Wise and sage advice please

[EasterJoy]

EasterJoy, I know that you already know this, but I’ll mention it anyway and I think we all need to keep it in mind.

We are hearing only the OP’s side of the story. We aren’t hearing from the son or the girlfriend.

I’m NOT saying that the OP is telling untruths.

What I’m saying is that our perceptions are often colored by our own prejudices, life experiences, etc., and so we do not always perceive things accurately.

E.g., a lot of couples trade witticisms with each other and keep up a running volley of quips, pet names (which aren’t always “nice” e.g., “Goofy”), jokes, barbs, fast breaks, snappy answers, puns, etc.
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To others, this “dialogue” sometimes comes across as “belittling each other.” But the couple doesn’t see it that way–they’re just having fun and entertaining each other!.

Think of all the older people you know who constantly “pick at”/tease each other, or who call each other names like, “the better half” or “the little woman,” “the boss,” or whatever. These dear old couples must be “judged” on their long lives together, not on their words, because sometimes the words come across as insulting or belittling. It’s just their way.

“Grasping for material things”–again, this is in the eye of the beholder. It may well be that the young woman in the OP is materialistic and grasping.

But it’s also possible that perhaps she’s just interested in bettering herself and beautifying her surroundings, and she discusses her “wish list” with her boyfriend and anyone else who will listen. My husband and I do that all the time–we talk about all our plans and dreams for our home and our lives (most of which we can’t afford!)–I suppose to those who don’t know us or who don’t like us, we may very well sound materialistic. Again, others need to know us better and they will quickly see that we are far from materialistic and that even though we dream big, we spend small.

Finally “complaining.” Again, this is in the eye of the beholder. One person’s complaint session is another person’s “wish list” or brainstorming session or “think tank.”

Think about how many people here on CAF post about various “complaints” about their parish–these people usually don’t mean to complain! They just want to see things improve in the Family of God, and they are seeking discussion about what actions are appropriate to bring about the improvements.

What she described is nothing I’d want to hear from a guest in my own home–and that it is it: it is in her home. I’ve seen many people take verbal abuse from their boyfriend or girlfriend, and it didn’t become OK because they got married and stayed married. To act like that and then to say, “I don’t feel welcome in your home” is not the most mature behavior in the world. Yes, you can flick each other garbage if you like, that’s your business, but if you can’t quit flicking each other garbage while you’re at the in-laws, because someone’s mom does not like it, you have an issue. As with public displays of affection, you have to be aware that your feelings for each other are not the only feelings that count.

I know a couple who verbally abuses each other, doesn’t think a think of it, been married 60 years: it was, it always has been, and it still is mutual abuse. Their children hated having to listen to it, their siblings hated listening to it, and their neighbors hated listening to it, and they still do, because it was meant in a mean way and in an attacking way, and everybody present knows it. This is a community where good-natured ribbing is the rule. The people know the difference, and this couple isn’t fooling anybody. They’re obnoxious when they do that.

So don’t think that someone who says, “oh, just joking” can be believed, either. I have also heard the “that’s just the way he is” excuse. That is what it is: an excuse for bad behavior. Getting your victim to excuse you doesn’t mean anybody else should have to watch you act like that.

As for the money, I did say that this wasn’t her business. I meant to say that she was bemoaning the behavior and what was being said, not personally insulting the girl directly as a permanently greedy person. She didn’t say that the girl had a grasping nature, but rather said she is immature, which implies she believes the pattern might be fleeting. At 22, this in not a scathing criticism. To say that the girl is not ready for marriage in her current state and may not ever change is also something that can be seen from the outside, and we all know it can be more obvious to everyone else (including younger siblings!) that it is to the star-crossed lovers who think they’re the picture of romance, with only “normal” amounts of conflict.

Don’t get me started on complaining parishioners. I know of a vicar of clergy who gets complaints when his priests wear brown shoes instead of black shoes. As one priest told me once: Parish life? Parish life would be great, if not for the parishioners!! I don’t blame anyone, clergy or layperson, who can do without 99% of the complaints they hear in their parish.

So sure, the OP might be wrong about the girl. She is not, however, wrong about how the girl’s behavior is making her feel. I don’t think it speaks any positive volumes that the young couple would rather stay away than to simply be a bit more civilized while at Mom’s, as if Mom is a terrible person for feeling as she does.

 

[EasterJoy]

Why is your 24 year old son still living at home at all? He is an adult. He can’t have it both ways. Part time with you and part time with the girlfriend? Ridiculous. I hope you do not do his laundry for him or ever give him any money.

It sounds like he has a good job which is very good. Is he college educated? Who even cares about his crazy girlfriend? It’s your home and if you cannot feel comfortable in your home I say don’t ever invite her over again. If she shows up tell her she is not welcome. She doesn’t even deserve an explanation. YOUR name is on the mortgage. Too bad. So sad. If she continues to show up get a restraining order against her. If your son has a problem with it too bad. All you can do is advise him that his girlfriend is using him and shows no respect for him or for others. Tell him that you are very disappointed in his choice for a girlfriend. Let him know she is not welcome in your home. He is an adult. If he decides to move out because of this that is WONDERFUL. Since he will be totally alone with her and not have you and your home to escape to he will realize for himself what torture he is under and hopefully he will end this delusional relationship. This needs to be taken care of right away before she somehow secretly empties his banking and savings accounts. She sounds very manipulative and will somehow figure out a way to do it.

