Wishing to be Protestant again...

[dottyefarrell]

Hi, I chose that title to be somewhat provocative to hopefully garner people who could reply to this thread. I converted from Protestantism more than 10 years ago and I am happy to be Catholic. However, having said that I do miss much of the social aspects of a Protestant church. There were programs and bible studies for every age group; there were many ways of connecting to different people in your church–I had lots of friends in church and we would call each other up and do things together. There would be family picnics and other outings the church would sponsor.

In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.

I have brought some of my brothers and sisters in to the Church, but we all are beginning to pine for the days when going to church was enjoyable.

It does really appear to me that the Catholic Church, as an institution, does not foster fellowship anywhere near as much as the Protestant churches do. Am I wrong?

And before you say to me, “Well then, you get something started at your church!”, I’m trying to make the point that as an institution the Catholic church does not foster fellowship. I don’t want to be one person trying to roll a rock up hill, I want to be part of a Church that encourages fellowship.

As I mentioned before, I helped bring others to the Catholic Church, but now I’ve got a dilemma. My two kids, ages 12 and 13 are really complaining about going to our ‘boring church’ when their Protestant friends do all these really fun activities their churches sponsor. And I have an older son who may be considering becoming Catholic, but he has 4 children ages 1-6. I wince at the prospect of telling him he can’t put his children in Sunday School while he and his wife go to mass, but instead he has to keep four children under control for an hour while having to listen to a boring sermon. These are not show stoppers, but they really detract from giving incentives to joining the Church.

Any thought are welcome. But does anyone else see this lack of fellowship problem?

Hi,
I have a couple of thoughts and one or two suggestions.

I have been Catholic all my life and I have known many non-Catholics too. Your “complaint” is one that I have heard before-Catholics are not as social as their non-Catholic brothers and sisters. I have been a member of 5 different Parishes in my 55 years. The most social Parishes that I have seen are mostly cultural in nature; i.e. Polish, German, Hispanic, where a majority of the Parishoners are of that culture. Lots of cultural gatherings outside of the Liturgy and a strong cultural slant to the Liturgy in song, dress and practice. This may not be something that is available in your area but if it is, you might try those Parishes.

Another thing that I have noticed is that Parishes with a school are WAY more social than those without. There are fundraising bazzars, festivals, Scout troops, retreats, religious ed and Bible study, nursery during Mass, coffee and doughnuts in the school gym, K-8 sports, Science fairs, and school activities that can help young parents “find and bind” over their kids and their activities. Some of my dearest friends were met while my son was in K-12, and they were originally met through the school activities of my son.

Finally, where many non-Catholic churches have moving speakers and soul stirring music, the Catholic church has Jesus in Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity every day on the altar. A more personal relationship with him can not be had ANYWHERE ELSE. If you, or any of your relatives, heard on the radio or tv that Jesus Christ is appearing this Sunday at XYZ Parish, is there anything on earth that would stop you or them from being there? No song or sermon can compare to Jesus in the flesh.

Teens and tweens are going to test the will of their parents. All you can do is love and guide them and hope that the seeds of faith have been well established. Pray together often, and remind them what is at stake.

 

[Church_Militant]

Who is this book by, and where can I ge it? Do you know if it can be read online anywhere.

Hi, Protestant 101,

**Rinnie and you wrote: *Rinnie: **** May I recommend “Jesus of Nazareth”, not just to Catholic’s but to everyone. Th[is is th]e best book I ever read in my life. It’s awesome.

Protestant 101:* Who is this book by, and where can I ge it? Do you know if it can be read online anywhere.​

I have not acquired and/or read this book, either, but Rinnie originally mentioned it when I had mentioned Pope Benedict XVI’s books, so I assume that the current Pope is the author of this and of many other fine books.

