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sma
Guest
If the priest doesn’t use all of the wine in the cruet for the consecration, doesn’t what is unused need to be capped in the cruet? Wouldn’t the wine that is left open be consecrated along with what is in the chalice?
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Dr.Colossus
Guest
Our priest mentioned something about this sort of thing in his homily. I haven’t been able to back it up with official Church sources, but here’s the gist of it:
Basically, consecration of the bread and wine require the intent to consecrate. If two vessels of wine are on the altar, and the priest only intends to consecrate one, the other is not consecrated, whether it is left open or not. The same goes for the bread. In some parishes, the turnout at Mass can vary by a large degree, so the priest will actually separate some of the hosts if there are too many, and only consecrate as many as are needed. At the end of Mass, if any hosts are left over, the consecrated ones are placed in the tabernacle, but the other hosts are simply returned to storage. Even if they were on the altar, the priest did not consecrate them, so they are still just bread.
Basically, consecration of the bread and wine require the intent to consecrate. If two vessels of wine are on the altar, and the priest only intends to consecrate one, the other is not consecrated, whether it is left open or not. The same goes for the bread. In some parishes, the turnout at Mass can vary by a large degree, so the priest will actually separate some of the hosts if there are too many, and only consecrate as many as are needed. At the end of Mass, if any hosts are left over, the consecrated ones are placed in the tabernacle, but the other hosts are simply returned to storage. Even if they were on the altar, the priest did not consecrate them, so they are still just bread.
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Crusader
Guest
ALL wine and hosts that are not to be consecrated need to be removed from the altar prior to the consecration.
The “intent” viewpoint is valid and all, but it simply makes no sense to leave any wine/hosts on the altar that are not to be consecrated.
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Brendan
Guest
Now, I do agree with Crusader that all un-needed matter should be removed from the altar (that’s what altar boys are there for after all), sometimes (in hopefully rare circumstances) that it cannot be done. If there are no altar boys, acolytes or deacons to assist in the removal of the matter would be a good example.
According to the rubrics, the matter for consecration must be placed on the corporal. To do otherwise, is therefore illicit (but not necessarily invalid).
It is commonly recognized that matter deliberately set off of the corporal is an definitive acknowledgment of denial of intent.
Without intent, the Sacrament does not occur for the excluded matter.
According to the rubrics, the matter for consecration must be placed on the corporal. To do otherwise, is therefore illicit (but not necessarily invalid).
It is commonly recognized that matter deliberately set off of the corporal is an definitive acknowledgment of denial of intent.
Without intent, the Sacrament does not occur for the excluded matter.
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Paul_Francis
Guest
Wine and bread no to be consecrated should be removed from altar, in order not to confuse those of us in the congregation.
Previous posters have said that what is on the corporal is what is consecrated, but those of us in the pews can not tell where those boundaries are. Therefore, we may believe all wine and bread on the altar has become the Body and Blood of Christ at the Consecration.
This could lead to the congregation being scanadalized by hosts not being placed in tabernacle after Communion, or wine just left in cruets that were on altar being stored away, or whatever.
It is understood by us plain Catholics that if wine and hosts are not on the altar they aren’t consecrated during the Mass.
Previous posters have said that what is on the corporal is what is consecrated, but those of us in the pews can not tell where those boundaries are. Therefore, we may believe all wine and bread on the altar has become the Body and Blood of Christ at the Consecration.
This could lead to the congregation being scanadalized by hosts not being placed in tabernacle after Communion, or wine just left in cruets that were on altar being stored away, or whatever.
It is understood by us plain Catholics that if wine and hosts are not on the altar they aren’t consecrated during the Mass.
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drforjc
Guest
Also, UNconsecrated hosts could accidentally get placed IN thet tabernacle.
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Dr.Colossus
Guest
That’s actually what my priest told the story about. Well-meaning EMHCs were placing both the consecrated and unconsecrated hosts in the tabernacle, and the priest had to explain about intent. I can’t remember exactly how that tied into the rest of his homily (it was on the Feast of Corpus Christi)
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
All Matter to be Consecrated must be on the corporal. If the priest does not intend to Consecrate what is left in the cruet and it is not on the corporal it is not consecrated. This is also part of the reason why only the priest may take a the Communion elements from the altar and hand them to the Deacon or EMHC. It is also why it is the priest who should receive the elements back from them. Preparing them for placement in the tebernacle. It is the priests responsibility to know what is and what is not Consecrated. No one but the priest should be taking, replacing or re-arranging anything on the altar after the Consecration and Communion. It would be a good recomended practice to remove excess matter (bread or wine) to a side table before the Consecration if that is possible.
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