Wishing to be Protestant again...

[cathdoki]

Hi, I chose that title to be somewhat provocative to hopefully garner people who could reply to this thread. I converted from Protestantism more than 10 years ago and I am happy to be Catholic. However, having said that I do miss much of the social aspects of a Protestant church. There were programs and bible studies for every age group; there were many ways of connecting to different people in your church–I had lots of friends in church and we would call each other up and do things together. There would be family picnics and other outings the church would sponsor.

In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.

I have brought some of my brothers and sisters in to the Church, but we all are beginning to pine for the days when going to church was enjoyable.

It does really appear to me that the Catholic Church, as an institution, does not foster fellowship anywhere near as much as the Protestant churches do. Am I wrong?

And before you say to me, “Well then, you get something started at your church!”, I’m trying to make the point that as an institution the Catholic church does not foster fellowship. I don’t want to be one person trying to roll a rock up hill, I want to be part of a Church that encourages fellowship.

As I mentioned before, I helped bring others to the Catholic Church, but now I’ve got a dilemma. My two kids, ages 12 and 13 are really complaining about going to our ‘boring church’ when their Protestant friends do all these really fun activities their churches sponsor. And I have an older son who may be considering becoming Catholic, but he has 4 children ages 1-6. I wince at the prospect of telling him he can’t put his children in Sunday School while he and his wife go to mass, but instead he has to keep four children under control for an hour while having to listen to a boring sermon. These are not show stoppers, but they really detract from giving incentives to joining the Church.

Any thought are welcome. But does anyone else see this lack of fellowship problem?

I think you’ve got to realize that the sole purpose for Catholics to go to Mass is for worshipping God. Fellowship is wonderful. I personally have fostered it between Catholics and non-Catholics. But, you’ve got to understand that Mass is not a social event. It is the un-bloody sacrifice of Christ as it lives on forever. There is no time as far as God is concerned. He is timeless. The sacrafice that Christ made was final, but lives on in time forever. As Catholics we participate in the un-bloody sacrafice. Think about it, it’s really incredible. We are there. And then we partake in the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ in the Eucharist. Can we ask for more?

God Bless

 

[c_martyr]

Any thought are welcome. But does anyone else see this lack of fellowship problem?

I know exactly what you are going through. I was catholic for nearly all my life, and then I read the New Testament and was converted to Christ. When I began to attend the preaching of the gospel at Protestant churches, I realized what a church is supposed to be like.

For many years I continued to visit the Catholic church for certain events that my family members were participating in and what not, and when I would go back I was reminded once again what a bore it was. “Peace be with you” is their best attempt at fellowship, but the handshakes are always awkward and many times cold. My bet is that 9 times out of 10 you don’t even know the person sitting next to you, and even if you were to look around at all the people, you wouldn’t be able to identify any of them by name.

That is just the way it goes, when the Spirit of God is not present in the ministry of the church. The gospel needs to be preached with passion and when this happens, Christ is exalted, and his people come to life. The Church is supposed to be alive, not dead. It is supposed to be awake, not asleep. It is supposed to be a congregation of family, not a room full of strangers, who will probably* never *get to know eachother.

My advice to you is to come back to Christ and the churches who love him and serve him with love, life and passion.

 

[VetA]

I know exactly what you are going through. I was catholic for nearly all my life, and then I read the New Testament and was converted to Christ. When I began to attend the preaching of the gospel at Protestant churches, I realized what a church is supposed to be like.

For many years I continued to visit the Catholic church for certain events that my family members were participating in and what not, and when I would go back I was reminded once again what a bore it was. “Peace be with you” is their best attempt at fellowship, but the handshakes are always awkward and many times cold. My bet is that 9 times out of 10 you don’t even know the person sitting next to you, and even if you were to look around at all the people, you wouldn’t be able to identify any of them by name.

That is just the way it goes, when the Spirit of God is not present in the ministry of the church. The gospel needs to be preached with passion and when this happens, Christ is exalted, and his people come to life. The Church is supposed to be alive, not dead. It is supposed to be awake, not asleep. It is supposed to be a congregation of family, not a room full of strangers, who will probably* never *get to know eachother.

