There is nothing demeaning with using “cups” as I have described. According to Redemptionis Sacramentum #105: " It is praiseworthy, by reason of the sign value, to use a main chalice of larger dimensions, together with smaller chalices.".All of the ‘cups’ in our sacristy cupboards are chalices. All are gold vessels and all have the node. We’ve never bought anything that could be deemed ‘cups’.
I didn’t say it was demeaning, I said ‘deemed’ as in ‘considered to be’ cups. Considering that Redemptionis Sacramentum doesn’t want us to use kitchen terms for the sacred vessels, doesn’t it somehow follow that it doesn’t want us to use anything but chalices? After all, there is nothing that says that you can’t have a more ornate chalice for the priest and plain chalices for the congregation. In our case we’ve always used two identical chalices since it’s not forbidden to do so. If it became forbidden we’d just have one of our more ornate chalices replated to replace one of the plainer chalices.There is nothing demeaning with using “cups” as I have described. According to Redemptionis Sacramentum #105: " It is praiseworthy, by reason of the sign value, to use a main chalice of larger dimensions, together with smaller chalices.".
It sounds like you are saying that the cups that I have described to you are somehow less than perfect for distributing the Precious Blood because they do not have the node in the stem like the chalice that the priest uses. And I believe that is a wrong assumption to make.I didn’t say it was demeaning, I said ‘deemed’ as in ‘considered to be’ cups. Considering that Redemptionis Sacramentum doesn’t want us to use kitchen terms for the sacred vessels, doesn’t it somehow follow that it doesn’t want us to use anything but chalices? After all, there is nothing that says that you can’t have a more ornate chalice for the priest and plain chalices for the congregation. In our case we’ve always used two identical chalices since it’s not forbidden to do so. If it became forbidden we’d just have one of our more ornate chalices replated to replace one of the plainer chalices.
The node is recommended for easily handling but it doesn’t say anywhere in the GIRM or in Inaestimabile donum that it is not a chalice if it doesn’t have a node.The node has nothing to do with size.
A chalice must have 4 parts: base, stem, node, and cup. That’s by definition. If it doesn’t have a node, it’s not a chalice.
Any chalice may be used as a “common cup” for the Blood of Christ, but a cup (w/o node) can’t be used as a chalice.
Usually, Church documents only speak of “chalices.”
“Common cups” are more of a marketing tool used by sacred-vessel manufacturers to allow for “sets” of vessels. One chalice, 4 common cups, and they all look like they belong together, is cheaper than buying 5 identical chalices, so a parish is more likely to spend the money on the whole set.
RS 105 says that it is “praiseworthy…to use a main chalice of larger dimensions” but this isn’t strictly-speaking required. (the word, after all, is praiseworthy and not required).
I can imagine some scenarios where there might be a good reason for using a main chalice that’s smaller than the others; especially if it’s more ornate, or has some specific spiritual or historic value. But this would have to be done in such a way that the other chalices do not detract from the main chalice as the focal-point.
Zab,The node is recommended for easily handling but it doesn’t say anywhere in the GIRM or in Inaestimabile donum that it is not a chalice if it doesn’t have a node.
Inaestimabile donum:
a. the Mass
291. Chalices and other vessels that serve as receptacles for the blood of the Lord are to have a cup of nonabsorbent material. The base may be of any other solid and worthy material.
- Particular respect and care are due to the sacred vessels, both the chalice and paten for the celebration of the Eucharist, and the ciboria for the Communion of the faithful. The form of the vessels must be appropriate for the liturgical use for which they are meant. The material must be noble, durable, and in every case adapted to sacred use. In this sphere, judgment belongs to the episcopal conference of the individual regions
**
The GIRM
Chapter VI
and
295. The artist may fashion the sacred vessels in a shape that is in keeping with the culture of each region, provided each type of vessel is suited to the intended liturgical use.
I appreciate the clarification. But there is one more thing I have to ask. Where does it say that if it doesn’t have a node it cannot be used as a chalice?Zab,
No one is demeaning what your parish uses. I am simply providing some information on the different definitions of “chalice” and “cup”
A chalice must, by definition, have a node.
If the vessel does not have a node, it is therefore not a chalice but a cup.
It’s simply the definitions of the words–nothing more than that.
The documents you’ve quoted describe the materials used to make a chalice, they do not attempt to define the word “chalice.”
Zab,I appreciate the clarification. But there is one more thing I have to ask. Where does it say that if it doesn’t have a node it cannot be used as a chalice?
Again, thanks for the information. When we use the word “chalice”, we are talking about the definition. I take your word for it that there is some document describing a chalice is what is prescribed for priests to use. But I guess there will always be an exception- where a “chalice” is not available for some dire reason. But I understand that in normal circumstances, a priest should use a chalice not a cup.Zab,
Once again, I’m speaking of the definition of the word chalice. There is a document out there from around the time of Vat. II which does in fact describe a chalice as having those 4 parts: base (foot), stem, node and cup.
I’m searching for it right now. Perhaps someone else knows of it?
I’m getting rather frustrated because all of my internet searches reveal thousands of webpages of places selling chalices, and it’s making the search rather difficult.
When I find it, I’ll let you know.
Zab,There is only one chalice used at Mass, and that is the priest’s chalice. The other sacred vessel with a stem is called a ciborium and that contains the hosts. On the occassions where everyone receives the Precious blood, the other vessels, even though they may look like chalices are called cups.
I’m wondering if you have mistaken the ciborium for a second chalice.