Wishing to be Protestant again...

[Reuben_J]

It continually boggles me that some Catholics insist that they do not need these things, and that because some Protestants have them they must be inferior. A Catholic friend of mine thinks that many unhealthy Catholic practices come from the “magic cookie effect”. That is more to life than the Eucharist, strange as it is to find myself saying it.

Context. Though I don’t do it myself I can understand why Catholics say those and of course looking at it from the bigger perspective it is not always fair. But please remember that someone wants to leave the Catholic Church because of the poor quality of her fellowship and the seemingly coldness of her parishes.

 

[crazzeto]

Of course nothing on this earth compares with the beauty of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. So I agree that nothing compares with Mass, especially the Miracle of the Transubstantiation.

However, I can honestly say that there are Protestant worship services and experiences that open a door or window into heaven and give a glimpse of the glory of God.

The Holy Spirit is there among the Protestants, and He is the Lord and brings peace and conviction, and sometimes a mighty wind and miracles.

Some of the musical Protestant worship services are so beautiful that I truly believe the angels join in and sing. For 65 years in my city, a group of Christians has performed Handel’s Messiah. I’ve sung in the chorus, and I’ve sat in the audience. Either way, I feel that several of the choruses are ethereal in their majesty, and truly give honor and glory the Lord Jesus Christ.

I was privileged to attend Keith Green’s last concert before he died in a plane crash. Perhaps the Lord gave Keith some kind of special ability in those last days of his earthly life, because that concert was amazing, a peek into heaven.

I’ve been part of small group prayer meetings where we wrestled for souls and pleaded with the Lord to do mighty things, and He was there among us, and it was awe-inspiring.

Many of charismatic Protestants, especially in the African-American churches, literally forget all about this world as they worship, and see only Jesus.

Also, many Protestants have personally witnessed miracles, both physical and spiritual. Hard-core alcoholics have been wondrously converted and totally cured of any desire for alcohol. (The norm, though, is for the Lord to allow alcoholics to go through all kinds of struggles as they seek sobriety.) I’ve seen divorced couples re-united in marriage. I’ve seen children healed of diseases.

Finally, many Protestants experience martyrdom for their faith. The pastor of our Christian and Missionary Alliance church was a missionary in Viet Nam from the mid 1950s until 1972–that’s right, during the Viet Nam war. He and his wife had four children while they in Viet Nam–the children were born in the most primitive of conditions. He and his family were taken out of Viet Nam by American soldiers two weeks before the fall of Saigon. They made it out safely, but many of their fellow missionaries and the Vietnamese Christians died gruesome deaths at the hands of the Communists. One Protestant pastor was hung in a tree, and the Communists started at his feet and chopped them off with machetes. They worked their way up, chopping parts of his body away until there was nothing left.

I think that for these Protestant Christians, this “experience” of being martyred must surely rival the glories of the Catholic Mass, in which we encounter Jesus personally. I dare anyone to say that these Protestant martyrs are turned away from heaven by Jesus.

Yes, I will agree that the Mass is the epitome of our earthly experiences with Jesus. But Protestants come close once in a while.

Perhaps, but the thing is… The mass is a direct participation of the heavenly liturgy… I mean I appriciated it very much before just knowing the history of the mass and all… But having gone through a close study of the book of Revelation, I can tell you that while the blessed sacrament is the pinnical, it isn’t the entirty of it. The whole thing, is literally a participation in heaven with all the saints and angles.

I have no doubts one can have some terrific experiences at a protestant service, I’m not trying to knock it per-se. But from this perspective, it’s comparing worshing in heaven directly with the saints and angels, to something which is quite simply inherently more earth bound. While that doesn’t make it bad in any respect what so ever, it does make it uncomparable.

