Wishing to be Protestant again...

[Cat]

Amy1966,

If you’ve read this thread, you know that my husband and I were evangelical Protestant for 47 years.

We used to believe that each individual Christian was led by the Holy Spirit to correctly interpret Scripture.

The pastors that threw my family out of the Protestant church used the Bible to justify their cruel and capricious treatment of us.

Others have used and still use the Bible to justify racism and slavery, domination and abuse of a spouse, abuse of children, murder, genocide, homosexual practices (sex), etc.

Less seriously, many individuals and church fellowships use the Bible to justify banning everything from alcohol to dancing to live theater to baseball games on Sunday.

And then there all the different doctrines regarding salvation. Once on a Protestant forum, I asked the simple question, “How is a person saved?” The thread went on for many pages, and although there was some simliarity between the answers (“believe in Jesus Christ”), all of the answers were different.

It’s one thing when Christians can’t agree on whether dancing is acceptable to the Lord–big deal. But when Christians can’t agree on how a person can spend eternity with the Lord Jesus in heaven instead of in hell–well, that’s pretty serious, and we’d better darn well agree for the sake of the souls of all mankind.

Many Christians can’t even figure out how the Bible condemns abortion (because there is no verse that states directly, “Abortion is evil”), so they continue to argue that abortion is permissible and cause horrible spiritual and physical damage to our great country by sitting on the fence and claiming that the Bible allows abortion or at least doesn’t condemn it.

I know you’ve heard of Elisabeth Elliott, and probably respect her as I did (and still do) when I was evangelical Protestant. Her brother Thomas Howard converted to Catholicism quite a few years ago. I’m sure you’ll agree that the Howard family was raised “right”, and know the Scriptures well, and that they are knowledgeable and intelligent. Thomas Howard has written several wonderful books. I suggest that you order a copy of** Lead, Kindly Light**. Mr. Howard discusses the problems that he had with the Protestant churches and their lack of unity when it comes to interpreting the Bible. It’s a short little book, but pithy and beautifully-written.

 

[crazzeto]

Hi Amy, I’m going to try to not accidently click my back button again on my mouse, I lost a whole reply last night. Then I have to appologize because I won’t be able to respond much today at all, I’m looking at one very very busy day today including preparing to teach my 6th grade Catechism Class

This Christian believes the Scriptures that are God-breathed are the only true revelation from God.

In so far as all of scripture being God breathed every Christian should agree and in fact this has been the constant teaching of the Catholic Church now into it’s third millenium. We take scripture very seriously in fact, and in particular the very verse you quoted just now:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Emphisis mine, what this says is that every last bit of canonized Sacrade Scripture is in fact the inspired Word of God. What this means is that one can not read any verse of scripture in isolation of any other, more over the “whole book” (actually a collection of but i degress) must make sense as a single entity. That is to say, one verse can not refute another verse, rather they must all play nice together.

What it doesn’t say is that second half of your statement, that only scripture is God breathed etc… What some Christian’s read is:

2Ti 3:16 -]All/-] Only scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Does something look amiss?

Many religions make that claim whether 50 years or 2000 years. The Bible has several warnings about adding or subtracting from the Scriptures.

Revelation 22 being the strongest of such admonishments, which is why the Catholic Church as carefully and faithfully preserved scripture going into it’s third millenium now. With no additions, and no subtractions. You can’t imagine how much it pained us to see Luther successfully subtract the 7 DC’s, and attempt to also subtract James, Jude, Hebrews and Revelation, thanks be to God he was unsuccessful in his attempts to remove these books in which he some how, Lord only knows, managed to not find Christ in.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Is the bible God Amy?

Is the Christian God breathed and part of God? Is the Scripture God breathed and part of God?

Did Jesus utter the very words of God? Are the Scriptures the very voice of God? The Bible is that voice in a written form, but the words, which are what count, are the very words of God and words are not physical, but were spoken by the physical God-man Jesus Christ.

Every baptised Christian is a member of the body of Christ, but I want you to think about this carefully, does that make any baptised Christian God? Are you God? Or are we rather, the adopted Childeren of God… There is quite the distinct difference there isn’t there?

Thus Scripture, again I ask you, is the Bible God? I also used Rev 19:11-13 Amy, what is the Word of God?