My advice to you is to come back to Christ and the churches who love him and serve him with love, life and passion.

My advice to you would be to read the early church fathers and see how they conducted their worship and then maybe you can come back to the church

By the way the point of Mass is not people it is the worship of God, not hanging out with friends…

 

[cathdoki]

My advice to you would be to read the early church fathers and see how they conducted their worship and then maybe you can come back to the church

By the way the point of Mass is not people it is the worship of God, not hanging out with friends…

EXACTLY! See post 464

 

[Jerry_Parker]

C. Martyr,

**You wrote: ** *For many years I continued to visit the Catholic church for certain events that my family members were participating in and what not, and when I would go back I was reminded once again what a bore it was. “Peace be with you” is their best attempt at fellowship, but the handshakes are always awkward and many times cold. My bet is that 9 times out of 10 you don’t even know the person sitting next to you, and even if you were to look around at all the people, you wouldn’t be able to identify any of them by name.

That is just the way it goes, when the Spirit of God is not present in the ministry of the church. The gospel needs to be preached with passion and when this happens, Christ is exalted, and his people come to life. The Church is supposed to be alive, not dead.*​

I know of what you are writing, Martyr! I have mentioned the lacklustre preaching in most Catholic parishes several times in this C.A. forum. I know, as some other contributors do, that the lack of warm fellowship in Catholic churches really is a problem, not something to dismiss by noting that the Church does not exist primarily for fellowship and sociality, which is true, but that does not excuse the worshippers from being friendly with and helpful to each other.

As priests, the validity and supreme importance of the Holy Sacraments does not excuse their neglect of study, writing, and delivery of good and wholesome doctrinal and expository sermons. Unfortunately, Catholic seminaries in recent decades have lowered their academic standards; priests do not get the formation in Bible study, in languages (Greek, Latin, Hebrew) that would enable them to grapple with the Scriptures and theologians of the Church in the kind of depth and intimacy of the thought of the biblical prophets, evangelists, and apostles, and of the masterly theologians of the past, that is needed to do more than merely to dash off and preach superficial (or, as bad or more revolting, sentimental) homilies of short duration and shallow content.

There is also far too much emphasis in the seminaries, and in parish life and outreach, on resort to the secular domains of sociology and psychology, instead of on the study and application of “Law and Gospel” (as Lutherans or Presbyterians would put it), of “Nature and Grace” (as Catholics tend to express the same matter), according to what is proclaimed and taught in the Holy Scriptures (which are inspired and devoid of error, unlike the tenuous precepts of the social scienes and pseudo-sciences). The failure to follow spiritual priorities, rather than the worldly agenda of the “social sciences” and of politics, is distressing to lay folk, who, in many cases, have a better and more rigourous general and specialised education and critically more discerning minds than the clergy have, albeit in other domains of enquiry than those which priests are supposed to have studied and the seminaries to have taught. Thank God that at last a reform of the seminaries is underway!

Anyhow, the solution is not to turn to the Protestant denominations and the fundamentalist and neo-evangelical sects, which are not the Church, lacking fully what Catholics call “the marks of the Church”. For now, as the Catholic Church under Pope Benedict XVI tries to reform itself, admittedly a long process, Catholics must be aware, be discerning, be patient, and turn to the best Catholic parishes available to them, rather than to suffer the deficiencies of their current ones (“voting with their feet”). This is not always an option in rural areas, but at least the lay Catholic (and, of course, the Holy Spirit Himself) can nurture his own devotional life, study Scripture, and read good and doctrinally orthodox literature, and, at church, try to concentrate on what is indisputably true and valid, rather than to fret about failings of his parish’s life.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[LindaSK]

There is nothing lacking in the Catholic Church. There is something lacking in it’s members to fail to step up to the universal call to holiness. The church if full of sinners and it takes a saint to stand up to their resistence. We live in a culture of death and the members of the Lord’s Church have been gravely affected by the same culture. It’s more of a culture problem than anything else, IMHO.

 

[Lost_Again]

Greetings!

As someone who returned to the RCC after a 12 year absence (six of them as a Baptist) I would have to agree wholeheartedly. I’ve been back in the church now about three months and am feeling the EXACT same way you do! Everyone acts like you have leprosy when you give each other the sign of peace and Lord forbid you should hug someone!!!

