Wine before mass

[musicmantg11]

I attended a daily mass the other day and when it came time for the preparation of the gifts and altar, the altar servers brought out two chalices and gave them to the priest and then the priest said the blessing (Blessed are you, Lord God…) over them. They must have poured the wine in the chalices prior to Mass. Is this okay?

 

[benedictgal]

I attended a daily mass the other day and when it came time for the preparation of the gifts and altar, the altar servers brought out two chalices and gave them to the priest and then the priest said the blessing (Blessed are you, Lord God…) over them. They must have poured the wine in the chalices prior to Mass. Is this okay?

This is what the GIRM notes:

The Preparation of the Gifts

1. At the beginning of the Liturgy of the Eucharist the gifts, which will become Christ’s Body and Blood, are brought to the altar.

First, the altar, the Lord’s table, which is the center of the whole Liturgy of the Eucharist,70 is prepared by placing on it the corporal, purificator, Missal, and chalice (unless the chalice is prepared at the credence table).

The offerings are then brought forward. It is praiseworthy for the bread and wine to be presented by the faithful. They are then accepted at an appropriate place by the priest or the deacon and carried to the altar. Even though the faithful no longer bring from their own possessions the bread and wine intended for the liturgy as in the past, nevertheless the rite of carrying up the offerings still retains its force and its spiritual significance.

It is well also that money or other gifts for the poor or for the Church, brought by the faithful or collected in the church, should be received. These are to be put in a suitable place but away from the eucharistic table.

1. The procession bringing the gifts is accompanied by the Offertory chant (cf. above, no. 37b), which continues at least until the gifts have been placed on the altar. The norms on the manner of singing are the same as for the Entrance chant (cf. above, no. 48). Singing may always accompany the rite at the offertory, even when there is no procession with the gifts.

1. The bread and wine are placed on the altar by the priest to the accompaniment of the prescribed formulas. The priest may incense the gifts placed upon the altar and then incense the cross and the altar itself, so as to signify the Church’s offering and prayer rising like incense in the sight of God. Next, the priest, because of his sacred ministry, and the people, by reason of their baptismal dignity, may be incensed by the deacon or another minister.

1. The priest then washes his hands at the side of the altar, a rite that is an expression of his desire for interior purification.

I do not thnk that there is anything in the GIRM about waiving the norms to prepare the chalices ahead of time.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I attended a daily mass the other day and when it came time for the preparation of the gifts and altar, the altar servers brought out two chalices and gave them to the priest and then the priest said the blessing (Blessed are you, Lord God…) over them. They must have poured the wine in the chalices prior to Mass. Is this okay?

At daily mass there would be nothing incorrect to prepare the chalice before Mass is that is necessary. At sunday Mass the chalice should be prepared on the altar for all to see, however it also would not be incorrect to pre-prepare it if necessary for some reason.

 

[benedictgal]

At daily mass there would be nothing incorrect to prepare the chalice before Mass is that is necessary. At sunday Mass the chalice should be prepared on the altar for all to see, however it also would not be incorrect to pre-prepare it if necessary for some reason.

Thank you for setting me straight on this. Ideally, though, it would be proper to do this during the Mass.

 

[zab]

I attended a daily mass the other day and when it came time for the preparation of the gifts and altar, the altar servers brought out two chalices and gave them to the priest and then the priest said the blessing (Blessed are you, Lord God…) over them. They must have poured the wine in the chalices prior to Mass. Is this okay?

There is only one chalice used at Mass, and that is the priest’s chalice. The other sacred vessel with a stem is called a ciborium and that contains the hosts. On the occassions where everyone receives the Precious blood, the other vessels, even though they may look like chalices are called cups.
I’m wondering if you have mistaken the ciborium for a second chalice.

 

[musicmantg11]

I’m positive they were cups (common cups). One was the priests and the other was an extra cup for the congregation. They had two Eucharistic Ministers help with both chalices at Communion time.

