Wishing Buddhism was true

[anon99031074]

I think in view of the Buddhist and Catholic concepts of “merit”, you would be better off just saying “gaining merit” and not using the word indulgences.

Ok. Thanks for the correction.

 

[John_Martin]

Nothing new under the sun, as the author of Ecclesiastes said.

Then the man called the Buddha did not attain something called nirvana since that would have been something totally new under the sun (if that were the correct meaning of Qoholeth’s words).

Yes, a disciple will at most be like his master; our master is the Son of God, the only God in the flesh, and risen to also give us life. He, our teacher, is busy and active making us to be like himself.

 

[anon99031074]

Then the man called the Buddha did not attain something called nirvana since that would have been something totally new under the sun (if that were the correct meaning of Qoholeth’s words).

No, it wouldn’t be something new. He was not the first Buddha, nor will he be the last, and as long as there are mental defilements such as anger, greed and delusion, the possibility of extinguishing them also exists.

 

[John_Martin]

as long as there are mental defilements such as anger, greed and delusion, the possibility of extinguishing them also exists.

If this has always been going on, and if it is possible that mental defilements can be eliminated by attaining enlightenment, since we are talking about an infinite past in Buddhism then this should have been accomplished by now, since there was an infinite amount of time to attain all the possibilities. It either should have ended or the goal is not achievable or it is a questionable philosophy.

 

[Genesis315]

Buddhism is pretty much the direct opposite of Christianity. Even if certain means seem similar, they are oriented to diametrically opposed ends. St. John Paul II in the chapter on Buddhism in Crossing the Threshold of Hope gives a good, to the point summary on why this is (and why comparing it with Christian meditation or mysticism is off base).

Most of the chapter is here free (starting on page 84):

Crossing the Threshold of Hope - Pope John Paul II - Google Books

 

[meltzerboy2]

Freud’s nirvana principle is death; however, I don’t think the Buddhist nirvana is death. That is, death is not the ultimate destiny according to Buddhism, but rather a kind of spiritual (eternal) life which is more perfect than the present one. But I am no expert on this.

 

[anon99031074]

If this has always been going on, and if it is possible that mental defilements can be eliminated by attaining enlightenment, since we are talking about an infinite past in Buddhism then this should have been accomplished by now, since there was an infinite amount of time to attain all the possibilities. It either should have ended or the goal is not achievable or it is a questionable pbehilosophy.

While I think it could be fun to debate whether an infinite past is possible, I note that the Buddha did not answer whether or not the universe is eternal, because whether the answer is this, that or the other, we still suffer and die, and even if one could find an answer, it would do nothing to solve the problem of suffering. There are Buddhists who go beyond this and speak as if the universe is actually eternal, and even suggest that their individual mental continuum has always existed, and if they wish to defend the notion they are welcome to try, but they are going beyond what the Buddha taught.

The Buddha never promised to give anyone a complete philosophy of the universe, or even human life. There are religions and philosophies which attempt to do that, but the Dharma of the Buddha does not. The purpose of the Buddha-Dharma is to understand suffering.

EDIT: From MN 63:

"So, Māluṅkyaputta, you should remember what I have not declared as undeclared, and what I have declared as declared. And what have I not declared? I have not declared the following: ‘the world is eternal,’ ‘the world is not eternal,’ ‘the world is finite,’ ‘the world is infinite,’ ‘the soul and the body are the same thing,’ ‘the soul and the body are different things,’ ‘a Realized One exists after death,’ ‘a Realized One doesn’t exist after death,’ ‘a Realized One both exists and doesn’t exist after death,’ ‘a Realized One neither exists nor doesn’t exist after death.’ And why haven’t I declared these things? Because they aren’t beneficial or relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They don’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That’s why I haven’t declared them. And what have I declared? I have declared the following: ‘this is suffering,’ ‘this is the origin of suffering,’ ‘this is the cessation of suffering,’ ‘this is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering.’ And why have I declared these things? Because they are beneficial and relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That’s why I have declared them. So, Māluṅkyaputta, you should remember what I have not declared as undeclared, and what I have declared as declared.”

 

[anon99031074]

While there are real differences between Buddhism and Christianity, he is making it very easy for himself when he takes it upon himself to define what Buddhism is about and what Nirvana means. To me the whole text is a collection of caricatures as it pertains to Buddhism. I am sure he was an excellent theologian and a wonderful pope, and hence an expert on Catholic theology, but he was no expert on Buddhism, just like the Dalai Lama or any Buddhist monk or nun are not experts on Catholicism. Ecumenical dialogue is much more useful than religious leaders of one faith tradition taking it upon themselves to explain what the others believe, and Buddhists sin against this every bit as much as Christians do, so I am not pointing fingers here.

 

[jack63]

Just curious…certainly not judging…what is it about Buddhism that actually attracts you…what specific ideals? Is it the concept of reincarnation that attracts you?

