WISCONSIN: Churches Specifically Targeted With Restrictions as Other Buildings Open. ACTION ITEM!
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Neither article have links to the Diocese website/social media. Does anyone have something other than rumors?
Found this on the Diocese website:
I’ve read the order, I cannot find anything about “watchers”
Religious Entities. Religious entities are entities that are organized and operated
for a religious purpose. Examples include, but are not limited to mosques,
synagogues, temples, churches and nondenominational ministries. Religious
entities are required to follow Sections. 2 and 4 of this Order.
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dscath
Guest
Even when masses open up to only 25%, I’m not hurrying to the Church…it’s not my needs I am concerning myself with, but those who feel they must be in the pews…may God bless them, and may God grant me the patience to allow my neighbor satisfy their owns need…showing love for others proves our love for God, since both commandments are equally as great.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I haven’t found a link either. I think Fr. Heilman said he got a phone call.
However, I have been following Fr. Heilman’s prayer group on social media for about 3 years now and he doesn’t lie or exaggerate about this sort of stuff. He already has a humongous following and doesn’t need to make up scare stories to get more. I wouldn’t be surprised by it either as there have been reports of Wisconsin having a spike in COVID cases.
Edited to add, I’m sure if they’re going to be dragging away priests in their vestments, Fr. Z will volunteer to be first in line. I don’t mean that badly, I’m just saying that he would be.
Anyway, I already said I’d pray in support of them since obviously I am nowhere near Wisconsin and can’t go calling reps or marching on the state capitol. I also suggested that they should get a lawyer when they are done marching but I’m sure the diocese is already doing that.
However, I have been following Fr. Heilman’s prayer group on social media for about 3 years now and he doesn’t lie or exaggerate about this sort of stuff. He already has a humongous following and doesn’t need to make up scare stories to get more. I wouldn’t be surprised by it either as there have been reports of Wisconsin having a spike in COVID cases.
Edited to add, I’m sure if they’re going to be dragging away priests in their vestments, Fr. Z will volunteer to be first in line. I don’t mean that badly, I’m just saying that he would be.
Anyway, I already said I’d pray in support of them since obviously I am nowhere near Wisconsin and can’t go calling reps or marching on the state capitol. I also suggested that they should get a lawyer when they are done marching but I’m sure the diocese is already doing that.
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yankeesouth
Guest
And that’s fine if that is your choice and dispensation is granted but this is a religious liberty issue in principle. When President Trump made his statement to open up the churches, it wasn’t directed at religious leaders, it was directed at local governments.
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dscath
Guest
Actually it’s not…it is an issue of public health.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
It may very well be a Constitutional violation to single out places of worship and treat them differently than you’re treating Home Depot.
I sure wouldn’t want to be going before a federal court arguing for the state on that issue.
Not to mention that a court case would cost the state money and be a big distraction when the state could be focusing on more important matters right now.
I sure wouldn’t want to be going before a federal court arguing for the state on that issue.
Not to mention that a court case would cost the state money and be a big distraction when the state could be focusing on more important matters right now.
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yankeesouth
Guest
Here is Father’s homily about it…
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TC3033
Guest
That was one of the first things I tried to do too, nothing.
My sister and BIL went to Wisconsin for the races tonight…that’s a reason I wonder about the validity. The Governor was sued and lost to the Supreme Court about a week ago indicating that his extension of the stay at home order was unconstitutional and he had 6 days to open the state up.
I don’t live in Wisco, but they were about 5 min from our house where I grew up.
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otjm
Guest
I think Wisconsin must have found that attorneys practicing Constitutional Law did not have enough business.
Given that the past Democratic National Committee chairwoman just said on national television that the 1st Amendment does not protect anyone telling a lie, I can’t even imagine how such a law against churches could come about.
And before anyone brings fire down upon me, that is called sarcasm. Not meant specifically to target anyone; it is just a commentary on how little people have been taught about our country and its Constitution.
Given that the past Democratic National Committee chairwoman just said on national television that the 1st Amendment does not protect anyone telling a lie, I can’t even imagine how such a law against churches could come about.
And before anyone brings fire down upon me, that is called sarcasm. Not meant specifically to target anyone; it is just a commentary on how little people have been taught about our country and its Constitution.