 

[bpbasilphx]

At daily mass there would be nothing incorrect to prepare the chalice before Mass is that is necessary. …

This actually was what was called for in the Dominican Missal, if I’m not mistaken.

 

[OhMalley]

At daily mass there would be nothing incorrect to prepare the chalice before Mass is that is necessary. At sunday Mass the chalice should be prepared on the altar for all to see, however it also would not be incorrect to pre-prepare it if necessary for some reason.

There is absolutely no distinction between daily and Sunday Mass.

 

[benedictgal]

I’m positive they were cups (common cups). One was the priests and the other was an extra cup for the congregation. They had two Eucharistic Ministers help with both chalices at Communion time.

You mean two Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. Please remember that the only ones who can be called Eucharistic Ministers are the priests and bishops since they are the ones who confect, that is to say, cause to happen, the Eucharist.

By the way, the priest’s chalice should be distinct from the other chalice.

 

[FrDavid96]

There is only one chalice used at Mass, and that is the priest’s chalice. The other sacred vessel with a stem is called a ciborium and that contains the hosts. On the occassions where everyone receives the Precious blood, the other vessels, even though they may look like chalices are called cups.
I’m wondering if you have mistaken the ciborium for a second chalice.

Actually, the difference between a “chalice” and a “cup” is that a chalice has a node, a cup does not.

There must be at least one chalice, but there can be any number/combination of other chalices and cups used, as long as there are not more of these vessels than are actually needed.

 

[FrDavid96]

At daily mass there would be nothing incorrect to prepare the chalice before Mass is that is necessary. At sunday Mass the chalice should be prepared on the altar for all to see, however it also would not be incorrect to pre-prepare it if necessary for some reason.

I seem to remember that there was a specific norm which said that if necessary, chalices/cups could be prepared beforehand–in the case of a large number of vessels if the congregation is large, for example, but I can’t actually find it in the current norms.

The norms for distribution of Communion say:

1. The altar is prepared with corporal, purificator, Missal, and chalice (unless the chalice is prepared at a side table) by the deacon and the servers. The gifts of bread and wine are brought forward by the faithful and received by the priest or deacon or at a convenient place.(Cf.GIRM, no.333). If one chalice is not sufficient for Holy Communion to be distributed under both kinds to the Priest concelebrants or Christ’s faithful, several chalices are placed on a corporal on the altar in an appropraite place, filled with wine. It is praiseworthy that the main chalice be larger than the other chalices prepared for distribution.

The text “(unless the chalice is prepared at a side table)” appears exactly that way in the document–with the parentheses. Although it is not very clear what this means, it’s certainly implies that there is some way, or some circumstances in which the wine & water might be already poured into the chalice before Mass.

 

[OhMalley]

You mean two Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. Please remember that the only ones who can be called Eucharistic Ministers are the priests and bishops since they are the ones who confect, that is to say, cause to happen, the Eucharist.

By the way, the priest’s chalice should be distinct from the other chalice.

No that’s not true. While it’s praiseworthy for it to be larger it need not be.

 

[zab]

There is only one chalice used at Mass, and that is the priest’s chalice. The other sacred vessel with a stem is called a ciborium and that contains the hosts. On the occassions where everyone receives the Precious blood, the other vessels, even though they may look like chalices are called cups.
I’m wondering if you have mistaken the ciborium for a second chalice.

From Redeptionis Sacramentum:
[105.] If one chalice is not sufficient for Communion to be distributed under both kinds to the Priest concelebrants or Christ’s faithful, there is no reason why the Priest celebrant should not use several chalices.[193]* For it is to be remembered that all Priests in celebrating Holy Mass are bound to receive Communion under both kinds. It is praiseworthy, by reason of the sign value, to use a main chalice of larger dimensions, together with smaller chalices.*

 

[allhers]

No that’s not true. While it’s praiseworthy for it to be larger it need not be.

Benedictgal also said distinct from the other, not necessairly larger.

Ergo the node Fr. David spoke of?? ( I’m guessing.)