The verse says “did”, not taught and you know that you are just plugging a sound bite. Given that Jesus healed thousands if not tens of thousands; I’m sure if it were all written in detail it would be enormous.

You’re making me reposted the Scripture for review Amy:

KJV

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Who is the Word of God Amy? Who is it that is called Faithful and True, who is sitting upon that White Horse, doth judge and make war, who’s eyes are as flame of fire and who is wearing the Crown? Is it the bible waring the Crown? Are you not at risk of evelvating the bible up above Christ him self? I certainly hope not, and I certainly do not believe it right now for such a thing is so terrible to even comprahend.

By word takes prominence over the written; since they are one in the same there is no dominance, they are equal according to Paul. Where is Magesterium and its evolved function(s) or the concept of Magesterium ever taught as doctrine by any of the NT or OT writers?

End Part 1

 

[crazzeto]

Start Part 2
Now we’re getting somewhere Amy, yes I’m glad that you finally admit that the traditions of the Church are equal to the written word in the Bible, as the Bible it’s self is in fact, a Tradition of the Church. Now where’s the Magisterium? Well first lets look back at the very verse you quoted, as well as the very idea you just expounded, that the oral word of the Apostles carried the same weight as the written word.

Wouldnt’ they need some sort of authority for that? I think you ahve to admit that this is certainly the case, certainly the Apostles had authority otherwise neither their written nor oral word would have been of much value would it have been?

Now lets look at another concept, from the KJV:

2Ti 4:22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen. The second epistle unto Timotheus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Ephesians, was written from Rome, when Paul was brought before Nero the second time.

Timothy was a Bishop, the first of the Ephesians in fact, ordained by Paul him self! What kind of authority does a bishop have, what is it they do? Peter has something to say here in his second Epistle:

KJV

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

And it doesn’t just stop here, in his second Epistle to Timothy, Paul exhorts Timothy to appoint other Bishops to pass on those traditions we discussed earlier

2Ti 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

 

[KC91]

Depends on country to country, diocese to diocese, parish to parish. My parish has many social activities and facilities as it is the parish of the Bishop’s Cathederal, so try to find a bigger one.

 

[rschermer2]

Hi, I chose that title to be somewhat provocative to hopefully garner people who could reply to this thread. I converted from Protestantism more than 10 years ago and I am happy to be Catholic. However, having said that I do miss much of the social aspects of a Protestant church. There were programs and bible studies for every age group; there were many ways of connecting to different people in your church–I had lots of friends in church and we would call each other up and do things together. There would be family picnics and other outings the church would sponsor.

In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.

I have brought some of my brothers and sisters in to the Church, but we all are beginning to pine for the days when going to church was enjoyable.

It does really appear to me that the Catholic Church, as an institution, does not foster fellowship anywhere near as much as the Protestant churches do. Am I wrong?

And before you say to me, “Well then, you get something started at your church!”, I’m trying to make the point that as an institution the Catholic church does not foster fellowship. I don’t want to be one person trying to roll a rock up hill, I want to be part of a Church that encourages fellowship.

As I mentioned before, I helped bring others to the Catholic Church, but now I’ve got a dilemma. My two kids, ages 12 and 13 are really complaining about going to our ‘boring church’ when their Protestant friends do all these really fun activities their churches sponsor. And I have an older son who may be considering becoming Catholic, but he has 4 children ages 1-6. I wince at the prospect of telling him he can’t put his children in Sunday School while he and his wife go to mass, but instead he has to keep four children under control for an hour while having to listen to a boring sermon. These are not show stoppers, but they really detract from giving incentives to joining the Church.

Any thought are welcome. But does anyone else see this lack of fellowship problem?

Have you looked into the Knights of Columbus, The Catholic Women’s League, The Squires (Knights of Columbus for the young), The Lay Franciscan’s, The St. Vincent de Paul Society etc.?

Just checking.

Thanks,
Rochus

 

[Nicea325]

Amy1966:

**The Scriptures are “God breathed”; just as you are. It is the very reason why Scripture, unlike any other book, has the ability to influence and change lives. The Scriptures are part of God just as the Christian is part of God. Perhaps the Scriptures have not transformed your life; only you and the Holy Spirit can determine that. **

No one is going to argue Scripture is God breathed,which is not the issue at hand. The issue at hand is the belief that Christianity is a religion of the book,exclusively and it is NOT! Christianity is a faith of the person…Jesus.