 

[Startingcatholic]

I am attracted to the idea of how they view suffering and how they overcome it because it makes sense in my head how they view it. I guess it also stems from me feeling almost as if Jesus made it too easy for me to be saved; I feel like there’s more almost that I’m missing and this feels like it’s kinda filling that spot where there are things missing.

 

[jack63]

I am attracted to the idea of how they view suffering and how they overcome it because it makes sense in my head how they view it.

I’m interested. How is that they view suffering that is different from Christianity?

Jesus made it too easy for me to be saved; I feel like there’s more almost that I’m missing and this feels like it’s kinda filling that spot where there are things missing.

What spot are they filling?

On the “Jesus made it too easy for me to be saved;”…wow! that one would start a long thread!

 

[Startingcatholic]

I see it as filling that spot of me feeling like I need I should do more and feeling like there’s more I need to understand and know. When it comes to the idea of suffering I guess I see the difference in that how I understand it is Buddhism believes it is overcome through cutting of things that can cause pain. While in christianity it isn’t trying to end suffering but more so offering the suffering to our lord.

 

[jack63]

When it comes to the idea of suffering I guess I see the difference in that how I understand it is Buddhism believes it is overcome through cutting of things that can cause pain. While in christianity it isn’t trying to end suffering but more so offering the suffering to our lord.

Ok…I understand. Let me think about it.

Yes…that is basically my understanding of Christianity…offering your suffering to the Lord or perhaps empathizing with the suffering of Jesus is what Christians do.

 

[jack63]

First, yes Christianity and Catholicism really go out of their way to emphasize that it is not about cutting off things that can cause pain, it is about empathizing with Jesus and his suffering. For example, the sacraments are physical. That is the body and blood of Jesus. Catholics, like me, believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. This means that sacrament is meant reach you on a physical level. Who you are is both physical and spiritual. Not just a spirit or conscious like Buddhism. Inherent in being a physical being is that you will suffer. There is no way around it.

That is the key for me. There is no way around suffering. To think otherwise just won’t work. That suffering that you go through (or will end up going through) is fundamentally part of who you are. For example, a mother or father loves their children. In a way this relationship can be thought of as a reflection that we are all children of God. Perhaps there is both a spiritual and biological part of this for a parent. That love of their children can define part of who they are, but it can also cause them much suffering. You can’t just strip that part (i.e. the love of their children and the suffering it may bring) away from who they are.

So perhaps think of those you know who have suffered…perhaps a parent or other loved one who has died. What was the significance of their suffering?

Hope this helps!..that is the best way I’d know how to look at it…

 

[Techno2000]

I start RCIA after Easter and I’ve always been interested in Buddhism but known it wasn’t true because I have looked into Catholicism and loved it as well after all that’s why I’m joining the church. But I guess the ideals of Buddhism I wish were true it just feels so right almost. And I just don’t know what to do because I’m very conflicted.

The Devil will tell you a thousand truths…just to slip in one lie.

 

[halogirl]

@Startingcatholic you will have eternal life a rship with God and forgiveness for all your sins, as a Christian. Take some ideas from buddihism but it doesn’t contain the fullness of truth

 

[Aspidistraflyer]

Your desire for Buddhism to be true, despite your sense of its untruth, is a desire for something you believe is illusory - and this desire is causing you suffering.

You can actually accomplish one of the goals of Buddhism by abandoning this desire, and freeing yourself from suffering in a loving relationship with your Father, who loves you, and desires communion with you, more intensely than you could desire anything.

 

[huck]

Are there ideals of Buddhism that you find incompatible with Christianity? Just asking, I don’t know much about Buddhism.

Reincarnation as well as the belief in no god. Some buddhists also believe that Jesus was a Buddha but that would deny his divinity. There’s a lot more but that’s just the stuff off the top of my head.

With regards to reincarnation being incompatible, during the time frame of 40 years God never told Moses what the afterlife was like. Jesus only talked in parables about the afterlife, and when he did mention reincarnation (which was a common belief at the time) the only thing he said was that John the Baptist was a reincarnation of Elijah. The only negative biblical evidence is from whoever wrote the book of Hebrews stating that we only live once, but he wasn’t talking about the afterlife at the time.

 

[Neithan]

The end of dharma is to cease to exist - to escape the cycle of suffering, birth and death. Enlightenment is release from the burden of life and the balance of karma. It’s the great despair. A spiritual acceptance of the utter futility of all things.

Hamlet asked, To Be or Not to Be? Judaism, Christianity and Islam answer this: To Be! Eternal life and glory forever. Jainism, Hinduism and Buddhism answer this: Not to be, extinguishing the self and absorption into the aether.

If you want Buddhism to be true, just become an atheist. Problem solved.

 

[Startingcatholic]

Well I just have to disagree with saying that reincarnation is compatible at all; the catechism literally says there is no reincarnation after death. CCC 1013 Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed,586 we shall not return to other earthly lives: "It is appointed for men to die once."587 There is no “reincarnation” after death.