Wise and sage advice please

[Shae]

My son is almost 24 yrs old. He still lives at home though part time. He has a girlfriend who is 22 and very much immature for even 22. She is very judgemental and I feel this is a security for her own issues. She always has an opinion on everything and they are derogatory most times. She is very outward and very much acts like a diva and entitled.

I have had many clashes with my son over her strong opinions, especially when they are in my home and directed at him. She has belittled him and called him stingy for buying the wrong cut of meat. She lounges on the bean bag shopping online on our iPad while he cooks her meals.

I feel in my own opinion that he feels he needs to buy her affections, because he pays for everything and I’ve heard her beg him to give her $500 to go shopping at ‘Allana Hill’ a little bow clip for your hair could cost $30, but that aside. I cannot interfere, no matter how many red flags I see here, he is nearly 24 and this is his life. I’ve done my best to bring him up with good morales.

She used to come to my home for a cooked meal twice a week.

I have not seen her for about 3 months now and son keeps making excuses and I believed him, but it has slowly come out, that she feels unwelcome in our home.

I made her favourite foods, pasta, gnocchi etc and tried very much to like her. I ended spending time in my own bedroom, just so nobody could see my discomfort at her and it wasnt for lenghty times, just enought catch myself.

We did small chat and some lengthier friendly chat and even sat and watched dvds together, so I’m at a loss. My son wont come right out and tell us what the pivotal moment was, just that it was a process over time, that she felt unwelcome.

I cannot be there besty when she comes over, what 20 something year old bf/gf wants their mum in their pocket. I gave them their space.

How is it that I am supposed to accept that is ‘how she is’ but when I just cannot hide my body language, that she feels unwelcome.

He is so accustomed to her behaviour and expects me to do the same, but I’m not around her as much as he is obviously, so my mouth hits the floor at her behaviour.

I can bite my tongue but obviously my body language gives me away. I dont think its possible to have another kind of reaction.

I know a family and whose son was friends with my son.

He was to be married and announced this on his 21st birthday party.

I only realised shortly after his parents thought he a bit young, but things unfolded and hearing one side of the story, it turns out his girlfriend now wife, have somehow in a way turned the son away from his family. They have not seen their son in 2 and 1/2 years.

They were not invited to their sons wedding and he returned the car his parents gave him and in the car every single present ever gave to their son, everything.

Their pain has been palpable.

My son has lost his friendship with this friend at the thought of him being able to give up his parents this way. He has lost a lot of respect for him.

But I dont think he can see how this very thing could happen in our own family, I may be over reacting, but I need to be very careful with my son and his girlfriend, he can be blind to her feminine ways.

He loves her, but he loves her far more than she he.
She is always whinging about something, someone and my son.

I am uncomfortable in knowing my own boundary and feel to easily that I am wrong when maybe I may not be.

Is it wrong for me to pray this is not the woman for my son? This is his first girlfriend.

I would really love some sage and wise advice.

Thankyou and God Bless.

 

[Cat]

You admit several times that you can’t hide your body language. So why are you so surprised that the girlfriend knows that you don’t like her? Anyone with one eye and half-sense could see that. She doesn’t sound like a stupid woman.

I’m a 56-year old mother of two daughters who are grown and long out of our house. So I feel qualified to offer wise and sage advice.

Here it comes, like it or not. I hope even if you don’t like it, you will listen anyway.

The more you push against your son’s wishes, the harder he will cling to the girlfriend.

That’s just a law of human behavior. When something is forbidden, we WANT IT really bad! But when we are given permission to have the thing, we no longer find it fascinating.

I’m not just talking about sinful or evil things. I’m talking about anything. Someone who is sitting through a long boring lecture WANTS so much to have a bottle of water, but they can’t get up and leave the lecture to go get it, but they WANT IT soooooo bad! And the instant the lecture is over, they no longer want it.

So my suggestion to you is to stop making it obvious that you do not like her. Mark my words carefully and remember them–the more you demonstrate that you do not like her, the more your son will LOVE her!

Back way off and be pleasant, cheerful, and extremely welcoming of his girlfriend. You say you can’t hide your body language–baloney, oh yes, you can. Your son’s happiness and future are at stake–keep that in mind next time you’re tempted to trot off to your bedroom and hide–good heavens, that’s so incredibly rude and mean-spirited!