Just my humble opinion. I honestly didn’t mean to come across rude. Just wanted to get my point across. My prayers are with you. I know it’s not an easy time.

When your children make poor choices in friends, even as adults, it can become necessary to comment on your concerns about behavior, but getting draconian will usually backfire. You have to start treating them as you would treat other adults in your social circle, not as if they were still minors.

Wow…a restraining order? They don’t give those out for free, and as nearly as I can tell the girl has never been forbidden from the home. She was invited. She was kind of a lousy guest, she needs to grow up a bit, but “torture” seems a bit strong, too. It wasn’t the kind of verbal over-the-line that required the OP to ask the girl to leave the premises immediately. Maybe she seems like a radio talking head, tiring and full of herself, someone you’re not going to want to have over too often, but the OP doesn’t seem to be describing Howard Stern.

Just incidentally, I have known people to live with their parents until they were 30,* and this even though they owned their own homes*. They just didn’t like rolling around like a marble in a bathtub all the time. They were more than useful around the home place in exchange for their parents’ hospitality, and it worked out well for everybody. There wasn’t a thing wrong with it.

 

[KimberlyCat]

When your children make poor choices in friends, even as adults, it can become necessary to comment on your concerns about behavior, but getting draconian will usually backfire. You have to start treating them as you would treat other adults in your social circle, not as if they were still minors.

Wow…a restraining order? They don’t give those out for free, and as nearly as I can tell the girl has never been forbidden from the home. She was invited. She was kind of a lousy guest, she needs to grow up a bit, but “torture” seems a bit strong, too. It wasn’t the kind of verbal over-the-line that required the OP to ask the girl to leave the premises immediately. Maybe she seems like a radio talking head, tiring and full of herself, someone you’re not going to want to have over too often, but the OP doesn’t seem to be describing Howard Stern.

Just incidentally, I have known people to live with their parents until they were 30,* and this even though they owned their own homes*. They just didn’t like rolling around like a marble in a bathtub all the time. They were more than useful around the home place in exchange for their parents’ hospitality, and it worked out well for everybody. There wasn’t a thing wrong with it.

What if the parents were both deceased?

 

[maryjk]

What if the parents were both deceased?

Why would that even be a question?

Obviously if someone’s parent’s are deceased, then their grown children can’t live with them .

 

[Xantippe]

I was reading the OP’s post again and on second thought, I think that the young woman she is describing is unfortunately a very common contemporary type: high maintenance, self-dramatizing, etc. The bad news is that there are millions of these, and it’s not unlikely that if your son didn’t find this one, he would have found another of more or less the same type. The good news is that 1) she may grow out of it or 2) this may not even be her real personality–she may be doing this out of conformity with all the other young women who act the same way just to fit in.

I blame Facebook.

 

[Evania]

I was reading the OP’s post again and on second thought, I think that the young woman she is describing is unfortunately a very common contemporary type: high maintenance, self-dramatizing, etc. The bad news is that there are millions of these, and it’s not unlikely that if your son didn’t find this one, he would have found another of more or less the same type. The good news is that 1) she may grow out of it or 2) this may not even be her real personality–she may be doing this out of conformity with all the other young women who act the same way just to fit in.

I blame Facebook.

I agree…Facebook, Twitter and social media in general, made with even easier access with smartphones. The pressure to conform has never been so high. I hope she grows out of it. Social media will make that process harder, because it tends to bring out the worst in people. There are good women out there, the trick is getting him to see it.

 

[EasterJoy]

What if the parents were both deceased?

In this particular case, the adult living at home did have his own house. I guess he and the other siblings would have decided what to do with the house; probably a married sibling who could actually use a house that big would have moved into the family home, buying out the other siblings. The single guy probably would have moved into his own place, which he did anyway a few years later.

Sometimes bachelor farmers are just the siblings that stayed in farming at the home place. Why buy something different, if the parent and offspring see each other as adults and would rather work a farm together than with someone hired? Their siblings who married had their own places by the time the parents die. They even up the inheritance in a way they agree on.

Some of the siblings in the same family moved away from home much younger; it really depends on whether the child grows up to be a good “roommate” for the parents. It can happen, though. (When son is out working the farm every day and sees to it that the trees are trimmed and gutters cleaned and so on without Dad getting up on a ladder alone, Mom throwing his laundry in with rest is not some babying thing.)

The point is that the 24 yo might be totally grown up. It could just as easily be a sister saying she doesn’t like her brother’s girlfriend, if the gf exhibited the same sort of behavior at some family thing Sister is hosting, or even a roommate with the same concerns. When you care about somebody, it is hard to watch them take verbal abuse from a “love interest.” It is hard to know how to let on that his hand-picked girlfriend doesn’t agree with you without overstepping your “place”.