This in fact, is one of the major reasons why I’m dead set against any sort of fellowshiping in the Mass. Out side of I’m 1000% for it, start trying to do it in the mass and I’ll be out looking for a different Church.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Eucharisteo,

**You wrote: ** THANK GOD WE"RE CATHOLIC!!! We have the Eucharist and Confession. I see really holy people in the Church compared to some of the self-righteous we put up with in our previous faith. If you’ve ever been disfellowshiped before then you know what I mean. If not, then you have been very fortunate and must have toted the party line no matter what, even if it hurt people. At least that’s my opinion. Most of the Christians I know play the game at church but at home, away from family, pull out the wine glasses and dance the night away. You have to play along with it or be recipient of the hellfire and brimstone speeches that condemn you to hell. No thanks, I love Christ’s Church and the sacraments.​

Some good points there, Bro’ Euch! All that self-righteousness that Protestantism, and far worse, sectarianism, breed is just a lot of worthless chaff compared to the Catholic sacraments! We have Christ’s righteousness not merely imputed to us in some sort of judicial manner to cover over our real sinfulness from God’s and others’ sight, but measured out bountifully and given to us, instilled into our souls, growing in us, in receiving the sacraments, not only the Mass (as if that were not enough!), in which Christ gives Himself to us bodily (and in his life, mind, and divinity) in the Real Presence, but also in Confession when He takes away all of our newly accumulated moral grime, strengthening us thereby to follow him unhindered by the burden of past sin. We do not have to mint this for ourselves in bogus self-righteousness, because we receive His righteousness anew, as we did initially in Holy Baptism, a real washing away of sin (original and personal), not merely some personal act and pledge of subjective devotion by which we figuratively align ourselves with Christ; He aligns Himself objectively with us in this sacrament of regeneration.

Yup! All of those sectaries and the majority of Protestants prefer not to talk about such things in their sermons whether long or short, expository or anecdotal (or whatever)! It’s great for Catholic preachers to teach us about such matters, but it is even better that the same priests convey all of this to us in the sacraments that they administer to us.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[Hiskid1973]

Most of the Christians I know play the game at church but at home, away from family, pull out the wine glasses and dance the night away. You have to play along with it or be recipient of the hellfire and brimstone speeches that condemn you to hell. No thanks, I love Christ’s Church and the sacraments.

This is the total opposite of the believers I know and fellowship with…One of the most godly and mature believer I know is just a plain old christian who goes to a bible church…

 

[Hiskid1973]

@ Reuben J,

PRAYER and focus on JESUS! I LOVE HIM… “JESUS.” But I have a wonderful intimate relationship with Him and HE is what gets me through! …But when you lay it ALL before HIS feet (no matter how small the issues are or large) HE is Abba Father! HE loves us! HE will never call us somewhere without equiping us! So that is how I am able to transition, it’s ALL through and because of HIM. I don’t and can;t rely on my own strength and opinions.
But GOD! … Not saying feelings aren’t real. We can feel many emotions, and they may not be wrong…but we need to shift to only see HIM and what HE did for us and left for us, nothing more.

But it’s not because of me and who I am and how I thought to do things, it was all HIM and His leading and revealing.

That’s how… relying fully on the trinity!

Edited, but the same passion for Christ…He desires us to be HOT in our passion to Him…A lukewarm faith is a scary faith…HE inhabits the praise of His people…He is there when we gather in His name…

 

[BettyM]

*SACRAMENT. A sensible sign, instituted by Jesus Christ, by which invisible grace and inward sanctification are communicated to the soul. Catholic Dictionary

“sacrament” in its broadest sense, as the sign of something sacred and hidden"
New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia.

We defend these because of what they mean to us. Because of how very important they are. Because of how close they bring us to the Lord Jesus. To a Catholic it isn’t just about defending an opinion or one side of an argument or even a personal belief that could change with the passing wind. It is about defending the sacred, defending our Lord.*

Betty

 

[Bluegoat]

*SACRAMENT. A sensible sign, instituted by Jesus Christ, by which invisible grace and inward sanctification are communicated to the soul. Catholic Dictionary

“sacrament” in its broadest sense, as the sign of something sacred and hidden"
New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia.

We defend these because of what they mean to us. Because of how very important they are. Because of how close they bring us to the Lord Jesus. To a Catholic it isn’t just about defending an opinion or one side of an argument or even a personal belief that could change with the passing wind. It is about defending the sacred, defending our Lord.*

Betty

Yes, I know what a sacrament is.

