Wine/wheat?

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Paris_Blues

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Is it true that when priests concecrate the bread and wine into the Real Presence, they have to use red wine and wheat hosts and not white wine or white hosts?
 
Not exactly. The requirements are that the wine must be made from grapes and the bread from wheat and water and unleavened. This can be found in Chapter 6 of the GIRM (319-324).

So, the wine may be any color, as long as it is unadulterated. Even white flour is made from wheat, so presumably there is no problem with this, either. The problems come when other substances, such as rice, leavening, and honey, are used to prepare the hosts.
There are a number of threads on these very topics. Very recently we discussed the red vs. white wine question.
 
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msproule:
and unleavened.
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I join in Msproule’s excellent answer. However, just to clarify, I think we should say that while using leavened bread would be illicit in the Roman Rite, it would still constitute valid matter for the sacrament. Whereas honey, rasins, rice, etc would constitute invalid matter.

What do you think? 👍

VC
 
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msproule:
Not exactly. The requirements are that the wine must be made from grapes and the bread from wheat and water and unleavened. This can be found in Chapter 6 of the GIRM (319-324).

So, the wine may be any color, as long as it is unadulterated. Even white flour is made from wheat, so presumably there is no problem with this, either. The problems come when other substances, such as rice, leavening, and honey, are used to prepare the hosts.
There are a number of threads on these very topics. Very recently we discussed the red vs. white wine question.
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Oh, I see.
🙂
 
Verbum Caro:
I join in Msproule’s excellent answer. However, just to clarify, I think we should say that while using leavened bread would be illicit in the Roman Rite, it would still constitute valid matter for the sacrament. Whereas honey, rasins, rice, etc would constitute invalid matter.

What do you think? 👍

VC
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No.

Leavening in the bread would have the same impact as say sugar. Either both types of bread could be confected into the Body of Christ (valid but not licit) or they could not (neither valid nor licit.)
 
Verbum Caro:
However, just to clarify, I think we should say that while using leavened bread would be illicit in the Roman Rite, it would still constitute valid matter for the sacrament.
Click to expand...
Good point, Verbum Caro.

First of all, leavened bread *is *both licitly and validly used in other Rites of the Catholic Church. I should have included that fact earlier. The leavened vs. unleavened debate (within the Latin Rite) is another contentious one at times! Perhaps I should have simply answered the question as originally posed by Paris Blues! But since this can of worms is already open…

The GIRM states:
320. The bread for celebrating the Eucharist must be made only from wheat, must be recently baked, and, according to the ancient tradition of the Latin Church, must be unleavened.
Redemptionis Sacramentum adds:
48. The bread used in the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharistic Sacrifice must be unleavened, purely of wheat, and recently made so that there is no danger of decomposition…
  1. Although the gravity of a matter is to be judged in accordance with the common teaching of the Church and the norms established by her, objectively to be considered among grave matters is anything that puts at risk the validity and dignity of the Most Holy Eucharist: namely, anything that contravenes what is set out above in nn. 48-52
    Both of these statements echo what is found in Canon Law:
    Can. 926 According to the ancient tradition of the Latin Church, the priest is to use unleavened bread in the eucharistic celebration whenever he offers it.
Clearly, to use leavened bread in the Latin Rite is illicit. However, the closest thing I see to rendering leavened bread invalid matter is paragraph 173 from RS (provided above), where the at least the risk to validity is addressed. Nevertheless, I have heard of Latin Rite Bishops using leavened bread to confect the Eucharist. As with so many other things, there seems to be some room for interpretation, which in my opinion is dangerous.
 
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AltarMan:
No.

Leavening in the bread would have the same impact as say sugar. Either both types of bread could be confected into the Body of Christ (valid but not licit) or they could not (neither valid nor licit.)
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AltarMan, I’m sorry, but could clarify what you are saying for me? I don’t want to sow any confusion on this issue.

I was pointing out that, to the best of my knowledge, leavened bread is still valid matter for the sacrament (if it was not valid matter it would not be possible for Eastern Rite churches to confect the Eucharist.) It is a minor point, because leavened bread is illicit in the Roman Rite, and so should never be used.

Msproule, thank you for your response! I wasn’t aware of any argument regarding whether or not leavening (at least yeast leavening) would invalidate the sacrament. It seems obvious to me that it doesn’t since the various Eastern Rites do use leavened bread. But perhaps you are aware of some contention on this issue? Please let me know.

Thanks!
God Bless,
VC
 
VC,

According to this link, this other link, as well as this one, you are correct about validity. I found these through a search of these forums. Do the same and you will see other opinions, as well.

Personally, I must also conclude that leavened matter is valid. However, I fail to understand why any priest or Bishop of the Latin Rite would test the waters in such important things, unless out of grave necessity.

In Christ,
Michael
 
Addendum:

Since no party can ever really get started without Aquinas, let’s see what he had to say:

Whether this sacrament ought to be made of unleavened bread?
I answer that, Two things may be considered touching the matter of this sacrament namely, what is necessary, and what is suitable. It is necessary that the bread be wheaten, without which the sacrament is not valid, as stated above (3). It is not, however, necessary for the sacrament that the bread be unleavened or leavened, since it can be celebrated in either.

But it is suitable that every priest observe the rite of his Church in the celebration of the sacrament. Now in this matter there are various customs of the Churches
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Check and check. 👍
VC
 
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