Of course you find yourself hoping he finds someone more enjoyable. Maybe it isn’t fair or realistic, of course it isn’t smart to alienate her more than you have to, but everyone hopes that those in their circle bring in those we naturally like instead of those it takes work to tolerate. A lot of times, unfortunately, the fears are well-founded. Not always, but it happens. Painful to watch…

 

[Cat]

I was reading the OP’s post again and on second thought, I think that the young woman she is describing is unfortunately a very common contemporary type: high maintenance, self-dramatizing, etc. The bad news is that there are millions of these, and it’s not unlikely that if your son didn’t find this one, he would have found another of more or less the same type. The good news is that 1) she may grow out of it or 2) this may not even be her real personality–she may be doing this out of conformity with all the other young women who act the same way just to fit in.

I blame Facebook.

This is certainly a probable possibility.

But the way to help her “grow out of it” is to be a good example and a loving friend.

I work with plenty of young women (hospital), and yes, on the surface, they have a lot of those “Facebook” traits. But since we work together for years in close quarters, we are forced to get to know each other, and I have learned over the years that these young women have a lot more depth than is immediately apparent. They have hopes and fears, a family background, hobbies, interests, spirituality (or lack of it)–and they respond well to kindness, which means listening to them.

This certainly seems more constructive than disappearing into a bedroom and hiding.

But it is harder to be a friend than hide.

I would also suggest that the OP spend some time on Facebook and get a feeling for what young women are like nowadays. I realize that this situation is happening in Australia, so perhaps people are different. But I think there are probably a lot of similarities between young women all over the world. She might discover that that personality traits that she finds disturbing are actually the norm for many young people. Sad, but running away from it doesn’t change it. Friendship and self-sacrificing love changes people.

 

[Xantippe]

Cat said:

“But the way to help her “grow out of it” is to be a good example and a loving friend.”

Yes!

“I would also suggest that the OP spend some time on Facebook and get a feeling for what young women are like nowadays. I realize that this situation is happening in Australia, so perhaps people are different. But I think there are probably a lot of similarities between young women all over the world. She might discover that that personality traits that she finds disturbing are actually the norm for many young people. Sad, but running away from it doesn’t change it. Friendship and self-sacrificing love changes people.”

Yes! I also suggest reading the questions young women write in at dearwendy.com. It’s an eye-opener, and somewhat less likely than Facebook to leave you with lingering doubts about people you know.

It may be that the OP’s son’s girlfriend is not that bad, if you have a good look at the competition and the cultural norm in Anglo Saxon countries, which is (roughly speaking), “skanky gold-digger.” She obviously has some positive features, for instance she was smart enough to be able to pick up on the fact that the OP doesn’t like her. A lot of people aren’t nearly that insightful.

Bear in mind that it’s hard to “be yourself” in front of authority figures and that observation affects phenomena (that’s science!). I personally was trying so hard to not look dumb or unambitious or like a gold digger when I met my future in-laws for the first time that I went too far, leading them to think I was negative and too ambitious. (I was afraid that they wouldn’t like me wanting to be an SAHM and live off their son.) You really can’t win.

 

[Fruitoflove]

Our Jesus taught us to speak to the mountains in our life so according to Mark 11:23, Matthew 21:21, Matthew 17:20, Luke 17:6, which says:
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he says shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he says.
Let’s do what God’s word says.

We have instructions from the Lord
We have a mouth to speak the results we want instead of the problem.
We have a mountain, the girlfriends poor attitude
We have a heart that we can fill with Gods word that will transform our present beliefs.
We have a promise from God that this will work, so that removes doubt if we believe that God cannot lie.

So start asking God to change your heart and ask God to put love in your heart for this girl.
Then start praying over your home before she comes over so that God will have His way in your home and that His will would be done. Ask God to make His plans and purposes to come to pass in your sons life and tell satan he’s not going to have his plans for your son come to pass because you trust that God’s plans will come to pass. Keep doing this; not every prayer happens over night,but it will happen.
Blessings

 

[Shae]

Our Jesus taught us to speak to the mountains in our life so according to Mark 11:23, Matthew 21:21, Matthew 17:20, Luke 17:6, which says:
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he says shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he says.
Let’s do what God’s word says.

We have instructions from the Lord
We have a mouth to speak the results we want instead of the problem.
We have a mountain, the girlfriends poor attitude
We have a heart that we can fill with Gods word that will transform our present beliefs.
We have a promise from God that this will work, so that removes doubt if we believe that God cannot lie.

So start asking God to change your heart and ask God to put love in your heart for this girl.
Then start praying over your home before she comes over so that God will have His way in your home and that His will would be done. Ask God to make His plans and purposes to come to pass in your sons life and tell satan he’s not going to have his plans for your son come to pass because you trust that God’s plans will come to pass. Keep doing this; not every prayer happens over night,but it will happen.
Blessings

Thankyou, you speak with compassion, and I do respond well in this way.

God Bless you

Some people will hear you better when you speak with a voice of compassion instead of authority.
They long to be understood more than to be lectured.

This is not my quote, but I like it. So true.