I have had the same conversation with the religious Ed instructor, and one of the priests.
I asked them why is the church so cold? I get various answers all of them sounding like excuses. It seems as if everyone wants to be an island to themselves all with one intent… to get through the mass as quickly as possible and get the heck out the door. I see it as so disrespectful that some of the people are beating the priest to door during the exit procession.

Most of all what I miss is that socializing before and after church… I miss sharing the scriptures with people my own age. (I’m 55). I know, I know… you’re not supposed to be in church to socialize!! My answer to that is SAYS WHO?? Isn’t “church” supposed to be a gathering of God’s people? What do people of similar belief groups do? They socialize!

What was really surprising was that even after a 12 year absence, I had no problem remembering the responses during mass and even the creed. How scary is that???
I am now back where I was 12 years ago… I’m going through the motions, mumbling the responses in mass like everyone else.

No my friend… you are not alone… We are getting two new young priests soon and I am hoping they will be able to get rid of this pre-Vatican II mentality.

Some will find my response disrespectful… so let me say this… I came back to the church because I missed the solemnity of the CC. I missed being a part of God’s true church. Having said that is there any doctrine anywhere in the RCC that says you can’t be friendly???

Pax

 

[cathdoki]

Greetings!

As someone who returned to the RCC after a 12 year absence (six of them as a Baptist) I would have to agree wholeheartedly. I’ve been back in the church now about three months and am feeling the EXACT same way you do! Everyone acts like you have leprosy when you give each other the sign of peace and Lord forbid you should hug someone!!!

I have had the same conversation with the religious Ed instructor, and one of the priests.
I asked them why is the church so cold? I get various answers all of them sounding like excuses. It seems as if everyone wants to be an island to themselves all with one intent… to get through the mass as quickly as possible and get the heck out the door. I see it as so disrespectful that some of the people are beating the priest to door during the exit procession.

Most of all what I miss is that socializing before and after church… I miss sharing the scriptures with people my own age. (I’m 55). I know, I know… you’re not supposed to be in church to socialize!! My answer to that is SAYS WHO?? Isn’t “church” supposed to be a gathering of God’s people? What do people of similar belief groups do? They socialize!

What was really surprising was that even after a 12 year absence, I had no problem remembering the responses during mass and even the creed. How scary is that???
I am now back where I was 12 years ago… I’m going through the motions, mumbling the responses in mass like everyone else.

No my friend… you are not alone… We are getting two new young priests soon and I am hoping they will be able to get rid of this pre-Vatican II mentality.

Some will find my response disrespectful… so let me say this… I came back to the church because I missed the solemnity of the CC. I missed being a part of God’s true church. Having said that is there any doctrine anywhere in the RCC that says you can’t be friendly???

Pax

My friend, there is one reason to attend Mass. To worship God. Nothing else.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Lost Again,

**You wrote: ** *As someone who returned to the RCC after a 12 year absence (six of them as a Baptist) I would have to agree wholeheartedly. I’ve been back in the church now about three months and am feeling the EXACT same way you do! Everyone acts like you have leprosy when you give each other the sign of peace and Lord forbid you should hug someone!!!

I have had the same conversation with the religious Ed instructor, and with one of the priests.

I asked them “Why is the church so cold?” I get various answers all of them sounding like excuses. It seems as if everyone wants to be an island to themselves all with one intent – to get through the mass as quickly as possible and get the heck out the door. I see it as so disrespectful that some of the people are beating the priest to door during the exit procession.

Most of all what I miss is that socializing before and after church—. I miss sharing the Scriptures with people my own age. (I’m 55). I know, I know – [that] you’re not supposed to be in church to socialize!! My answer to that is SAYS WHO?? Isn’t “church” supposed to be a gathering of God’s people? What do people of similar belief groups do? They socialize!

What was really surprising was that even after a 12 year absence, I had no problem remembering the responses during mass and even the creed. How scary is that???
I am now back where I was 12 years ago—. I’m going through the motions, mumbling the responses in mass like everyone else.

No my friend… you are not alone—. We are getting two new young priests soon and I am hoping they will be able to get rid of this pre-Vatican II mentality.

