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blitzfighter2
Guest
hey i was just windering what people thought of works vs. relaying on Jesus to get me into heaven sermonaudio.com/source_detail.asp?sourceid=newcross
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fermat
Guest
Are you asking if Catholics believe we can work our way into heaven? If you are asking that, can you give us what you current believe Catholicism teaches about the subject?
That will help us understand where you are coming from and the best way to answer your question.
That will help us understand where you are coming from and the best way to answer your question.
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
Why does it have to be one or the other with some people? frustration!
You need both. It’s like asking: “What do I need to live? Food or water?” You need both. Matter of fact, you need water to digest your food! Just like you need Christ to make your good works count for anything.
It’s a cycle. Faith in Christ produces good works, good works produce faith. The more your faith grows the more your good works and obedience increases. Where does it start? Well, which came first, the chicken or the egg?
It’s all in scripture. Faith without works is dead. Also, it is Christ who gave us something that we can never, ever, ever earn.
You need both. It’s like asking: “What do I need to live? Food or water?” You need both. Matter of fact, you need water to digest your food! Just like you need Christ to make your good works count for anything.
It’s a cycle. Faith in Christ produces good works, good works produce faith. The more your faith grows the more your good works and obedience increases. Where does it start? Well, which came first, the chicken or the egg?
It’s all in scripture. Faith without works is dead. Also, it is Christ who gave us something that we can never, ever, ever earn.
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fbl9
Guest
That’s your own error if you think it is by works alone…it’s works done in Jesus then you might actually get some where.
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Benadam
Guest
When the rich young man asked Jesus what he must do to get to heaven Jesus didn’t say anything about faith. He told this man, who could look Jesus in the eye and say he had never disobeyed the commandments, that he must obey the commandments to get to heaven.
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Aaron_I
Guest
We are saved by grace through faith working in love. An intellectual faith is a dead faith (see the book of James). Works without faith are pointless. We do good works because the grace of God prompts us to do good works. To avoid these good works is to resist God’s grace. If a sin is to great, it rejects the grace of God completely such that we are no longer in a state of grace (neither slanderers, adulterers, etc. will enter the kingdom of heaven). This is what Catholics call mortal sin. Of course, as long as one is alive, there is always the possibility of seeking forgiveness, and all sins can be forgiven if forgiveness is sought.
In short, faith without works is dead. Works without faith is dead. What matters is responding to God’s grace in our lives.
In short, faith without works is dead. Works without faith is dead. What matters is responding to God’s grace in our lives.
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kimmielittle
Guest
:clapping:
It is said, “humankind can go without water for about three days before the body starts to shutdown” IMHO Jesus’ saving grace ] …And without food for about 30 days works ].
I don’t see how one can obey the commandments Faith ]…without works. “Honor thy Father and Mother” requires action.
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kimmielittle
Guest
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blitzfighter2
Guest
i just realised what was wrong with what i said at the time i wrote this i couldn’t rember the corrects words (i have a problem saying what i mean)
what i mean was
hey i was just wondering what people thought of Works of Faith vs. Active Faith to get me into heaven which one is assured to get me into heaven without the other.
to my understanding what Catholicism essentially believes is that Jesus said on the cross ‘nearly done, you guys have to do the rest’ instead of ‘It is Finished’ and then you have to say so many hail Marys go to confession have communion etc. and the works will get you th rest of the way into heaven (kind of like having your foot stuck in the door but the gap isn’t big enough to get through
i do know the rest of the details but they are to long and arduous to type at the moment
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blitzfighter2
Guest
actually it say honor your mother and your father. i honour my father by listening to what he says and obeying his rules
but this has nothing to do with which one assures me into heaven
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thistle
Guest
You will be saved if you die in a state of grace.
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JRKH
Guest
Well Said :clapping::yup::angel1:
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JRKH
Guest
I see that you have already gotten many wonderful responses so far.
I would just suggest that, since you have posted such a brief question, that certain clarifications might be in order.
First of all, what do you mean by “Works”?
Do you mean works of Charity such as feeding the poor? Visiting the sick? Doing to the “least of your brothers”?
Secondly, what do you mean by “relying on Jesus…”.
Do you mean accepting Jesus and sitting back waiting for Him to come and pick you up?