Pax, Jerry Parker

amazon.com/Jesus-Nazareth-Pope-Benedict-XVI/dp/B00394DGZK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277559139&sr=1-1

Well worth it.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Marty and Dottie,

**You shared: ** In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.​

I think that the epithet, “eucharist factories” is rather insulting, but I know what you mean by that. In the days of the rich, Scripture-drenched Latin Mass (according to the Missale Romanum editions of 1962 and 1965), the Mass was able more readily to “stand on its own”. The Novus Ordo of 1970, by contrast, is brief, very mundane, and just gets the Mass over too quickly to register the kind of impact of the traditional liturgies.

When you add that to the ill-prepared and vacuous sermons which seem at times to drag, but in so little time, 5 to 10 minutes (which thus become “boring” not because of length but because they are so feeble), the public worship rather dries up spiritually, even if the essence of the Mass, with our Lord’s Real Presence is there. All of that, with too little socialising make for a dry and formalistic Mass and parish.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[Jesness]

Hi, I chose that title to be somewhat provocative to hopefully garner people who could reply to this thread. I converted from Protestantism more than 10 years ago and I am happy to be Catholic. However, having said that I do miss much of the social aspects of a Protestant church. There were programs and bible studies for every age group; there were many ways of connecting to different people in your church–I had lots of friends in church and we would call each other up and do things together. There would be family picnics and other outings the church would sponsor.

In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.

I have brought some of my brothers and sisters in to the Church, but we all are beginning to pine for the days when going to church was enjoyable.

It does really appear to me that the Catholic Church, as an institution, does not foster fellowship anywhere near as much as the Protestant churches do. Am I wrong?

And before you say to me, “Well then, you get something started at your church!”, I’m trying to make the point that as an institution the Catholic church does not foster fellowship. I don’t want to be one person trying to roll a rock up hill, I want to be part of a Church that encourages fellowship.

As I mentioned before, I helped bring others to the Catholic Church, but now I’ve got a dilemma. My two kids, ages 12 and 13 are really complaining about going to our ‘boring church’ when their Protestant friends do all these really fun activities their churches sponsor. And I have an older son who may be considering becoming Catholic, but he has 4 children ages 1-6. I wince at the prospect of telling him he can’t put his children in Sunday School while he and his wife go to mass, but instead he has to keep four children under control for an hour while having to listen to a boring sermon. These are not show stoppers, but they really detract from giving incentives to joining the Church.

Any thought are welcome. But does anyone else see this lack of fellowship problem?

Yes. That is my biggest grip with the Catholic Church. As it is, I became a protestant out of necessity vs desire. When I came to the Catholic church wanting to be baptized, I found out that they wouldn’t even be having RCIA classes until 4-5 months later. Now, the baptist church where I ended up didn’t baptize me haphazardly either, I still ended up waitng almost a year before being baptized, but in that time I was also drowned in Scripture and fellowship- fellowship being the largest factor to me continuing in the faith. I was constantly encouraged, and rebuked, but always with a loving Christian attitude. I felt at ease there from day one, and felt very put off by the Catholic Church. Like you, I do however feel that the Catholic Church is very strong when it comes to knowledge, if for no other reason than because it is passed down from generation to generation, in a protestant denomiation, even if someone stumbles upon a profound spritual truth, it tends to stay in the church it was revealed… sadly I think a LOT of knowledge is lost this way… But I digress. Yes. Fellowshipping problem. Some Catholic churches are getting with the program however. The one by my house has started a bible study. So obviously they have noticed it too, and that goes a long way to eliminating a problem.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Jessnes,

**You wrote: ** *That is my biggest grip[e] with the Catholic Church. As it is, I became a Protestant out of necessity vs. desire. When I came to the Catholic church wanting to be baptized, I found out that they wouldn’t even be having RCIA classes until 4-5 months later. Now, the Baptist church where I ended up didn’t baptize me haphazardly either, I still ended up waitng almost a year before being baptized, but in that time I was also drowned in Scripture and fellowship – fellowship being the largest factor to me continuing in the faith. I was constantly encouraged, and rebuked, but always with a loving Christian attitude. I felt at ease there from day one, and felt very put off by the Catholic Church. Like you, I do however feel that the Catholic Church is very strong when it comes to knowledge, if for no other reason than because it is passed down from generation to generation; in a Protestant denomiation, even if someone stumbles upon a profound spritual truth, it tends to stay in the church it was revealed – sadly I think a LOT of knowledge is lost this way—. But I digress. Yes. Fellowshipping problem. Some Catholic churches are getting with the program however. The one by my house has started a bible study. So obviously they have noticed it too, and that goes a long way to eliminating a problem. *​