But there is no call to “defend” the sacraments because someone suggests that there is room for improvement in other elements of Catholic religious expression or community. The Eucharist has not been attacked, and I suspect that no one really thinks it has - bringing it up seems more of a way to deflect from other issues rather than facing them directly.

People keep saying “fellowship” isn’t a problem, or required. But for example, I have many times heard the frustration of mothers with larger (or smaller) families, who are trying to follow the ccs teachings about family, but are in need of support - either help, or financial, or emotional, or just companionship of others in a similar situation. But most Catholic groups seem to fail in this compared to Protestant groups, or just understood on their own terms without reference to Protestants.

Why do people think having the Eucharist negates the need for this kind of thing? Why are people so reluctant to deal with these questions by former Protestants, who obviously have willingly chosen the Catholic Church, in a substantial way? Do people really feel so threatened that seeing anything good in another Christian group is impossible?

 

[ryecroft]

This may not be a very popular response, but I honestly have to say, be careful what you ask for - you may find yourself wishing for the days when there wasn’t much going on. I say this from experience as I was greatly involved with a co-cathedral - an was amember of the parish council as well as involved with the campus ministry. And oh how the politics did fly! There were priests who were openly gay, there was one that obviously cared for nothing other than the money going through the church - the rector was pining to make monseignor and was fielding off accusations from a woman in the church. There were really loud “discussions” over what happened to the money that the campus ministry brought in (God forbid it go to help the students at the university there!) There was a soup kitchen but people would get upset because they would come in and not be able to use the hall where all of “those” people were being fed. Then a group of brothers were brought in - and it seemed we had something close to a cult on our hands. I swear there was more drama at this place than on a soap opera! I wish it could have just been “fun” fellowship but everyone, including the priests and brothers were climbing over each other to get to the top. I finally stopped going there. I had a good friend who was a priest and found I was much happier without the drama and the large activities.
I hope it never gets close to that -
God Bless
Rye

 

[Cat]

@ Cat,

I guess according to your quote I am elgible to speak on behalf of the Protestants, since I just converted this Easter of being Pentecostal most my life. I have to be honest, I don’t feel or see these comments being offensive to the Protestant faith.My experience has been I have heard and seen more hate and rock throwing towards Catholics from Protestants. When i just recently converted, oh boy!! People have said the meanest and just unfair things towards the Catholic faith all based on assumption/misconceptions.

How can you speak on behalf of their hearts?? You can speak on how they do church/worship. Sorry, no offense please… but not every protestant worshiper/church goer is are all there to receive the holy spirit and be in “awe…” MANY MANY I know are there for entertainment, and that’s coming from my own conversations with many! I can’t judge their hearts, but I can base my opinion on their own words. I have been in pentecostal churches from california to michigan, all over… and my experience has been more of what these Catholic comments have been, sorry! I was in pastoral leadership and I was very active in a church recently for over 10yrs…and sorry, but it is not all what you are defending them to be. Many would worship at the altar to just nudge you in the hallway and treat you so cold and no different than a secular rock concert. How can they be in the throne of heaven one minute to wicked the next… yes, we are all sinners and fall short and make mistakes, agree. HOWEVER, my point is not speaking on perfection and short comings. My point is read the corinthian church. You can manifest in the gifts and APPEAR to be all in the holy spirit, but without “love” none of that matters! It doesn’t mean they have more of God’s favor or any of Gods favor, or maybe they do… but they are all gifts. Worship is a gift, tongues etc… but just because they are evident in the service doesn’t mean they are in right with the father.

None of us can attack them for only going there for entertainment and none of us can defend that that’s not true. We don’t know their hearts. But you will know them by their fruits… You can cry at an altar by the music, but what does that mean? what is your point? You know where someone’s focus is and their first love when you see where there money and time is…etc…

For me, my experience every single “protestant” church I was in from child up till this year… has been ALL about entertainment. Not saying that’s why they go, or that’s what they realize is in their hearts, or saying they don’t love Jesus or Jesus loves them less. Not saying any of that! But…, that’s the majority of what’s present. Events, excitement, and a 2 hour sermon based off one (if you’re lucky a paragraph) verse added with their bad or good week testimony. and the more motivating they are in their preaching style the more “powerful!” the word was!! Take away the music, what do you have?