You’re the grown-up here. When you are sitting in church and you are bored out of your gourd, you don’t show it by yawning, stretching, standing up and doing jumping jacks, searching through your wallet, reading the newspaper, etc, do you? So you can hide the way you feel around this girl, and treat her like an honored guest in all that you say and DO!

Become her friend NOW. If the thing that you dread happens and your son ends up marrying her, you will be glad that you became her friend, because it’s a lot worse being enemies with a daughter-in-law than with a girlfriend, especially when grandchildren come and you are not allowed to be with them.

But I predict that the friendlier and more welcoming you are, the less your son will be interested in her.

Right now, he is being her “knight in shining armor,” protecting her from you (the dragon) and giving her treasure (money, home-cooked meals, etc.) After you stop being a dragon, he will not have to defend her anymore.

One of the things that you might have to face is that your son is the way he is because you have trained him to be that way. I suspect that all his life, he has been an obedient son to his beloved mother, and honored your requests with obedience. I suspect that one reason why he still lives at home is that he feels uncomfortable leaving you behind.

In other words, he is hen-pecked and used to kowtowing to women. So it’s no wonder he jumps when his girlfriend says jump. And it’s no wonder he is attracted to a strong-minded woman–he is essentially looking to fall in love with YOU. He wants his mother, not a wife.

If I am correct about this, you will have to face it, admit that you’ve done badly, and try hard to change your ways towards him. This won’t be easy, if all his life he has been a “mama’s boy.” I would suggest a professional counselor to help you to learn to train him to break away from you and be his own strong man. This is not an easy task.

 

[Xantippe]

Cat has a lot of good advice. Here are a few more thoughts:

1. If she’s already dodging dinners, then it may be too late. Maybe invite them to some event (and pay for it) that she would enjoy–a street festival or amusement park or something?
2. Unfortunately, I’m not sure that embracing this girl is going to make the boyfriend love her less. But if the relationship is based in pure contrariness, it may work.
3. You may just bring out the worst in this young woman.
4. Even under the best circumstances, you would be losing your son to marriage. The question is not whether you lose him, the question is whether you lose him to this particular young woman. It is right that your husband will choose his future wife over you, but your job is to make sure that he doesn’t have to.
5. Are you of Italian ancestry? If so, that may affect your family dynamics–it may be particularly difficult for your son to leave your orbit.
6. As has been said previously, she knows perfectly well that you don’t like her.
7. I have been the “bad” girlfriend and wife (in my case, I felt with very little cause), so I may be giving her too much credit. On the other hand, it’s also true that you would be experiencing many of the same emotions even (or especially) if she were amazing and perfect.
8. Here’s another thought–your son may be using his girlfriend as a sort of escape pod for achieving independence from his parents.

 

[JM3]

An opinion from the male side (take with as much salt as needed).

I feel in my own opinion that he feels he needs to buy her affections, because he pays for everything and I’ve heard her beg him to give her $500 to go shopping at ‘Allana Hill’ a little bow clip for your hair could cost $30, but that aside. I cannot interfere, no matter how many red flags I see here, he is nearly 24 and this is his life. I’ve done my best to bring him up with good morales.

You can interfere and are obliged to interfere. It doesn’t matter how old he is. You are his mother. I remember my first girlfriend. My mother didn’t say it to me, but told my sister that this girl wasn’t good enough for me. Of course, I wouldn’t hear it, not even from my sister. But a little bug in the ear can do wonders. After some time, I did see it. You need to tell him what your objections are to this girl, clearly and with charity. He may argue and get angry with you, but it is for his own good.

Lay down the law for you home. As long as he lives there, even if it’s only part time, he obeys your rules. If his girlfriend cannot be charitable and act like a guest should, then she is not welcome in your home. Don’t let your son, or his girlfriend, bully you.

Pray for him. It appears that he does not know what love is.

 

[Xantippe]

JM3 said:

“As long as he lives there, even if it’s only part time, he obeys your rules. If his girlfriend cannot be charitable and act like a guest should, then she is not welcome in your home.”

The OP wrote:

“I have not seen her for about 3 months now and son keeps making excuses and I believed him, but it has slowly come out, that she feels unwelcome in our home.”