Well, you were luckier with the Baptists than my mother and her brother (my uncle) were as children. My maternal grandfather was L.D.S. Mormon. His third wife was a rampaging Baptist. Grandpa wanted to let the children do as they felt best, which in their eyes was not to become Baptist but stay Mormon. So, Grandmother No. 3 (out of, eventually, 22 women altogether whom my Mormon grandpa married) tortured the two children to become Baptists (slivers up the fingernails, suspended them from the rafters of the kitchen, other painful and cruel things too dastardly to perpetrate on kids). Of course, after enough of such treament, my mother and uncle relented, under force and to stop the torture, and became Baptists. However, I know that Baptists do not usually carry out conversions by torture. She was coo-coo!

You made an important observation about the spiritual inertia among Protestants and the sects. There can be progress, even towards things very Catholic, but this remains at the local level. For Baptists, the Holy Spirit has to convince each and/or their congregations separately; there is no assurance that progress made will reach the next generattion, not to mention other Christians. The dialogues with Protestants and sectaries about Our Lady, Mary Ever-Virgin, principles of ordination, Papal primacy, etc., can make some headway somehow, somewhere on a limited basis, but then it all fizzles out, time after time, then is renewed and then falls flat another time, etc. Really, the dialogues are rather useless with sectaries, so far as affecting any large-scale change between, for instance, Baptists vis-à-vis Catholics. I have books co-written by sectaries, Protestants, on the one hand, and Catholics, on the other, in published dialogues reclaiming a larger place for Our Lady, Mary, Mother of God, but, of course, most of the Protestants’ and sectaries’ co-religionists never know of any of this, or, knowing of it, ignore or denounce it. With Lutherans and the Reformed, there is more hope, since their international connexions really do range more widely, but that entails matters of degree, not of kind, and never reall is definitive among them.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[Protestant101]

Distracted,

Good point! The Lutherans may have an hard time maintaining the Real Presence precisely because they cannot experience at their own altars – can assert it but cannot feed on Jesus in His Sacrament because of their defective ordinations. However, they really do try hard!

Pax, Jerry Parker

“The Real Presence” can be experienced by Christians without “The Eucharist” or “Communion.”

 

[Miguel_Sastre]

In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.

I have a similar story, only I was Catholic for much longer before I “reverted” to my Evangelical roots. It was the lack of fellowship thing coupled with inexcusably bad preaching in every parish within driving distance that finally drove me to take “a second look” at Evangelical Christianity and a much, much deeper look at Catholic doctrine. I found that the “dead” parish syndrome may well have an organic relationship to what I would call “false doctrines” in Roman Catholicism. So the disconnect you’re experiencing, I experienced as well, and eventually I came to the conclusion that the disconnect made perfect sense, especially if a tree is known by its fruits.

And before you say to me, “Well then, you get something started at your church!”, I’m trying to make the point that as an institution the Catholic church does not foster fellowship. I don’t want to be one person trying to roll a rock up hill, I want to be part of a Church that encourages fellowship.

Why do you kick against the goad, Saul? Go where there is life and where the gospel isn’t just read out loud, but actually preached and lived out by the “critical mass” of those who come to worship. I tire of the criticism by Catholics that Evangelicalism reduces to “me and Jesus Christianity.” No where was that MORE true for me than in Roman Catholic churches where I was truly ALONE in my Christianity. Like you said, a Eucharist factory with a bunch of spiritual myrmidons crossing their Sunday obligation off their “to do” list.

As I mentioned before, I helped bring others to the Catholic Church, but now I’ve got a dilemma. My two kids, ages 12 and 13 are really complaining about going to our ‘boring church’ when their Protestant friends do all these really fun activities their churches sponsor.

