this a permanent post by copying my signature in full.)

 

[ProdigalSun]

And the reasons for this are because many Orthodox believe that no Church council can be considered ecumenical until the “whole Church” has accepted it. This “receptionism” theory unwittingly encourages individual believers to pick and choose what he will or won’t accept from the hierarchy of his Church. Rather than the Church judging, guiding and correcting the individual on his journey through life, each Orthodox now exercises private judgment of the Church as it passes through history!

This problem is exacerbated by Orthodoxy’s rejection of the supremacy of the successor of Peter as head of the universal Church and its denial of papal infallibility. By separating its Patriarchs from their God-ordained head, the Bishop of Rome, Orthodoxy has undermined the authority of its own patriarchs to teach authoritatively and infallibly. Thus, in denying the Bishop of Rome anything more than an empty “primacy of honor”, Orthodoxy has relegated its patriarchs to that same empty “primacy of honor” amongst its other bishops.

Thus, even if the patriarchs decided to re-unite with Rome, the laity could just vote with their feet as you suggest.QUOTE]

Very True!

 

[Eric_Hyom]

And the reasons for this are because many Orthodox believe that no Church council can be considered ecumenical until the “whole Church” has accepted it. This “receptionism” theory unwittingly encourages individual believers to pick and choose what he will or won’t accept from the hierarchy of his Church. Rather than the Church judging, guiding and correcting the individual on his journey through life, each Orthodox now exercises private judgment of the Church as it passes through history!

This problem is exacerbated by Orthodoxy’s rejection of the supremacy of the successor of Peter as head of the universal Church and its denial of papal infallibility. By separating its Patriarchs from their God-ordained head, the Bishop of Rome, Orthodoxy has undermined the authority of its own patriarchs to teach authoritatively and infallibly. Thus, in denying the Bishop of Rome anything more than an empty “primacy of honor”, Orthodoxy has relegated its patriarchs to that same empty “primacy of honor” amongst its other bishops.

Thus, even if the patriarchs decided to re-unite with Rome, the laity could just vote with their feet as you suggest.

(My signature changes from time to time, so I’m making this a permanent post by copying my signature in full.)

Any search for unity must have the greatest commandments at the top of the agenda, we can do nothing greater, yet there is no mention of them. Christ did not say the greatest commandment is to follow the successors of Peter.

1 Corinthians 1:

What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas (Peter) still another, “I follow Christ.”

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Any search for unity must have the greatest commandments at the top of the agenda, we can do nothing greater, yet there is no mention of them. Christ did not say the greatest commandment is to follow the successors of Peter.

And yet, Jesus did say that the sheep know the voice of the shepherd.

Jesus is the Good Shepherd and He has one flock which He entrusted to Peter (cf. Jn 21:15-17).

Therefore, it is very important for us to listen to the voice of the successors of Peter who feed and tend Christ’s own flock.