Some will find my response disrespectful – so let me say this – I came back to the church because I missed the solemnity of the C[atholic] C[hurch]. I missed being a part of God’s true Church. Having said that is there any doctrine anywhere in the R[oman] C[atholic] C[hurch] that says you can’t be friendly???*​

You are right, Lostie, about everything that you say, except when you state that this is due to “this pre-Vatican II mentality”. Well, to that part I say “no way, José!” This is what the post-Vat-2 (especially post-*Novus Ordo *of 1970) priests would have you to believe. Don’t take their self-exculpating word for it. You are too young, even at 55 (I am 66) to remember well what it was like before Vatican II. For one thing, the Church was alive, lively, and growing. People felt involved in the Mass, according to the 1962 Latin Missale Romanum and, when it was observed properly, the 1965 Latin with vernacular Missale Romanum also. Worship back then was majestic and sublime; there was a sense above all of God’s presence and of God communicating to men and women in God’s congregation, not just of the priest to “his own” personal audience, which he faces, that was lost in the N.O.

Back then, the parishes still held all of their properties, including parish halls and presbyteries, and they were not so strapped for cash that they had to rent their basements. There was room for spaces intended for socialising and parish life.

Vocations to the priesthood were numerous; just compare the statistics from the early 1960s with the demoralisingly disastrous ones since then.

The sex scandals of recent decades were rare, then, and the seminaries attempted to screen out homosexual or other sexually inappropriate candidates (rather than to coddle them), preventing (or, rather more accurately, minimising) problems before they arose. Now, I try my best to avoid clergy, since I distrust most of them (for all kinds of reasons); if I linger after Mass, it is to talk with other lay people, not with the priest, but, as you note, almost everybody is too eager to scamper away quickly than to linger awhile!

Still, Lostie, you contributed a fine message. May it be a “wake-up call” for others!

 

[cathdoki]

:clapping:

Lost Again,

**You wrote: ** *As someone who returned to the RCC after a 12 year absence (six of them as a Baptist) I would have to agree wholeheartedly. I’ve been back in the church now about three months and am feeling the EXACT same way you do! Everyone acts like you have leprosy when you give each other the sign of peace and Lord forbid you should hug someone!!!

I have had the same conversation with the religious Ed instructor, and with one of the priests.

I asked them “Why is the church so cold?” I get various answers all of them sounding like excuses. It seems as if everyone wants to be an island to themselves all with one intent – to get through the mass as quickly as possible and get the heck out the door. I see it as so disrespectful that some of the people are beating the priest to door during the exit procession.

Most of all what I miss is that socializing before and after church—. I miss sharing the Scriptures with people my own age. (I’m 55). I know, I know – [that] you’re not supposed to be in church to socialize!! My answer to that is SAYS WHO?? Isn’t “church” supposed to be a gathering of God’s people? What do people of similar belief groups do? They socialize!

What was really surprising was that even after a 12 year absence, I had no problem remembering the responses during mass and even the creed. How scary is that???
I am now back where I was 12 years ago—. I’m going through the motions, mumbling the responses in mass like everyone else.

No my friend… you are not alone—. We are getting two new young priests soon and I am hoping they will be able to get rid of this pre-Vatican II mentality.

Some will find my response disrespectful – so let me say this – I came back to the church because I missed the solemnity of the C[atholic] C[hurch]. I missed being a part of God’s true Church. Having said that is there any doctrine anywhere in the R[oman] C[atholic] C[hurch] that says you can’t be friendly???*​

You are right, Lostie, about everything that you say, except when you state that this is due to “this pre-Vatican II mentality”. Well, to that part I say “no way, José!” This is what the post-Vat-2 (especially post-*Novus Ordo *of 1970) priests would have you to believe. Don’t take their self-exculpating word for it. You are too young, even at 55 (I am 66) to remember well what it was like before Vatican II. For one thing, the Church was alive, lively, and growing. People felt involved in the Mass, according to the 1962 Latin Missale Romanum and, when it was observed properly, the 1965 Latin with vernacular Missale Romanum also. Worship back then was majestic and sublime; there was a sense above all of God’s presence and of God communicating to men and women in God’s congregation, not just of the priest to “his own” personal audience, which he faces, that was lost in the N.O.