In other words is it alright if they are all the same size as long as the Chalice has a node, therefore it would be different (distinct) from the others.

What the heck happened to the type face as I was typing?
It looks smaller now

 

[FrDavid96]

Benedictgal also said distinct from the other, not necessairly larger.

Ergo the node Fr. David spoke of?? ( I’m guessing.)

In other words is it alright if they are all the same size as long as the Chalice has a node, therefore it would be different (distinct) from the others.

What the heck happened to the type face as I was typing?
It looks smaller now

The node has nothing to do with size.

A chalice must have 4 parts: base, stem, node, and cup. That’s by definition. If it doesn’t have a node, it’s not a chalice.

Any chalice may be used as a “common cup” for the Blood of Christ, but a cup (w/o node) can’t be used as a chalice.

Usually, Church documents only speak of “chalices.”
“Common cups” are more of a marketing tool used by sacred-vessel manufacturers to allow for “sets” of vessels. One chalice, 4 common cups, and they all look like they belong together, is cheaper than buying 5 identical chalices, so a parish is more likely to spend the money on the whole set.

RS 105 says that it is “praiseworthy…to use a main chalice of larger dimensions” but this isn’t strictly-speaking required. (the word, after all, is praiseworthy and not required).

I can imagine some scenarios where there might be a good reason for using a main chalice that’s smaller than the others; especially if it’s more ornate, or has some specific spiritual or historic value. But this would have to be done in such a way that the other chalices do not detract from the main chalice as the focal-point.

 

[allhers]

The node has nothing to do with size.

A chalice must have 4 parts: base, stem, node, and cup. That’s by definition. If it doesn’t have a node, it’s not a chalice.

Any chalice may be used as a “common cup” for the Blood of Christ, but a cup (w/o node) can’t be used as a chalice.

Usually, Church documents only speak of “chalices.”
“Common cups” are more of a marketing tool used by sacred-vessel manufacturers to allow for “sets” of vessels. One chalice, 4 common cups, and they all look like they belong together, is cheaper than buying 5 identical chalices, so a parish is more likely to spend the money on the whole set.

RS 105 says that it is “praiseworthy…to use a main chalice of larger dimensions” but this isn’t strictly-speaking required. (the word, after all, is praiseworthy and not required).

I can imagine some scenarios where there might be a good reason for using a main chalice that’s smaller than the others; especially if it’s more ornate, or has some specific spiritual or historic value. But this would have to be done in such a way that the other chalices do not detract from the main chalice as the focal-point.

Thank you for the explanation Father, I’ve never been a good guesser.

I completely understand now.

 

[Phemie]

There is only one chalice used at Mass, and that is the priest’s chalice. The other sacred vessel with a stem is called a ciborium and that contains the hosts. On the occassions where everyone receives the Precious blood, the other vessels, even though they may look like chalices are called cups.
I’m wondering if you have mistaken the ciborium for a second chalice.

It all depends where you go to Mass. We have chalices; no ‘cups’, only chalices. At Sunday Mass, and any other Mass where we have a large congregation, we use 2 identical ones. The rest of the time, we only use one.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

There is absolutely no distinction between daily and Sunday Mass.

Actually there are several distinctions between the norms for daily Mass and Sunday/Holy Day Mass.

 

[zab]

It all depends where you go to Mass. We have chalices; no ‘cups’, only chalices. At Sunday Mass, and any other Mass where we have a large congregation, we use 2 identical ones. The rest of the time, we only use one.

You could say that we only have chalices, too. The priest has a chalice with the node. Then we have four “cups” made of precious metals. They look like silver chalices with gold interiors but they do not have a node on the stem. They are very nice.

 

[Phemie]

You could say that we only have chalices, too. The priest has a chalice with the node. Then we have four “cups” made of precious metals. They look like silver chalices with gold interiors but they do not have a node on the stem. They are very nice.

All of the ‘cups’ in our sacristy cupboards are chalices. All are gold vessels and all have the node. We’ve never bought anything that could be deemed ‘cups’.