This kind of dilemma can only be cast out by prayer and fasting, I’m afraid. My advice as a father of three boys. Let them explore. What’s the worse that could happen? (Lord forbid they actually become believers with a passion for Christ and His gospel.)

And I have an older son who may be considering becoming Catholic, but he has 4 children ages 1-6. I wince at the prospect of telling him he can’t put his children in Sunday School while he and his wife go to mass, but instead he has to keep four children under control for an hour while having to listen to a boring sermon. These are not show stoppers, but they really detract from giving incentives to joining the Church.

I agree these aren’t the deal-breakers to worry about. Instead, I’d focus on two things. First, is the Church alive? Do you get a sense that the people who go there are IN LOVE with Jesus Christ. If the answer is no, move on. After you determine the church has a HEART, then find out if it has a BRAIN.

Your problem seems to be finding a PULSE. I quite agree with you. It’s very difficult to try to persuade someone to be Catholic when the prospects for finding a parish with a pulse can be quite daunting.

But of course, there’s also the doctrine thing. Are you really convinced that Rome has got it right? Do you really think Paul, for example, could have ever dreamt that Mary was conceived without sin and lived a sinless life and that she is a powerful intercessor on our behalf? Really?

Be assured of my prayers.

Miguel Sastre

 

[Lutheranteach]

Marty and Dottie,

**You shared: ** In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.​

I think that the epithet, “eucharist factories” is rather insulting, but I know what you mean by that. In the days of the rich, Scripture-drenched Latin Mass (according to the Missale Romanum editions of 1962 and 1965), the Mass was able more readily to “stand on its own”. The Novus Ordo of 1970, by contrast, is brief, very mundane, and just gets the Mass over too quickly to register the kind of impact of the traditional liturgies.

When you add that to the ill-prepared and vacuous sermons which seem at times to drag, but in so little time, 5 to 10 minutes (which thus become “boring” not because of length but because they are so feeble), the public worship rather dries up spiritually, even if the essence of the Mass, with our Lord’s Real Presence is there. All of that, with too little socialising make for a dry and formalistic Mass and parish.

Pax, Jerry Parker

Insulting yes, and I wouldn’t have put it that way, but I can see his point. There is an aspect to it, in some churches, that seems more like kids lining up at lunchtime to go the cafeteria than any kind of religious service.

 

[Protestant101]

The comments here re “lack of fellowship” do show that people leaving the Church, (whichever church you go to) can be from either Catholic or Protestant faith backgrounds. It seems to be a cross-denominational thing.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Priotestant 101,

**You wrote: ** * The “Real Presence” can be experienced by Christians without “The Eucharist” or “Communion”*.​

This is just so much sectarian persiflage and evasion of the issue. The “Real Presence” in the Eucharist is a Presence that is promised, assured, and objectively effected in the Mass (or Holy Communion, as Protestants prefer to call it). What you are referring to is something else (spiritual illumination, sense of God’s presence in their lives and souls, strengthening, etc.), which, of course, Catholics, especially Catholic mystical writers, do not deny.

It is just that the sects and most Protestants, in their anti-sacramental bias, loathe the idea that God works through the Mass, through the elements, and through the actions of the priest. Receiving the Holy Communion in the Catholic or Orthodox Eucharist does not depend on our spiritual state, but on the realised trustworthy and objective promise of our Lord, Jesus Christ, who, with the Holy Spirit, accomplishes that which He has promised. Troubled souls know, despite their preoccupations, doubts, unworthiness, and troubles, that Christ keeps His promise and does what the Mass represents. To try to find another route, and that exclusively, for that which Christ instituted, is presumption and rebelliousness.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[MariaG]

Hi, I chose that title to be somewhat provocative to hopefully garner people who could reply to this thread. I converted from Protestantism more than 10 years ago and I am happy to be Catholic. However, having said that I do miss much of the social aspects of a Protestant church. There were programs and bible studies for every age group; there were many ways of connecting to different people in your church–I had lots of friends in church and we would call each other up and do things together. There would be family picnics and other outings the church would sponsor.