Back then, the parishes still held all of their properties, including parish halls and presbyteries, and they were not so strapped for cash that they had to rent their basements. There was room for spaces intended for socialising and parish life.

Vocations to the priesthood were numerous; just compare the statistics from the early 1960s with the demoralisingly disastrous ones since then.

The sex scandals of recent decades were rare, then, and the seminaries attempted to screen out homosexual or other sexually inappropriate candidates (rather than to coddle them), preventing (or, rather more accurately, minimising) problems before they arose. Now, I try my best to avoid clergy, since I distrust most of them (for all kinds of reasons); if I linger after Mass, it is to talk with other lay people, not with the priest, but, as you note, almost everybody is too eager to scamper away quickly than to linger awhile!

Still, Lostie, you contributed a fine message. May it be a “wake-up call” for others!

:clapping:

 

[Angel7]

How about going To Mass. AND socializing with your old friends?

Being a Catholic doesn’t mean not having friends of other religions or Christian denominations.

I guess each Parish has its own personality.

As long as you follow what The Church says, and don’t fall into wrong teachings that others may talk about, I don’t think it would be wrong to socialize.
If they are having a fundraiser, make sure the money isn’t going to anything opposed by The Church, and join in.

I don’t want to make you feel guilty, but I would rather have Jesus, then friends.
But humans are social beings, we need to socialize, for our own social health.
Not talking to ANYONE for a LONG time is unhealthy. So yes, socializing is important.

Do what is right, always.

May The Lord Our God Bless You All!

 

[cathdoki]

How about going To Mass. AND socializing with your old friends?

Being a Catholic doesn’t mean not having friends of other religions or Christian denominations.

I guess each Parish has its own personality.

As long as you follow what The Church says, and don’t fall into wrong teachings that others may talk about, I don’t think it would be wrong to socialize.
If they are having a fundraiser, make sure the money isn’t going to anything opposed by The Church, and join in.

I don’t want to make you feel guilty, but I would rather have Jesus, then friends.
But humans are social beings, we need to socialize, for our own social health.
Not talking to ANYONE for a LONG time is unhealthy. So yes, socializing is important.

Do what is right, always.

May The Lord Our God Bless You All!

I don’t disagree at all, but the intent of going to Mass is the worship of God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I agree that socializing is great with our friends, but again, that is not the reason for praying at Mass.

I do think we agree.

 

[Angel7]

Bataar,

**You wrote: ** I have a Protestant friend who’s church does a lot of activities outside of their Sunday service. I even attend their monthly board game nights. They have different Bible study groups for different people. They have a Bible study group for singles designed to foster good, Christian relationships as well as learn the Bible. And the cool thing is, it’s dedicated to singles. When my friend got married, they told him he’d have to join a different study group.​

I can imagine how tempting it could be to participate in a Bible study group or in certain social activities of a non-Catholic local congregation. However, unless it be one of a denomination that is as close to Catholicism in doctrine and practice as Holy Orthodoxy, “high church” Lutheran, or “Anglo-Catholic” Anglican/Episcopalian are, it would seem to me that the divergences from Catholic teaching and intermittent attacks on the Catholic Church and on its teaching could be too frequent and potentially damaging to make such participation any kind of good idea.

The problem is that so many Catholic parishes offer just about nothing in the way of study groups or even socialising, especially if there is no active Knights of Columbus chapter as part of it. There used to be Newman Clubs all over the place, but few such extra-parish organisations are active anymore; the laxity that set in after 1970, with the lackluster Novus Ordo liturgy and the decline in preaching have reduced parishes in many places and in entire dioceses to mere shadows of what they once were. There is need for a real Catholic revival, not just some imaginary one on the part of self-deluded clergy who have forgotten (or never knew) the glory of Catholic intellectual and social life before Vatican II cast a pall on all of that.

Pax, Jerry Parker

Are Catholic Charismatic Renewal Parishes in line with The Church?
I am interested in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, I would like to know more about it, but this isn’t the thread for that.