As Whitacre Girl pointed out so well Faith and Works go hand in hand.
If we declare our faith in Christ but then do not DO as Christ Commanded then our faith will avail us nothing. (Mt 25:31-46)
If we Do many things but do not believe on Christ and on The Father, then our works will avail us nothing for we will have failed to obey the great commandments of Love.
I hope these posts willhelp you to understand that we, as catholics, do not hold to a “Works” salvation as you have probably heard. Rather we believe wholy and completely in the Salvic work of Christ, but that belief does NOT come at the expense of actually DOING that whcih Christ Commanded.
Peace
James
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JRKH
Guest
Well I will just say welcome to the boards then and assure you that many folks here will help you to understand that there are amny misconceptions out there about what Catholics believe.
I’m not entirely clear about what you are saying above. Jesus did indeed say, “It is Finished”, but what is finished and does it’s completion mean we have no part to play in our own salvation??
As to, “you have to say so many hail Marys go to confession have communion etc. and the works will get you the rest of the way into heaven”, I would ask you this…
Now that you have accepted Jesus as your savior, do you still feel the need to pray? To read the Bible? To attend worship? If you have already assured your salvation by your faith, why continue to study? Why continue to learn? Why continue to Pray? Why continue do good for your fellow man?
We pray and go to confession and do the other things for the same reason you do. Because they help us to grow in our faith so that we may better complete that work that God has prepared for us since teh foundation of the world.
Peace
James
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JRKH
Guest
blitzfighter2,
I know you have been getting a lot of good answers here but I thought I’d interject some things from “Official Church Teaching”. That is from the Catachism of the Catholic Church.
Referencing this document will help you to seperate fact from fiction when it comes to understanding what the Catholic Church teaches.
First of all I wen to the bottom of the page to the search engine and typed in "Salvation by Christ and Got THIS. 119 Hits. you will note that in looking thorugh just the first few, that the Church teaches that Salvation comes through Christ.
Next I typed in “Salvation by Works” and got THIS
You will note that in only one place in the Catachism is the term salvation and works used together and even that does not say Salvation BY works.
I believe that as you look into and read and talk to the good folks here, you’ll find that much of what seperates us is mis-information and mis-understanding and differing terms or emphasis on similar things.
Peace
James
I know you have been getting a lot of good answers here but I thought I’d interject some things from “Official Church Teaching”. That is from the Catachism of the Catholic Church.
Referencing this document will help you to seperate fact from fiction when it comes to understanding what the Catholic Church teaches.
First of all I wen to the bottom of the page to the search engine and typed in "Salvation by Christ and Got THIS. 119 Hits. you will note that in looking thorugh just the first few, that the Church teaches that Salvation comes through Christ.
Next I typed in “Salvation by Works” and got THIS
You will note that in only one place in the Catachism is the term salvation and works used together and even that does not say Salvation BY works.
I believe that as you look into and read and talk to the good folks here, you’ll find that much of what seperates us is mis-information and mis-understanding and differing terms or emphasis on similar things.
Peace
James
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VociMike
Guest
If you show no love and no obedience, will you still go to heaven?
If nothing is required of you to go to heaven, why doesn’t everybody go to heaven?
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Teneas
Guest
Same thing. If you are faithful, you will work. If you have faith, you will work. I always found this topic to be more a misinterpretation of the words.
Faith=Work.
Active Faith is being active in your faith, and working for Christ.
Works of Faith are works done by those that are faithful.
Both sides of this, most of the time anyway, at the core are saying the same exact thing. We just get hung up on titles to much.
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Ignatius
Guest
Dont’ be misled by these false strawman arguments. The Catholic Church does not teach at works gets you to heaven. That audio does falsly imply Catholics believe in works salvation. It is completely false.
You can avoid being misled by these false arguments by fact-checking that type of false accusation against what The Catholic Church actually teaches. Look here: amazon.com/Catechism-Catholic-Church-U-S/dp/0385479670.
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crazzeto
Guest
Faith working through love are what will Merity you Gods Grace which is the only thing that can get you into heaven. I’m not sure if this is a hit and run or not, but if it’s not I’d be more than happy to discuss this further with you. God bless!
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