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Pattylt
Guest
Has anyone found the reasoning behind limiting religious worship to 50 people vs 25% capacity? It seems that if every other similar gathering…theaters, concerts, sports stadiums, etc. where people gather and sit…even 6’ apart…but ONLY places of worship have this restriction, then there is a problem. So, if you ever find out what their reasoning is for this, I’d like to know. Somehow, I don’t think it’s because they have some grudge against religion as most of them are probably some religion, too!
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otjm
Guest
If Wisconsin has specifically singled out churches to have a lower capacity than other businesses, (and a rather fast reading appears to allow other businesses to have 25% capacity and churches only 50 people) then there is a prima facia case of specific discrimination; the State would have to show specific public health information that would indicate that a church, which could seat 500 or 600 people would be less safe than any other business with 25%.
A bishop with a whole lot of brass should say “We will comply with the 25% rule; we will not pay any fines; and please make sure you spell my name right on the summons.”
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pnewton
Guest
Wearing brown shirts, no doubt.
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JulianN
Guest
In looking at the Dane County reopening plan, phase 1, it appears that the county is using this definition for churches:
“Indoor gatherings at commercial facilities of 50 people or fewer are allowed, with physical distancing.”
As opposed to considering them under the retail business category, which uses 25% capacity.
I’m not sure that’s ”targeting churches.”
“Indoor gatherings at commercial facilities of 50 people or fewer are allowed, with physical distancing.”
As opposed to considering them under the retail business category, which uses 25% capacity.
I’m not sure that’s ”targeting churches.”
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otjm
Guest
So the attorneys can file the lawsuit in Federal court and the powers that be can defend their change. That is what courts are for,
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Freddy
Guest
Indeed. The churches are being treated the same as anyone else:yankeesouth:
Actually it’s not…it is an issue of public health.
'City of Madison Assistant City Attorney Marci Paulsen insisted to NBC15 News that religious entities are being treated the same as other essential businesses per Public Health Madison & Dane County’s stay-at-home order issued two weeks ago.
According to the “Forward Dane” order, all places that hold a mass gathering, including places of worship, concerts, movie theaters, conventions and other venues, are limited to the same limit of 25 percent of capacity up to 50 people, whichever is less. A “mass gathering” is defined as a “planned event with a large number of individuals in attendance, such as a concert, festival, meetings, training, conference, religious service, or sporting event," according to the “Forward Dane” order’. Dane Co. churches must maintain capacity of 50 people or face up to $1K fine
And from the same link (my emphasis):
Assistant City Attorney Paulsen as well as Public Health officials tell NBC15 News that enforcement will remain voluntary.
“There are no ‘government watchers’ who will be policing any business or religious entity. In the shared spirit of keeping our friends, neighbors, and loved ones well, we ask everyone to identify ways to comply with these orders to reduce the risk of transmission of COVID-19,” according to Public Health in an email.
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JulianN
Guest
Seems a bit like wasting time and money unless there’s a lot more information missing that indicates churches are being treated differently than other places where people gather—but sure.
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
Are you pro-riot or pro-protest?
How is staying home from church going to help what’s going on in a particular police district?
If you know of a way that people several states over from the tragic event can help, please share.
That’s not sarcasm, BTW.
How is staying home from church going to help what’s going on in a particular police district?
If you know of a way that people several states over from the tragic event can help, please share.
That’s not sarcasm, BTW.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Found a news update on this story about the protest march Catholics in Madison had yesterday.
I watched Fr Heilman’s morning Mass but he didn’t say anything more about it. Bishop Hying also isn’t saying anything at this time.
I imagine a lot of the Dane County churches will just continue with whatever they had planned and if there’s an enforcement action by the county they will plan next steps then.
I watched Fr Heilman’s morning Mass but he didn’t say anything more about it. Bishop Hying also isn’t saying anything at this time.
I imagine a lot of the Dane County churches will just continue with whatever they had planned and if there’s an enforcement action by the county they will plan next steps then.
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Anrakyr
Guest
I’m pro protest. I don’t like the violence but I understand why it’s happening. Riots are the recourse of the unheard, we have a huge police problem and no one has any legal recourse too stop it.
The point was more that complaining about the riots and comparing them too ones inability to go to church is insulting both to the victims and our intelligence. It’s not a comparable problem.
Put political pressure for police reform and deescalation training. Oppose the war on drugs as it’s a political tool that makes politicians looks good but sacrifices our minorities on the alter of “peace and stability.”
“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people,” former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper’s writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.
“You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” Ehrlichman said. “We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
The first time I read it I felt genuinely ill.
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