There is good and bad in ALL churches/parishes. I can’t judge the hearts of Catholics. THey are not all nice, warm and fuzzy i admit. But I do know you walk in…, with your eyes, ears and all your senses, you will pick up reverence, peace, love, everything leads back to “christ”. No matter how many times I jumped, yelled, cried on my face in worship at church before…, I feel deceived. That wasn’t Christ centered…I thought. If you were to ask me or my friends I still have there, yes it is. But now that I know both worlds, it’s not.

Just because my husband says he loves me, if he is out all the time or cheated on me or sat in front of a tv all day etc…do I really believe his focus is on me and our marriage. Am I really going to walk away feeling our family was first…but he said it was…he had tears when he said it too…those are actions, those are fruits…(by the way my husband is amazing, just trying to make a point that just crying in an intimate way at an altar means nothing…). Where is Christ? Where’s the crucifixes in the church? Where’s the reverence?

However, I do think it’s imporant for fellowshiping.
-In His love

I agree with you that any worship, Protestant or Catholic, that doesn’t manifest itself in a loving and holy life outside of the church doors, is hypocrisy. Those who receive Eucharist and then immediately return to a life of sinful practices and who refuse to love their brothers and sisters, are insulting Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and IMO, are receiving Holy Communion unworthily.

I cannot argue with your experiences in the Protestant churches, but I will adamantly state that my experiences are very different and also valid and true. In this thread, I have described several examples of practical Christian love in Protestant churches.

I think that the Pentecostal Protestant churches (most of which could be considered evangelical), are at special risk for “entertainment mentality” because of the very physical nature of their worship style.

But just because they are at risk doesn’t mean that all Pentecostal churches are caught up in the entertainment mentality. How can you speak on behalf of their hearts and ascribe evil motives to all Protestants?

At any rate, what I would like to see is fairness. Catholics should not equate good music and physical worship (clapping, swaying, shouting “amen,” dancing, prophesying from the pews, etc.) with “entertainment.” That’s incorrect.

The Bible says that worshippers must worship God in spirit and in truth. There is nothing untrue about Protestant love for and commitment to Jesus. The Catechism of the Catholic Church makes it clear that the Protestant ecclesial communities have a portion of the truth. And who are we to judge whether Protestants are not worshipping “in spirit?” I would prefer not to make that judgement at the risk of blaspheming the Holy Spirit by disregarding His work as mere entertainment.

 

[Cat]

Context. Though I don’t do it myself I can understand why Catholics say those and of course looking at it from the bigger perspective it is not always fair. But please remember that someone wants to leave the Catholic Church because of the poor quality of her fellowship and the seemingly coldness of her parishes.

This is not so difficult to believe. There are many people who want to leave perfectly good marriages because they are lonely in that marriage. I think women especially long for companionship, and even if a husband if providing well for them and doing his duty, if the marriage is without deep fellowship, a woman will want to leave, even knowing that divorce is wrong.

As I have said many times already in this thread, human beings have been created by God with a need for deep fellowship and community. It is very, VERY hard to be lonely in the midst of Christians, even with Jesus Truly Present.

I realize that this is a shocking statement. But I stand by it. We are humans, and need other humans. God made us that way. If I had only Eucharist, I would try to be happy and satisfied. But deep down inside, I would long for friends. Wouldn’t you? Or can you honestly say that you need nothing else–no family, no friends, no human contact–just Jesus? Maybe someday I’ll be able to say that, but right now, in all honesty, I need the Church–my Christian brothers and sisters. Lord, forgive my human weakness.

Jesus was God and certainly did not need anyone else but Himself, but He still sought out human companionship on this earth. So did His Mother.