In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.

I have brought some of my brothers and sisters in to the Church, but we all are beginning to pine for the days when going to church was enjoyable.

It does really appear to me that the Catholic Church, as an institution, does not foster fellowship anywhere near as much as the Protestant churches do. Am I wrong?

And before you say to me, “Well then, you get something started at your church!”, I’m trying to make the point that as an institution the Catholic church does not foster fellowship. I don’t want to be one person trying to roll a rock up hill, I want to be part of a Church that encourages fellowship.

As I mentioned before, I helped bring others to the Catholic Church, but now I’ve got a dilemma. My two kids, ages 12 and 13 are really complaining about going to our ‘boring church’ when their Protestant friends do all these really fun activities their churches sponsor. And I have an older son who may be considering becoming Catholic, but he has 4 children ages 1-6. I wince at the prospect of telling him he can’t put his children in Sunday School while he and his wife go to mass, but instead he has to keep four children under control for an hour while having to listen to a boring sermon. These are not show stoppers, but they really detract from giving incentives to joining the Church.

Any thought are welcome. But does anyone else see this lack of fellowship problem?

I do understand what you are saying. There does seem to be, in most Catholic churches, less programs for fellowship.

I know in our church, someone asked why we don’t have a children’s liturgy. As someone who is the 5-6 grade religious ed teacher as well as the youth group, (both volunteer positions), along with my 30 -40 hour work week, and my own 3 children and husband, he was flat out told him that we don’t have one because no one who currently is working with kids and has time or energy for it.

He was encouraged to talk to father and start one if he felt the need for one and was willing to head it up. He didn’t and so we don’t have one.

I have found that whether it was in a large church or a small one, Catholic or Protestant, there are a small number of people who are reponsible for all the different programs. I also found that the “burn out” rate was higher in the protestant churches I was in whereas in the Catholic church people seem to do it for longer, in my limited personal experience. I know in the religious ed classes for kids, parents whose kids are no longer there, still choose to stay and teach or substitute or in some way still be involved because they enjoy what they are doing.

Conversely, most currently involved with the kids now think church is for families to be together and have no desire to help with a children’s liturgy program, but in no way would stop such a program, just won’t help with it.

Or maybe we are just more selfish with our time:shrug:

Either way, I understand what you are saying but unfortunately, you already know and have heard the answer. Maybe not the “why” of it but the solution to it.

God bless,
Maria

 

[Lost_Again]

i have no problem with socializing and such, but not in the church, i dont want to talk to the people around me when a few feet away is the Body of Christ in the tabernacle. i want to talk to God, i want to hear what God is trying to say to me through meditation. i cant do that when there are over 9000 people around me talking about last nights baseball game or how good the pot roast was or relation ship issues. I would say it is good to talk aand hang out and shoot the breeze with your fellow Church-goer, but dont do it in the church building. Why can it not be good enough for people to talk in the parish hall or (if your parish has a school attached) the school gym. dont talk about random stuff in front of the very God we worship (in the form of the Body of Christ). go somewhere else and talk and socialize.

Please show me at what point in my statement did say "socializing IN church? I’m talking about hanging out before or after mass or going to the social center. Its non-existent in my church. Everyone files in, sits down, ignores everyone around them or at best they might give a little wave to each other. We all go through mass. and ZIP! everyone is running for their cars like it was some kind of race.

All I’m trying to say is I miss shaking hands, hugging friends I haven’t seen in awhile, seeing who needs prayer or special needs. That’s what I mean about fellowship and socializing. I did way more to help people in the church when I was a Protestant that I have ever been able to as a Catholic. Maybe some of you are right and its just my parish but after reading some of the responses I don’t think so. If you read the original questions, that’s what was being asked. I honestly think I was a BETTER Christian when I was away from the church because I was with people who wanted to be in church to worship God and live a Christan lifestyle. Not some sort of assembly line prayer system which is what I was referencing when I said I could remember all the responses after a 12 year absence. Why? because nothing had changed!