Now,since you say the Bible has the ability to influence and change lives,can you please tell me what scriptures Abraham read to be influenced?

 

[Nicea325]

Amy1966:

**Nice sentiment and exceptional in your experience, but have you looked around at here; many Catholics will say you are not a Christian unless you belong to the Catholic church. I believe I saw a current thread on that specific topic. **

Well those Catholics are wrong for saying such a comment. Those Catholics need to read up on what the RCC teaches and says about other Christians outside the RCC.

 

[distracted]

This is why I hate the term “Protestant”. I regards all non-Catholic Christians as “Protestant”, which may in a sense be the same as saying all planets are dead. Well that fails to include earth and the unknowns, if any. I’m sure someone could come up with a better analogy. But I assume people are speaking from their faith tradition when I speak to them or hear them say things. ***I know cradle Catholic or usually clueless about who believes what. In our previous tradition we studied what the various religions believed. ***.

I’m just glad i have moved beyond BELIEF…

i do not believe the Catholic Church is the right Church… the Original Church, the one established by Christ, the one He promised would never fail… that the gates of Hell would never prevail agnst… (st Mt 16:18)

I KNOW it is … and i am SO thankful***** that i know… All that uncertainty about stuff was just awful…:whacky::hypno:*

 

[distracted]

Amy1966,

If you’ve read this thread, you know that my husband and I were evangelical Protestant for 47 years.

***And then there all the different doctrines regarding salvation. Once on a Protestant forum, I asked the simple question, “How is a person saved?” The thread went on for many pages, and although there was some simliarity between the answers (“believe in Jesus Christ”), all of the answers were different.

It’s one thing when Christians can’t agree on whether dancing is acceptable to the Lord–big deal. But when Christians can’t agree on how a person can spend eternity with the Lord Jesus in heaven instead of in hell–well, that’s pretty serious***, and we’d better darn well agree for the sake of the souls of all mankind.

Many Christians can’t even figure out how the Bible condemns abortion (because there is no verse that states directly, “Abortion is evil”), so they continue to argue that abortion is permissible and cause horrible spiritual and physical damage to our great country by sitting on the fence and claiming that the Bible allows abortion or at least doesn’t condemn it.

.

***(because there is no verse that states directly, “Abortion is evil”), so they continue to argue that abortion is permissible and cause horrible spiritual and physical damage to our great country by sitting on the fence and claiming that the Bible allows abortion or at least doesn’t condemn it. ***

i guess ***Thou shalt not commit murder ***isn’t specific enough…

 

[Cat]

***(because there is no verse that states directly, “Abortion is evil”), so they continue to argue that abortion is permissible and cause horrible spiritual and physical damage to our great country by sitting on the fence and claiming that the Bible allows abortion or at least doesn’t condemn it. ***

i guess ***Thou shalt not commit murder ***isn’t specific enough…

No, it isn’t, distracted, because they don’t consider abortion “murder” because they don’t consider the fetus a person. (I’m not sure how they deal with passages in the Bible like Psalm 139, etc.)

 

[crazzeto]

No, it isn’t, distracted, because they don’t consider abortion “murder” because they don’t consider the fetus a person. (I’m not sure how they deal with passages in the Bible like Psalm 139, etc.)

Exodus perscribes a specific punishment for hitting a woman with child, and the death of the child as a result… It’s in there, people don’t want to see it.

 

[patsydtr]

Hi, I chose that title to be somewhat provocative to hopefully garner people who could reply to this thread. I converted from Protestantism more than 10 years ago and I am happy to be Catholic. However, having said that I do miss much of the social aspects of a Protestant church. There were programs and bible studies for every age group; there were many ways of connecting to different people in your church–I had lots of friends in church and we would call each other up and do things together. There would be family picnics and other outings the church would sponsor.

In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.

I have brought some of my brothers and sisters in to the Church, but we all are beginning to pine for the days when going to church was enjoyable.

It does really appear to me that the Catholic Church, as an institution, does not foster fellowship anywhere near as much as the Protestant churches do. Am I wrong?

And before you say to me, “Well then, you get something started at your church!”, I’m trying to make the point that as an institution the Catholic church does not foster fellowship. I don’t want to be one person trying to roll a rock up hill, I want to be part of a Church that encourages fellowship.