After all, we are human, in spite of our close relationship to Jesus our Brother and Savior. Most of us are not perfect yet on this earth, and most of us are unable to find complete satisfaction and fulfilment with Jesus Only. We long for friends. **There is absolutely nothing wrong or sinful or evil about that. **

Some of the saints learned to find complete fulfilment in Jesus, but most continued to live in community with other human beings. Biographies of the mystic, St. Teresa of Avila, describe a woman who enjoyed being with the sisters in her order, and loved a good joke and good conversation.

I would venture to say that many many Catholics leave their churches because they are lonely and have no friends. Some go to other Christian fellowships, and others, sadly, find their companions in bars, clubs, sports, arts, and other institutions of this world that offer friendly people who enjoy doing fun things together.

 

[Cat]

Yea, I hear you brother. I miss the disfellowshiping, divisiveness, backstabbing, the truly saved because we showed up on Wednesday night or Sunday nights. Lord help us if we missed anything, we’d never hear the end of it. Yep, fellowship with a gun to your head. No thank you. After floating around from city to city and congregation to congregation listening to them complain about the liberal congregations on the North Elmore Church across town. I can do without those piercing hateful looks and remarks because my wife’s dress was not far enough below the knee and I asked the bible instructor uncomfortable questions he did not know the answers to, or because we disagreed that door knocking to convert the lost Catholics living in Apartments - poor people condemned and didn’t even know it.

I’m happy being Catholic. Not all priests are that boring. Ours is truly gifted and gives his all. So we’re very lucky I’m sure. But I’ve been through the ringer on boring homilies before and also in the previous congregations we belonged to before converting. That is neither here nor there in my book. the message is what I’m looking for and if God is speaking to me through the preacher.

THANK GOD WE"RE CATHOLIC!!! We have the Eucharist and Confession. I see really holy people in the Church compared to some of the self-righteous we put up with in our previous faith. If you’ve ever been disfellowshiped before then you know what I mean. If not, then you have been very fortunate and must have toted the party line no matter what, even if it hurt people. At least that’s my opinion. Most of the Christians I know play the game at church but at home, away from family, pull out the wine glasses and dance the night away. You have to play along with it or be recipient of the hellfire and brimstone speeches that condemn you to hell. No thanks, I love Christ’s Church and the sacraments.

eucharisteo, I cannot negate your experiences, since they are true for you. Yes, of course there are hypocritical Christians, both Catholic and Protestant.

But this is NOT the norm for Protestant Christians (or Catholics, for that matter). I know thousands of Protestant Christians (and Catholic Christians) who live their Christianity OUTSIDE of the Church doors and who bring honor and glory to Jesus by their holy, loving lives. Many of these Christians sacrifice much in the way of material goods to be able to give to the poor and to help advance the kingdom of Christ. Many of these Christians spend their time doing what St. Paul advised–“Make it your ambition to live a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands.” (I Thessalonians 4:11)

I am saddened that the implication has been made that these faithful Christians behave sinfully outside the church doors. That’s just not true of all Protestants, even if it has been your experience.

This is what I am trying to stop on this thread–these generalizations and blanket statements and black-and-white proclamations that are based on personal experiences and that are inaccurate and grossly unfair! These statements are not just unfair to the Christians, but they are misreprenting the Holy Spirit, who is leading and guiding Protestant Christians as well as Catholic Christians. (Of course I pray that the Holy Spirit will lead the Protestant Christians home to the Catholic Church! ).

Like I said, I can’t argue with personal experiences. If you and others have met bad-butted Protestant “christians” and “Funhouse” Protestant churches, then that is the truth. But it is not fair to extrapolate that experience and assume that all Protestant Christians and churches are the same as what you have experienced.

I accept that not all Protestants and their churches are wonderful and loving. I’ve described in horrific detail the awful experience at the last Protestant church that our family attended. That church is a blight and I would hate to be one of the pastors of that church at the Final Judgement.

But I would never make a blanket statement that all Protestants and their churches are like that church.