Please understand that I am trying hard to fit back into my church and I meet often with the RCIA director. he agrees on many points because ours is an old parish and many people are set in their ways. But please lets get this straight… I am in church to worship. Thats what I meant about missing the solemnity.

 

[rinnie]

Who is this book by, and where can I ge it? Do you know if it can be read online anywhere.

Sure I got it and tons of my books on Amazon.com. You can buy them used, and they are like half the price and like brand new. Good luck, and I PROMISE you, you will LOVE that book.

Pope JPll was great with dealing with people in person, but I have a harder time reading his work.

But Pope Bendict XVI has a way of taking the word of God and making it so simple and easy. He will explain the Baptism of Jesus in a way that you will NEVER forget. He is a WONDERFUL teacher in his books.

 

[rinnie]

Please show me at what point in my statement did say "socializing IN church? I’m talking about hanging out before or after mass or going to the social center. Its non-existent in my church. Everyone files in, sits down, ignores everyone around them or at best they might give a little wave to each other. We all go through mass. and ZIP! everyone is running for their cars like it was some kind of race.

All I’m trying to say is I miss shaking hands, hugging friends I haven’t seen in awhile, seeing who needs prayer or special needs. That’s what I mean about fellowship and socializing. I did way more to help people in the church when I was a Protestant that I have ever been able to as a Catholic. Maybe some of you are right and its just my parish but after reading some of the responses I don’t think so. If you read the original questions, that’s what was being asked. I honestly think I was a BETTER Christian when I was away from the church because I was with people who wanted to be in church to worship God and live a Christan lifestyle. Not some sort of assembly line prayer system which is what I was referencing when I said I could remember all the responses after a 12 year absence. Why? because nothing had changed!

Please understand that I am trying hard to fit back into my church and I meet often with the RCIA director. he agrees on many points because ours is an old parish and many people are set in their ways. But please lets get this straight… I am in church to worship. Thats what I meant about missing the solemnity.

Yes I know. That is why Pope John Paul ll started One Body One Mission. It is called the Church Alive. You will see many Changes happening if you haven’t already. Be carefull you may be the one asked by the Holy Spirit to participate in making this change happen

PJII started this ten years ago and it is just beginning to take off. So sit back, and get ready big changes are happening in the CHurch.

But please remember this has NOTHING to do with the teachings of the Church. It is only dealing with reaching out to the needs of others in the Church. The Priest is still the CHIEF and we are still the Indians.

Remember we can’t have too many Chief’s and not enough Indians

 

[Lost_Again]

You are not weird for feeling the way you do. Prepare in this thread to get a million guilt trips about how you’re making it all about YOU and not God and the typical low expectations that “it is what it is” type arguments. You’ll also get replies that say things like, “if you want more fellowship, why don’t YOU make it happen!?” when in reality one needs to ask, why after 100 years of being a parish in my town has nobody else thought of childcare, fellowship, Bible study, greeters, or overall friendliness? Are you really the first person to want fellowship at that parish? It’s institutionalized the whole lack of fellowship and it shouldn’t be up to just you to organize.

Gurney My brother!

Bless you as you were able to say what I have not been able find the words to say in some of my responses to this post! Why is it when someone tries to bring about change in the church, or present ideas that are just plain common sense, we get “guilt tripped” by old school, hard line Catholics. I was discussing some of the points in these posts with some family members this weekend (All Catholic) I was truly amazed at some of the responses from my relatives.
The old timers in my age group (55+) did the same old guilt tripping that I suffered through as a child and young adult. Or they looked at some of the things we did in my old church as “Too Protestant”! to work in the Catholic Church.
The nieces and nephews (all in their mid to late 30’s now) said “You had greeters and child care at your old (Baptist) church”? What a great idea! One of them said “I love my kids but just once I’d like to be able to focus on worship without trying to make sure my kids are being quiet”. To which the hard liners replied “we had to control you kids in church, why should it be any different for your kids”?
Others in the group thought it was a great idea to have “small groups” as we did in my old church. In so many words they were all looking for ways to share their beliefs with other believers (Catholics) in a venue other than the mass! Why is it so foreign for Catholics to understand that sometimes you need to talk to other people your own age and belief structure in a comfortable, loving environement? I work in a very Anti-Catholic/Anti-Christian environment. I miss being able to meet with a bunch of people once a week to read the bible or just gather over a cup of coffee and discuss how we’re coping with all the religious bigotry at work. As someone else posted here, its like you’re an island all to yourself.