As I mentioned before, I helped bring others to the Catholic Church, but now I’ve got a dilemma. My two kids, ages 12 and 13 are really complaining about going to our ‘boring church’ when their Protestant friends do all these really fun activities their churches sponsor. And I have an older son who may be considering becoming Catholic, but he has 4 children ages 1-6. I wince at the prospect of telling him he can’t put his children in Sunday School while he and his wife go to mass, but instead he has to keep four children under control for an hour while having to listen to a boring sermon. These are not show stoppers, but they really detract from giving incentives to joining the Church.

Any thought are welcome. But does anyone else see this lack of fellowship problem?

I am truly sorry that your spiritual needs are not being fulfilled by your parish! And please believe me when I say, this is not the norm in the Catholic Church. In my parish, we have Sunday School for the little ones, while parents are at mass. We have coffee fellowship after each mass, we have Bible study groups for both adults and kids. The kids do so much in the church, car washes, spaghetti dinners. We have parishioners without partners, Catholic Daughters, Knights of Columbus. Sewing groups, prayer chain…I could go on and on. I believe you should speak to your priest about the lack of these things. Perhaps you could get the ball rolling and start up a coffeehouse after a mass. Ask your priest. Is there a school attached to your parish? We also have an elementary school attached and that does make a big difference, but all it takes is one person to change things.

 

[Anneymay]

The hateful judgement that I see going back and forth on this forum is exactly why I quit going to church…any church. I was born and raised Catholic and every single church I have gone to, of which there have been many, the people have taken pride in how much better they are than someone else. Sadly, being a woman myself, I found the women of each church has been the worst with their hateful gossip. There was no sign that Jesus lived within them at all. The pastors of the churches were more interested in the numbers, which ones paid more in tithe and how many they could put down as members than they were in being straight forward in their teaching for fear they might offend someone. The last church I went to nearly drove my daughter away from God and Jesus completely. That was enough for me and I walked away from all of them and walked right over to God. Now, I am not saying that I am perfect by any means but I am saying that it is so much easier to do my best to put my best foot forward and to love God and let His light shine through me. It is so nice to go through the day without hearing about who did what to whom. Since that time the Lord brought to my attention my own choices of judging others and the consequences of it. It took a good bit of prayer but the Holy Spirit showed me why judgement is for God to do and not us. We are not built to handle the stress of judging others and when I learned that and applied it to my life I felt a new freedom. When I see someone doing something that I don’t see as right, I just know that I will not take part in what they do, pray for God’s will in their life, and leave the rest to God. It is wonderful to not have any hate or stress over what others do. This in turn leaves my life and spirit open to enjoy my walk with the Lord.

Hi, I chose that title to be somewhat provocative to hopefully garner people who could reply to this thread. I converted from Protestantism more than 10 years ago and I am happy to be Catholic. However, having said that I do miss much of the social aspects of a Protestant church. There were programs and bible studies for every age group; there were many ways of connecting to different people in your church–I had lots of friends in church and we would call each other up and do things together. There would be family picnics and other outings the church would sponsor.

In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.

I have brought some of my brothers and sisters in to the Church, but we all are beginning to pine for the days when going to church was enjoyable.

It does really appear to me that the Catholic Church, as an institution, does not foster fellowship anywhere near as much as the Protestant churches do. Am I wrong?

And before you say to me, “Well then, you get something started at your church!”, I’m trying to make the point that as an institution the Catholic church does not foster fellowship. I don’t want to be one person trying to roll a rock up hill, I want to be part of a Church that encourages fellowship.

As I mentioned before, I helped bring others to the Catholic Church, but now I’ve got a dilemma. My two kids, ages 12 and 13 are really complaining about going to our ‘boring church’ when their Protestant friends do all these really fun activities their churches sponsor. And I have an older son who may be considering becoming Catholic, but he has 4 children ages 1-6. I wince at the prospect of telling him he can’t put his children in Sunday School while he and his wife go to mass, but instead he has to keep four children under control for an hour while having to listen to a boring sermon. These are not show stoppers, but they really detract from giving incentives to joining the Church.

Any thought are welcome. But does anyone else see this lack of fellowship problem?