 

[FrankM]

I’m also speaking from my first hand experience, with our Bishop here where I live… Also With Archbishop Adam Mida in Detroit (where I was raised). You have yet to provide anything factual, when you get something factual might I suggest you start your very own thread on this very topic, rather than derailing another posters thread?

Dear Crazzeto,
Go back to my first thread. I am very clear on facts. Add to that a very real fact that emails to the Bishop are about as likely to be read by Santa Claus. And attempting to see the Bishop for a spiritual need, very real, like a Kobe Bryant rejection. You are a very kind person, I’m sure, and my personal views are in no way a reflection for the every single dioceses. My comments were directed initially to the quote above my first response. No need to go further with this. It is an unfortunate fact in my view of what is missing from the ‘Catholic Church’, that being real faith in the scriptures.
By the way, do you believe that a couple, married outside the church, but living a Jesus centered, Catholic lifestyle have at least the same rights to Holy Communion as do the SSA’s?

 

[mmsiciliana]

Hi, I chose that title to be somewhat provocative to hopefully garner people who could reply to this thread. I converted from Protestantism more than 10 years ago and I am happy to be Catholic. However, having said that I do miss much of the social aspects of a Protestant church. There were programs and bible studies for every age group; there were many ways of connecting to different people in your church–I had lots of friends in church and we would call each other up and do things together. There would be family picnics and other outings the church would sponsor.

In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.

I have brought some of my brothers and sisters in to the Church, but we all are beginning to pine for the days when going to church was enjoyable.

It does really appear to me that the Catholic Church, as an institution, does not foster fellowship anywhere near as much as the Protestant churches do. Am I wrong?

And before you say to me, “Well then, you get something started at your church!”, I’m trying to make the point that as an institution the Catholic church does not foster fellowship. I don’t want to be one person trying to roll a rock up hill, I want to be part of a Church that encourages fellowship.

As I mentioned before, I helped bring others to the Catholic Church, but now I’ve got a dilemma. My two kids, ages 12 and 13 are really complaining about going to our ‘boring church’ when their Protestant friends do all these really fun activities their churches sponsor. And I have an older son who may be considering becoming Catholic, but he has 4 children ages 1-6. I wince at the prospect of telling him he can’t put his children in Sunday School while he and his wife go to mass, but instead he has to keep four children under control for an hour while having to listen to a boring sermon. These are not show stoppers, but they really detract from giving incentives to joining the Church.

Any thought are welcome. But does anyone else see this lack of fellowship problem?

I don’t know where you are located, but in my parish, there are multiple opportunities for Bible Studies and further education in the Catholic faith. We have a nursery for children ages 1-4 at 2 of our Sunday Masses where the little ones do crafts and learn about their faith while their parents attend Mass. We have Children’s Liturgy of the Word also at one of those Masses for children ages 5-10 to have the Scriptures proclaimed to them at their own level. We have a parish picnic every year with Mass outside in a local park that is well attended by people of all ages. Perhaps you could approach your pastor and speak with him about starting some of these in your own parish. Since you are the one noticing this, perhaps God is calling you to do something about it.

However, the most important aspect of being a Catholic is that we have access to the fullness of the faith, the Sacraments, and most of all, the Blessed Sacrament. Jesus gives Himself to us, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity during the act of worshiping God in the most perfect manner possible–whether the homilies are boring or not.

By the way, I have seven children, who I took to Mass every week by myself since my husband didn’t practice any faith.

 

[tweetymom]

This is the total opposite of the believers I know and fellowship with…One of the most godly and mature believer I know is just a plain old christian who goes to a bible church…

Exactly Hiskid,I have never been in a Protestant church as some describe here, and I went for 35 years. I loved and still do my old time religion.God Bless your family.Prayers for DIL and grandson.

 

[BettyM]

I think this thread has gotten out of hand. I think everyone would agree here that people need people. We always need fellowship with others. That is why we are on this forum.
I think we are getting a little carried away to say protestants are friendlier than Catholics or Catholics are friendlier than protestants. That is silly and pretty much not based on facts.
There are friendly and unfriendly people in both churches. Both protestant and catholic churches have activities to get involved in. They have to be sought out. If there isn’t something in a particular parish call the diocese. Call your parish office. The catholic church is a very social organization with activities going on in many different ministries to get involved in. Before posting this thread I checked several different diocesian websites.
All had numerous ministries looking for help.