What is so wrong with “fellowship”?? Maybe its just a “Catholic” thing? I must admit when I moved to the Protestant side I thought all this touch-feely, huggy, can I pray for you, stuff was kinda weird. Over time I came to appreciate the “openness” of the protestant church. You can see plenty of Protestants who stand up unashamedly in public for their faith. I’m hard pressed to remember anyone Catholic doing anything similar in recent memory. Its even more important nowadays with all the priest scandals that we hold our heads up high as Catholics. I just feel that having more fellowship in the RCC would encourage that. At least you would know that you are not alone!

I can hear the hate mail and guilt trips coming now…

 

[rinnie]

“The Real Presence” can be experienced by Christians without “The Eucharist” or “Communion.”

But how do you change the bread and wine into the living God?

 

[rinnie]

Gurney My brother!

Bless you as you were able to say what I have not been able find the words to say in some of my responses to this post! Why is it when someone tries to bring about change in the church, or present ideas that are just plain common sense, we get “guilt tripped” by old school, hard line Catholics. I was discussing some of the points in these posts with some family members this weekend (All Catholic) I was truly amazed at some of the responses from my relatives.
The old timers in my age group (55+) did the same old guilt tripping that I suffered through as a child and young adult. Or they looked at some of the things we did in my old church as “Too Protestant”! to work in the Catholic Church.
The nieces and nephews (all in their mid to late 30’s now) said “You had greeters and child care at your old (Baptist) church”? What a great idea! One of them said “I love my kids but just once I’d like to be able to focus on worship without trying to make sure my kids are being quiet”. To which the hard liners replied “we had to control you kids in church, why should it be any different for your kids”?
Others in the group thought it was a great idea to have “small groups” as we did in my old church. In so many words they were all looking for ways to share their beliefs with other believers (Catholics) in a venue other than the mass! Why is it so foreign for Catholics to understand that sometimes you need to talk to other people your own age and belief structure in a comfortable, loving environement? I work in a very Anti-Catholic/Anti-Christian environment. I miss being able to meet with a bunch of people once a week to read the bible or just gather over a cup of coffee and discuss how we’re coping with all the religious bigotry at work. As someone else posted here, its like you’re an island all to yourself.

What is so wrong with “fellowship”?? Maybe its just a “Catholic” thing? I must admit when I moved to the Protestant side I thought all this touch-feely, huggy, can I pray for you, stuff was kinda weird. Over time I came to appreciate the “openness” of the protestant church. You can see plenty of Protestants who stand up unashamedly in public for their faith. I’m hard pressed to remember anyone Catholic doing anything similar in recent memory. Its even more important nowadays with all the priest scandals that we hold our heads up high as Catholics. I just feel that having more fellowship in the RCC would encourage that. At least you would know that you are not alone!

I can hear the hate mail and guilt trips coming now…

Change L_A. People hate change. Some will except it, some will embrace it, and with some you with encounter outright hostility:shrug:

 

[laneo]

Well, all i can say is that when I attend mass at my church h its the most boring thing ever. Nobody sings, everyone is just standing their live zombies. There are two Catholic churches and they are very dry and boring. I will admit, when I went to my fiancées church (she’s Assembly of God) people actually sang and rejoiced, as opposed to standing their looking disinterested and ready to go home.

 

[Nita]

So much depends on one’s mindset (what one seeks and expects) and one’s understanding of prayer/worship.

