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TimothyH
Guest
Wisdom 16:17-19 speak of elements changing places and water not quenching fire…
**For against all expectation, in water which quenches anything, the fire grew more active; For the universe fights on behalf of the just. For now the flame was tempered so that the beasts might not be burnt up that were sent upon the wicked, but that these might see and know they were struck by the judgment of God; And again, even in the water, fire blazed beyond its strength so as to consume the produce of the wicked land. Instead of this, you nourished your people with food of angels and furnished them bread from heaven, ready to hand, untoiled-for, endowed with all delights and conforming to every taste. For this substance of yours revealed your sweetness toward your children, and serving the desire of him who received it, was blended to whatever flavor each one wished. Yet snow and ice withstood fire and were not melted, that they might know that their enemies’ fruits Were consumed by a fire that blazed in the hail and flashed lightning in the rain. But this fire, again, that the just might be nourished, forgot even its proper strength; For your creation, serving you, its maker, grows tense for punishment against the wicked, but is relaxed in benefit for those who trust in you. Therefore at that very time, transformed in all sorts of ways, it was serving your all-nourishing bounty according to what they needed and desired; ** (Wisdom 16:17-25)
And again in chapter 19…
For the elements changed places with one another, as on a harp the notes vary the nature of the rhythm, while each note remains the same. This may be clearly inferred from the sight of what took place. For land animals were transformed into water creatures, and creatures that swim moved over to the land. Fire even in water retained its normal power, and water forgot its fire-quenching nature. Flames, on the contrary, failed to consume the flesh of perishable creatures that walked among them, nor did they melt the crystalline, easily melted kind of heavenly food. (Wisom 19:18-21)
This was part of the author’s recounting of God’s providence during the Exodus from Egypt. In the verses previous to these passages, the author goes through a litany of miracles - poisonous replites, gnats, frogs and darkness in Egypt and the manna and quail in the wilderness. But my question is, does anyone know to what exactly the author is referring with regards to fire not consumed by water, water loosing its properties, and beasts not being consumed by fire? I can’t recall animals being in the midst of flames yet not consumed in the book of Exodus. I recall Hananiah Mishael and Azariah being in the firey furnace in the Book of Daniel but not in Exodus. And what is the reference to about water not quenching fire? Where is that from? Anyone know?
To me the whole thing speaks of the Eucharist, especailly bread from heaven, untoiled for, changing flavors, etc. and the texts about elements changing places, if not speaking directly to transubstantiation, clearly support it.
But I’m really wondering about the fire/water/quench/properties passage. To what is that a reference?
-Tim-
**For against all expectation, in water which quenches anything, the fire grew more active; For the universe fights on behalf of the just. For now the flame was tempered so that the beasts might not be burnt up that were sent upon the wicked, but that these might see and know they were struck by the judgment of God; And again, even in the water, fire blazed beyond its strength so as to consume the produce of the wicked land. Instead of this, you nourished your people with food of angels and furnished them bread from heaven, ready to hand, untoiled-for, endowed with all delights and conforming to every taste. For this substance of yours revealed your sweetness toward your children, and serving the desire of him who received it, was blended to whatever flavor each one wished. Yet snow and ice withstood fire and were not melted, that they might know that their enemies’ fruits Were consumed by a fire that blazed in the hail and flashed lightning in the rain. But this fire, again, that the just might be nourished, forgot even its proper strength; For your creation, serving you, its maker, grows tense for punishment against the wicked, but is relaxed in benefit for those who trust in you. Therefore at that very time, transformed in all sorts of ways, it was serving your all-nourishing bounty according to what they needed and desired; ** (Wisdom 16:17-25)
And again in chapter 19…
For the elements changed places with one another, as on a harp the notes vary the nature of the rhythm, while each note remains the same. This may be clearly inferred from the sight of what took place. For land animals were transformed into water creatures, and creatures that swim moved over to the land. Fire even in water retained its normal power, and water forgot its fire-quenching nature. Flames, on the contrary, failed to consume the flesh of perishable creatures that walked among them, nor did they melt the crystalline, easily melted kind of heavenly food. (Wisom 19:18-21)
This was part of the author’s recounting of God’s providence during the Exodus from Egypt. In the verses previous to these passages, the author goes through a litany of miracles - poisonous replites, gnats, frogs and darkness in Egypt and the manna and quail in the wilderness. But my question is, does anyone know to what exactly the author is referring with regards to fire not consumed by water, water loosing its properties, and beasts not being consumed by fire? I can’t recall animals being in the midst of flames yet not consumed in the book of Exodus. I recall Hananiah Mishael and Azariah being in the firey furnace in the Book of Daniel but not in Exodus. And what is the reference to about water not quenching fire? Where is that from? Anyone know?
To me the whole thing speaks of the Eucharist, especailly bread from heaven, untoiled for, changing flavors, etc. and the texts about elements changing places, if not speaking directly to transubstantiation, clearly support it.
But I’m really wondering about the fire/water/quench/properties passage. To what is that a reference?
-Tim-