The main point is someone is considering leaving the Catholic church, walking away from the fullness of truth, the most complete communion you will get to Jesus this side of heaven. We need to be extremely cautious in which way we are leading this person. This is their soul and eternity we are talking about.

 

[distracted]

***objectively speaking those who leave the True Church because it is not as friendly as their old Protestant churches… are choosing human beings over Christ…

Jesus said that those who do not HATE mother, father, sister, [etc… etc] cannot be His followers…

If you reject the Church, you are rejecting Him…

as one (at least) saint said: The Church IS Christ (St Catherine of Sienna?)***

 

[distracted]

@ Cat,

I, since I just converted this Easter of being Pentecostal most my life.

congrats!

I have to be honest, I don’t feel or see these comments being offensive to the Protestant faith.My experience has been I have heard and seen more hate and rock throwing towards Catholics from Protestants.

MANY MANY I know are there for entertainment, and that’s coming from my own conversations with many! I can’t judge their hearts, but I can base my opinion on their own words. …and no different than a secular rock concert. How can they be in the throne of heaven one minute to wicked the next… yes, we are all sinners and fall short and make mistakes, agree. HOWEVER, my point is not speaking on perfection and short comings. My point is read the corinthian church. You can manifest in the gifts and APPEAR to be all in the holy spirit, but without “love” none of that matters! It doesn’t mean they have more of God’s favor or any of Gods favor, or maybe they do… but they are all gifts. Worship is a gift, tongues etc… but just because they are evident in the service doesn’t mean they are in right with the father.

None of us can attack them for only going there for entertainment and none of us can defend that that’s not true. We don’t know their hearts. But you will know them by their fruits… You can cry at an altar by the music, but what does that mean? what is your point?*** You know where someone’s focus is and their first love when you see where there money and time is…etc…***

For me, my experience every single “protestant” church I was in from child up till this year… has been ALL about entertainment. Not saying that’s why they go, or that’s what they realize is in their hearts, or saying they don’t love Jesus or Jesus loves them less. Not saying any of that! But…, that’s the majority of what’s present. Events, excitement, and a*** 2 hour sermon based off one (if you’re lucky a paragraph) verse ***added with their bad or good week testimony. and the more motivating they are in their preaching style the more “powerful!” the word was!! Take away the music, what do you have?

There is good and bad in ALL churches/parishes.*** I can’t judge the hearts of Catholics. THey are not all nice, warm and fuzzy i admit. But I do know you walk in…, with your eyes, ears and all your senses, you will pick up reverence, peace, love, everything leads back to “christ”. ***No matter how many times I jumped, yelled, cried on my face in worship at church before…, I feel deceived. That wasn’t Christ centered..I thought. If you were to ask me or my friends I still have there, yes it is. But now that I know both worlds, it’s not.

Just because my husband says he loves me, if he is out all the time or cheated on me or sat in front of a tv all day etc…do I really believe his focus is on me and our marriage. Am I really going to walk away feeling our family was first…but he said it was…he had tears when he said it too…those are actions, those are fruits…(by the way my husband is amazing, just trying to make a point that just crying in an intimate way at an altar means nothing…). Where is Christ? Where’s the crucifixes in the church? Where’s the reverence?

However, I do think it’s imporant for fellowshiping.
-In His love

thank you SO much!! Love reading this…

i think you did get a lot out of all that preaching, though… but still… something is missing in nonC churches… (they acutally aren’t churches cuz there’s only one true Church… but whatever… the RCc calls them ecclesiastical communitities)

anyhow… this is a powerful testimony you have…

i got mad at my priest one time and got tired of all the coldness in the my parish as well… went to a non-C church… i began to feel actually LONELY… more lonely than when i am alone… missed the Real Presence… felt i was NOT at home… and this was NOT a bad “church”…

haven’t been to one of those since…

 

[eucharisteo]

eucharisteo, I cannot negate your experiences, since they are true for you. Yes, of course there are hypocritical Christians, both Catholic and Protestant.
…
This is what I am trying to stop on this thread–these generalizations and blanket statements and black-and-white proclamations that are based on personal experiences and that are inaccurate and grossly unfair! These statements are not just unfair to the Christians, but they are misreprenting the Holy Spirit, who is leading and guiding Protestant Christians as well as Catholic Christians. (Of course I pray that the Holy Spirit will lead the Protestant Christians home to the Catholic Church! ).