I am a cradle Catholic of many years! My Catholic school years go far enough back to have included daily Mass in the Latin Tridentine. Attending Mass was always about connecting/relating/talking to God. ***God was the focus and the purpose ***of attending Mass - not me or other people, not even the priest. It was God I was going to have a meeting with. Entering chapel or Church was a leaving behind of the world and entering into an environment that included above all, God and heaven. The words in the prayers of the Mass kept one’s mind in that direction. Altho the priest said the words in Latin, from the time we could read we had missals with the words in English – so we did our praying, interiorly, in English. For me, PARTICIPATION WAS AND IS ABOVE ALL AN “INTERIOR” CONNECTING AND INTERACTING WITH GOD involving the mind and heart primarily, altho not exclusively. (I believe that is the type of participation the Church also seeks to foster.) So perhaps, while someone looking at me as I’m absorbed in God might think I’m staring off into space and bored, nothing could be farther from the truth.

As I read comments by some other Catholics, I realize how blessed I was. I’m guessing those who find the Mass boring were probably never well catechized as to what actually is taking place during Mass - whereas that is something I was taught at a very young age. Or if they did receive the catechesis, for some reason they never really experienced the reality of it when attending Mass.

After graduating, I had occasion to attend a Protestant service. I remember that first time and vividly thinking afterwards - “But we never prayed”! (The Mass is all prayer, except for the sermon and when there is just singing of hymns - as opposed to sung parts of the Mass. Sometimes hymn lyrics are “prayer”, but all too often nowadays its questionable.) So, the two parts of the Mass that are least critical and important for me, seem to be the most important parts to others - and sometimes the only things that constitute their Sunday worship service.

Since then I have also attended a Lutheran, an Anglican (conservative) and a Methodist (also conservative) service. Those 3 services had a rite that was close to the Catholic rite of the Mass. So there was what I call prayer – and yet there was something missing. Of course, it is the Eucharistic presence of Jesus Himself - a presence that can be confected only by an ordained priest.

Regarding the fellowship/socializing after Mass. In my growing up years, I would guess the fasting regulations for Communion had a lot to do with it. When you haven’t had anything to eat or drink (not even water when I was very young), you’re pretty hungry and thirsty by the time 10 AM Mass is over. Ready to go home and have breakfast/dinner! Those days probably established the pattern or habit. Habits die hard.

But, there was plenty of socializing and fellowship – it just didn’t take place after Sunday Mass. For youth, it took place primarily in Catholic school and school activities. For adults, as well as youth, It took place at church dinners/festivals, funeral and wedding dinners, meetings of various groups, Catholic school programs, and just the social connections one had outside of Church activities with the people they knew from Church.

I have to agree tho, that the amount of fellowship nowadays in Catholic Churches has dropped dramatically. I believe that is due in large part to wives and mothers entering the work force. The post is long enough already, so I won’t go further into that.

 

[Protestant101]

Priotestant 101,

**You wrote: **The “Real Presence” can be experienced by Christians without “The Eucharist” or “Communion”.​

This is just so much sectarian persiflage and evasion of the issue. The “Real Presence” in the Eucharist is a Presence that is promised, assured, and objectively effected in the Mass (or Holy Communion, as Protestants prefer to call it).

“Persiflage!” Ha ha! I like that. Another new word for me from my friends at CAF! Thanks Brother.

Perhaps I could remind you though, that what I view the Mass as may not be all that different from other Catholics. From a few posts ago I quote:

Well, all i can say is that when I attend mass at my church h its the most boring thing ever. Nobody sings, everyone is just standing their live zombies. There are two Catholic churches and they are very dry and boring. I will admit, when I went to my fiancées church (she’s Assembly of God) people actually sang and rejoiced, as opposed to standing their looking disinterested and ready to go home.

I believe that in past discussions here I stated that I firmly believe Christ works at the Catholic Mass. I have no trouble with that basic principle. But I think there is a misunderstood portion of this phenomenon, regarding HOW Jesus does this. I would have no trouble going to a Mass with you my friend; but I would see it a bit differently.