It’s not a question of her being a bad guest at their house, it’s a question of her not being a guest at all because she feels unwelcome (and let’s be honest–she is unwelcome). The OP is quite right to fear that if this young couple gets married, that she will have lost her son forever, because this young woman is obviously going to want to minimize time spent in the OP’s house.

Oh, and to the OP–bear in mind that your son is telling his girlfriend EVERYTHING that you say to him about her. I expect that largely explains why she has been boycotting your house. No matter how warmly you treat her when she visits, she knows what you’ve been telling your son about her when she’s not around. There’s nothing you tell him that she isn’t going to hear about.

This is a genuinely difficult situation. I understand perfectly that this is not the daughter-in-law you’ve been dreaming of, but unfortunately, it may be the one you’re getting.

 

[JM3]

It’s not a question of her being a bad guest at their house, it’s a question of her not being a guest at all because she feels unwelcome (and let’s be honest–she is unwelcome).

She is unwelcome because she has been a bad guest and she should not be welcomed until she can treat people with respect. That includes her son.

But that is only my opinion. No one has to listen to me.

 

[Xantippe]

She hasn’t been there for three months because she doesn’t want to visit.

The OP can’t ban the girlfriend from her home, because the girlfriend isn’t visiting.

That would be like me banning President Obama from my home. Sure, it might make me feel good, but it’s not going to affect his weekend plans at all.

 

[Evania]

My heart goes out to you. Everyone has great advice. Take it to Our Lady.

I always recommend this novena for hard situations.

Google: Mary, Undoer of Knots

God Bless and I’m praying for you!

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

You admit several times that you can’t hide your body language. So why are you so surprised that the girlfriend knows that you don’t like her? Anyone with one eye and half-sense could see that. She doesn’t sound like a stupid woman.

I’m a 56-year old mother of two daughters who are grown and long out of our house. So I feel qualified to offer wise and sage advice.

Here it comes, like it or not. I hope even if you don’t like it, you will listen anyway.

The more you push against your son’s wishes, the harder he will cling to the girlfriend.

That’s just a law of human behavior. When something is forbidden, we WANT IT really bad! But when we are given permission to have the thing, we no longer find it fascinating.

I’m not just talking about sinful or evil things. I’m talking about anything. Someone who is sitting through a long boring lecture WANTS so much to have a bottle of water, but they can’t get up and leave the lecture to go get it, but they WANT IT soooooo bad! And the instant the lecture is over, they no longer want it.

So my suggestion to you is to stop making it obvious that you do not like her. Mark my words carefully and remember them–the more you demonstrate that you do not like her, the more your son will LOVE her!

Back way off and be pleasant, cheerful, and extremely welcoming of his girlfriend. You say you can’t hide your body language–baloney, oh yes, you can. Your son’s happiness and future are at stake–keep that in mind next time you’re tempted to trot off to your bedroom and hide–good heavens, that’s so incredibly rude and mean-spirited!

You’re the grown-up here. When you are sitting in church and you are bored out of your gourd, you don’t show it by yawning, stretching, standing up and doing jumping jacks, searching through your wallet, reading the newspaper, etc, do you? So you can hide the way you feel around this girl, and treat her like an honored guest in all that you say and DO!

Become her friend NOW. If the thing that you dread happens and your son ends up marrying her, you will be glad that you became her friend, because it’s a lot worse being enemies with a daughter-in-law than with a girlfriend, especially when grandchildren come and you are not allowed to be with them.

But I predict that the friendlier and more welcoming you are, the less your son will be interested in her.

Right now, he is being her “knight in shining armor,” protecting her from you (the dragon) and giving her treasure (money, home-cooked meals, etc.) After you stop being a dragon, he will not have to defend her anymore.

One of the things that you might have to face is that your son is the way he is because you have trained him to be that way. I suspect that all his life, he has been an obedient son to his beloved mother, and honored your requests with obedience. I suspect that one reason why he still lives at home is that he feels uncomfortable leaving you behind.

In other words, he is hen-pecked and used to kowtowing to women. So it’s no wonder he jumps when his girlfriend says jump. And it’s no wonder he is attracted to a strong-minded woman–he is essentially looking to fall in love with YOU. He wants his mother, not a wife.