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Y’all, Catholics and others,

Alas, as so often happens in C.A. fora, when the word “Protestant” occurs in a forum title, then it is the sectaries (Baptists, Pentecostals, Campbellites, et alia) who leap in to distract attention from genuinely historic, and “magesterial” Protestantism (Lutheranism, Presbyterianism-Reformed, Anglicanism). That is why this forum and similar ones get bogged down in fanatical zealotry and picayune negations of basic Christian teaching of the bitterly anti-Catholic sectaries rather than deal with what truly is Protestant.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[CatholicFireman]

Y’all, Catholics and others,

Alas, as so often happens in C.A. fora, when the word “Protestant” occurs in a forum title, then it is the sectaries (Baptists, Pentecostals, Campbellites, et alia) who leap in to distract attention from genuinely historic, and “magesterial” Protestantism (Lutheranism, Presbyterianism-Reformed, Anglicanism). That is why this forum and similar ones get bogged down in fanatical zealotry and picayune negations of basic Christian teaching of the bitterly anti-Catholic sectaries rather than deal with what truly is Protestant.

Pax, Jerry Parker

Oh, you noticed that too?

 

[distracted]

***i have often felt the desire to go to a non-C “church”… the desire never lasts long once i get there…

i always start missing the Real Presence… actually start feeling downright LONELY… without Him…

once you spend a lot of time with Him There… especially the Exposed Sacrament… you will never want to go back… unless you … uh… well, i can’t see any situation where anyone would want to go back… not one…***

 

[Loboto-Me]

Y’all, Catholics and others,

Alas, as so often happens in C.A. fora, when the word “Protestant” occurs in a forum title, then it is the sectaries (Baptists, Pentecostals, Campbellites, et alia) who leap in to distract attention from genuinely historic, and “magesterial” Protestantism (Lutheranism, Presbyterianism-Reformed, Anglicanism). That is why this forum and similar ones get bogged down in fanatical zealotry and picayune negations of basic Christian teaching of the bitterly anti-Catholic sectaries rather than deal with what truly is Protestant.

Pax, Jerry Parker

You said what I’ve been thinking for a long time. Hard to keep up with the “sectaries” as you worded it.

 

[Keegan524]

eucharisteo, I too grew up in a conservative church of Christ congregation. When I married my (Catholic) husband, it was a shock to my family and church family as well. Being a military family and living far away for the past 15 years, I’ve not had to face a lot of the backlash others in my situation have had to face. I simply just disappeared from my home church congregation (which later split, and my parents were caught in the middle…typical coc stuff).

I converted in August 2009 to the RCC and it’s been 9 months and I still have not yet told my family. I understand the feelings you have and what you’re going through.

 

[activeCatholic]

Hi, I chose that title to be somewhat provocative to hopefully garner people who could reply to this thread. I converted from Protestantism more than 10 years ago and I am happy to be Catholic. However, having said that I do miss much of the social aspects of a Protestant church. There were programs and bible studies for every age group; there were many ways of connecting to different people in your church–I had lots of friends in church and we would call each other up and do things together. There would be family picnics and other outings the church would sponsor.

In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.

I have brought some of my brothers and sisters in to the Church, but we all are beginning to pine for the days when going to church was enjoyable.

It does really appear to me that the Catholic Church, as an institution, does not foster fellowship anywhere near as much as the Protestant churches do. Am I wrong?

And before you say to me, “Well then, you get something started at your church!”, I’m trying to make the point that as an institution the Catholic church does not foster fellowship. I don’t want to be one person trying to roll a rock up hill, I want to be part of a Church that encourages fellowship.

As I mentioned before, I helped bring others to the Catholic Church, but now I’ve got a dilemma. My two kids, ages 12 and 13 are really complaining about going to our ‘boring church’ when their Protestant friends do all these really fun activities their churches sponsor. And I have an older son who may be considering becoming Catholic, but he has 4 children ages 1-6. I wince at the prospect of telling him he can’t put his children in Sunday School while he and his wife go to mass, but instead he has to keep four children under control for an hour while having to listen to a boring sermon. These are not show stoppers, but they really detract from giving incentives to joining the Church.

Any thought are welcome. But does anyone else see this lack of fellowship problem?

I sometimes miss my Protestant days, I still am attracted to it.

 

[Lazarette]

Anneymay, even though fellowship is important, it’s not the reason I stay in the Church. The Church has not survived because of her members. The fact that the Church has survived 2000 years despite the situations you described is proof that it’s the one true Church.