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Who appointed you the defender of negative experiences in anything. You are way out of line IMHO. I’m glad you found your way to the Catholic Church. But not all Protestants are among equals. Our faith tradition was very judgmental. Over the past 20 years there have been factions growing against factions. We’ve seen many splits and know of many preachers fired for not saying what the elders want to hear or because someone’s wife was offended by something that was true. So please, stop harassing me. This is not the first time you’ve done this to me. If you don’t like what I type, then don’t read it or at least put me on ignore. I shared my real experiences and am offended by the way you try to change it just like a rape victim gets accused of asking for it because of the way she, or he, dressed or spoke or something. It’s inappropriate to say it. So don’t say it. Give your experience and leave others alone.

 

[eucharisteo]

I think you have summed up much of the frustration I feel with these threads, Cat. On the one hand, there are some Protestant groups that have far too much emphasis on attracting new people, and will do whatever it takes to do so, without offering much to deepen the spiritual life of those who are already there.

But most of the time, Protestant communities are doing very much the same thing the Catholic ones are.

I find the Catholic responses to these things to be very defensive - “well, we have the real Sacraments, nah nah nah nah nah”. In my parish, people put a lot of time and effort into the liturgy and the music, not to be “entertaining” but top glorify God. And at the best Catholic efforts, the same thing happens, and it is beautiful, and people are emotionally moved.

And as far as “fellowship” what that is about is a community. A pot-luck supper, or a bible study, are a way to be together as a community, to share our journey with others, to find strength and companionship. And it is harder than ever to really find these things, with people living far away from their families, and the large numbers of non-Christians. People really do need opportunities for Christian friendships, especially between the ages of 12 and 25. In fact, I think that is part of the reason forums like this are so popular.

It continually boggles me that some Catholics insist that they do not need these things, and that because some Protestants have them they must be inferior. A Catholic friend of mine thinks that many unhealthy Catholic practices come from the “magic cookie effect”. That is more to life than the Eucharist, strange as it is to find myself saying it.

This is why I hate the term “Protestant”. I regards all non-Catholic Christians as “Protestant”, which may in a sense be the same as saying all planets are dead. Well that fails to include earth and the unknowns, if any. I’m sure someone could come up with a better analogy. But I assume people are speaking from their faith tradition when I speak to them or hear them say things. I know cradle Catholic or usually clueless about who believes what. In our previous tradition we studied what the various religions believed. That in no way made us better but we at least knew the main points of what other believed and rejected them on the basis of their false teachings or methods of worship.

So, if you are irritated at this thread, just speak from your own faith experience and don’t assume so much.

 

[eucharisteo]

This is the total opposite of the believers I know and fellowship with…One of the most godly and mature believer I know is just a plain old christian who goes to a bible church…

Your experience is not the same tradition and not the same experience. Most means those that I knew and know. Those converts from my same tradition agree with me entirely. They, like us, still contend with their very negative experiences with family and friends always treating them like lost souls. They appear to always, like Catholics, come up with intervention style schemes to convert their family or friends back to the truth. Most of us have had to place barriers between us and them. The irony is that usually all of the ones we know will say on the side without a witness that they don’t have a problem with this or that. But place them in the setting of the leaders and others and they’ll tote the line. I do believe that this is mostly unique with those from our cult. Many have even talked about it like it is a cult. So Please stop trying to confront me like I don’t know what I’m talking about. If I were Muslim you wouldn’t even say anything because you’d automatically assume I was right if I had left Islam for Christianity.