If I am correct about this, you will have to face it, admit that you’ve done badly, and try hard to change your ways towards him. This won’t be easy, if all his life he has been a “mama’s boy.” I would suggest a professional counselor to help you to learn to train him to break away from you and be his own strong man. This is not an easy task.

Great advice!

 

[maryjk]

She used to come to my home for a cooked meal twice a week.

I have not seen her for about 3 months now and son keeps making excuses and I believed him, but it has slowly come out, **that she feels unwelcome in our home.
**
I made her favourite foods, pasta, gnocchi etc and tried very much to like her. I ended spending time in my own bedroom, just so nobody could see my discomfort at her and it wasn’t for lengthy times, just enough to catch myself.

We did small chat and some lengthier friendly chat and even sat and watched dvds together, so I’m at a loss. My son wont come right out and tell us what the pivotal moment was, just that it was a process over time, that she felt unwelcome.

I cannot be there besty when she comes over, what 20 something year old bf/gf wants their mum in their pocket. I gave them their space.

How is it that I am supposed to accept that is ‘how she is’ but when I just cannot hide my body language, **that she feels unwelcome.
**
He is so accustomed to her behaviour and expects me to do the same, but I’m not around her as much as he is obviously, so my mouth hits the floor at her behaviour.

I can bite my tongue but obviously my body language gives me away. I don’t think its possible to have another kind of reaction.

As others have said, she doesn’t just feel unwelcome. She IS unwelcome.

And she knows it. Why? Because as you have said here, you have let her know.

My mother-in-law is like that. She has never TOLD me directly how she felt. She just make it clear that she didn’t like me. It started when my husband and I were dating and it has continued until 5 years ago. It only stopped when she decided that she didn’t want to speak to me anymore. (She hasn’t seen her grandchild in 5 year either.)

Here is the deal. YOU don’t get to choose your son’s wife. He does.

As Cat said, make friends now. Because if they get married, she will be the one talking to him about where to spend Christmas.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Jesus is the Truth. We are commanded to live the Truth.

Speak the truth, pray, and trust God. You will not be wrong.

 

[InLight247]

You can interfere and are obliged to interfere. It doesn’t matter how old he is. You are his mother.

She is unwelcome because she has been a bad guest and she should not be welcomed until she can treat people with respect. That includes her son.

Among all the advices given, I agree with the above.

As a mother, it is your responsibility to let your child know your observation. The person one marries makes a life time difference. It is critical. If you see things that concerned you, you must let your son know. The key point is to have a good relationship with your son so your opinions will be received more receptively.

Many young people today do not know what they are looking for. It is important to help them first know their own values and standards and then objectively assess if those qualities are found in the person they are dating with. Therefore, instead of directly expressing your disapproval on that girl, you may start by chatting with your son for his own value, and help him from there. You may also share with him your own life experiences - what the good qualities you find important in a spouse.

Most importantly, pray. Pray everyday, and many times in a day, storm heaven with a mother’s prayer. I remember before my daughter got married and was dating, I always prayed God to break the relationship if it was not his will, and bless the relationship if it is. That always works.

 

[Evania]

Among all the advices given, I agree with the above.

As a mother, it is your responsibility to let your child know your observation. The person one marries makes a life time difference. It is critical. If you see things that concerned you, you must let your son know. The key point is to have a good relationship with your son so your opinions will be received more receptively.

Many young people today do not know what they are looking for. It is important to help them first know their own values and standards and then objectively assess if those qualities are found in the person they are dating with. Therefore, instead of directly expressing your disapproval on that girl, you may start by chatting with your son for his own value, and help him from there. You may also share with him your own life experiences - what the good qualities you find important in a spouse.

Most importantly, pray. Pray everyday, and many times in a day, storm heaven with a mother’s prayer. I remember before my daughter got married and was dating, I always prayed God to break the relationship if it was not his will, and bless the relationship if it is. That always works.

I agree with this.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Among all the advices given, I agree with the above.

As a mother, it is your responsibility to let your child know your observation. The person one marries makes a life time difference. It is critical. If you see things that concerned you, you must let your son know. The key point is to have a good relationship with your son so your opinions will be received more receptively.

Many young people today do not know what they are looking for. It is important to help them first know their own values and standards and then objectively assess if those qualities are found in the person they are dating with. Therefore, instead of directly expressing your disapproval on that girl, you may start by chatting with your son for his own value, and help him from there. You may also share with him your own life experiences - what the good qualities you find important in a spouse.

Most importantly, pray. Pray everyday, and many times in a day, storm heaven with a mother’s prayer. I remember before my daughter got married and was dating, I always prayed God to break the relationship if it was not his will, and bless the relationship if it is. That always works.

The person in question isn’t a boy. He’s a 24 year old man.

The time to teach said man about what to look for in a spouse is through his childhood and teen years. During his childhood by modeling what a spouse should be by acting like a model spouse to our own spouses. In teen years by discussing what qualities to look for.

A 24 year old man should be competent in finding a spouse.

 

[EasterJoy]

Well, she is unwelcome, and there is a reason for that. You can tell you son why: You don’t like the way she treats him when they are in your home, you don’t want to see anyone treated like that by anyone while in your home, and while he is free to choose his friends, that much is not going to change.

IOW, she herself is welcome, but she is not welcome to treat others in your home in an impolite way. Your son realizes, surely, that you do not even let guests unleash rude speech on other guests without ever saying that it bothers you. If she were to become his wife, for instance–and do say this as if the world will not end if he does marry her–you’d stick up for anyone in the family that she was rude to, and that includes him, just as you would defend her from rude speech from anyone in the family. You will be as low-key in your approach as possible, but that kind of thing just is not going to be tolerated under your roof. As for the rest, you can admit to him that you can learn to bite your tongue about their finances, how they choose to spend their time, and so on, as that is none of your business.

But yes, treat him as an adult relative now, and not as a boy. That doesn’t mean you can never correct him, since I am sure you will pull aside a brother or even a parent for a private fraternal correction, under the right circumstances. The only thing that needs to be corrected in front of people is rudeness committed in front of people, the kind of rudeness that you are bound to speak up about right in the moment it happens, regardless of the source or the target.

 

[Cat]

The person in question isn’t a boy. He’s a 24 year old man.

The time to teach said man about what to look for in a spouse is through his childhood and teen years. During his childhood by modeling what a spouse should be by acting like a model spouse to our own spouses. In teen years by discussing what qualities to look for.

A 24 year old man should be competent in finding a spouse.

Absolutely right.

 

[Cat]

The person in question isn’t a boy. He’s a 24 year old man.

The time to teach said man about what to look for in a spouse is through his childhood and teen years. During his childhood by modeling what a spouse should be by acting like a model spouse to our own spouses. In teen years by discussing what qualities to look for.

A 24 year old man should be competent in finding a spouse.

Absolutely right.

 

[InLight247]

A mother is always a mother. A 24 years old son is still a son. It is always a mother’s obligation to let her children know her experienced observation and honest opinion. This 24 years old young man is dating his first girl friend. Even he is not a boy, he can certainly benefit from his mother’s wisdom. It’s not like once you are no longer a teenager there is nothing more you can hear from your parents. Actually in the teenage years, they don’t absorb parents’ message that well. When they get more mature, the conversation becomes better. Our purpose is to give (name removed by moderator)ut to help the OP. There is nothing to debate about.

 

[Xantippe]

InLight247 said:

“Even he is not a boy, he can certainly benefit from his mother’s wisdom.”

The OP has already had her say, she’s had a number of arguments with her son about the girlfriend, and now the girlfriend has been boycotting their house for 3 months. It’s kind of a miracle that the OP’s son is still living in her house, actually. As people have said already, if they marry, this young woman will be deciding where the OP’s grandchildren spend Christmas. The OP can’t get rid of her (Lord knows she’s tried already)–there’s really no choice but to treat her as warmly as possible and hope she goes away or improves.

After my future in-laws met me when we were first engaged, they gave my husband a long, long list of things that were wrong with me. That didn’t work, obviously. I’m not perfect, but I’m not the bloodsucking fiend they thought I was at the time, and I think they eventually figured that out.

 

[Shae]

@ cat-
I got some good pointers out of what you said.

But you did lose me half way when you slap labels on me, you know barely anything of this situation.
Your advice is good, but your tact is little to be desired. Yes your one of these ‘I sugar coat nothing’ types of people.
But I will chose other ways of receiving support, especially when you seem so judgemental in presuming to know me.
Way bossy.

I am far from being the hen pecking type. Is this projection on your part perhaps.