 

[c_martyr]

My advice to you would be to read the early church fathers and see how they conducted their worship and then maybe you can come back to the church

I do read the early church fathers, thank you very much.

Only, I do not pour into their terms modern Roman Catholic teaching, rather, I allow them to define their own terms, and I labor to understand the historical sense in which those terms were being used. But when Catholics read the fathers all they see is that they used similar terms as they themselves do, and so they automatically think that the fathers beleived what the modern Roman Catholic Church believes. The fact is they didn’t.

A great source for my Catholic opponents: see the trilogy: **Holy Scripture, The Ground And Pillar Of Our Faith, ** by King and Webster. I promise that you will be shocked at the clarity you will get on the writings of the fathers, and you will be suprised at the fact that sola Scriptura was not a Protestant invention, as your catholic apologists keep telling you.

It is high time Catholics take a fair look at the issues between us, unless of course they don’t care about truth, but simply care about defending their own position.

 

[ufamtobie]

Hi, I chose that title to be somewhat provocative to hopefully garner people who could reply to this thread. I converted from Protestantism more than 10 years ago and I am happy to be Catholic. However, having said that I do miss much of the social aspects of a Protestant church. There were programs and bible studies for every age group; there were many ways of connecting to different people in your church–I had lots of friends in church and we would call each other up and do things together. There would be family picnics and other outings the church would sponsor.

Martyr, Yes, Satan is working on you hard he hates the fact that you left the Protestant church, he want to replace socialism again in your heart and your families heart, which is not bad thing, but when you place socialism over the Eucharist then it is a Grave Sin.

When you die you take no friends with you, only Jesus or do you then prefer socialism over Jesus?

In my 10 years of being Catholic my knowledge of truth has increased but at the cost of fellowship. I’ve been around 4 different Catholic churches in 10 years and all of them seem to be not much more than ‘Eucharist factories’ where you shuffle the people in, give them a boring homily, the Eucharist and shuffle them out until next week when you can do it again. The earliest youth group starts at high school.

No! Again, fellowship starts at home with a good upbringing then you can find fellowship anywhere. Or maybe it is your fault that no one wants to fellowship with you, I could see this being a truth, Why? because of your bad attitude with the Catholic Church, I would never fellowship with you, because from what you have to say in this thread, puts all Faithful Catholics down and then some. Amen

Martyr, “You did say any thoughts welcomed”.

I will pray for you to Love the Eucharist more than fellowship, because it is to your own benefit for both body and soul

Ufamtobie

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Angel 17,

**You wrote: ** *Are Catholic Charismatic Renewal Parishes in line with The Church?

I am interested in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, I would like to know more about it, but this isn’t the thread for that. *​

You posed this question in a posting where you quote one of my own posts. I really am not the one to advise you on this matter, since I have only had limited contact with Catholic Charismatics, as opposed to Anglican ones. (To be confessionally Lutheran and also Charismatic really is unconscionable; Lutheranism, unlike laxer Anglicanism, is resolutely opposed to Pentecostalism of any kind.)

My impression, limited as it is on the Charistmatics who remain Catholic is that to the extent that they are more Catholic than they are Charistmatic, they are not overly dangerous. To the extent to which they are more Charistmatic than they are Catholic, some serious problems set in! Anyway, I’ll leave it to others to advise you better than I really feel able to do honestly. (Personally, I refuse quite categorically to have anything soever to do with Charismaticism, which I regard as erosive of the faith and too condusive to subjectivity and sentimental gush.) Mother Angelica managed to be Charismatic and still very Catholic indeed, so there is hope, but, then, she was not divisive or excessively obsessed with the Charismatic movement, as some are, Catholic, Anglican, or otherwise!

Pax, Jerry

 

[VetA]

Greetings!

As someone who returned to the RCC after a 12 year absence (six of them as a Baptist) I would have to agree wholeheartedly. I’ve been back in the church now about three months and am feeling the EXACT same way you do! Everyone acts like you have leprosy when you give each other the sign of peace and Lord forbid you should hug someone!!!

I have had the same conversation with the religious Ed instructor, and one of the priests.
I asked them why is the church so cold? I get various answers all of them sounding like excuses. It seems as if everyone wants to be an island to themselves all with one intent… to get through the mass as quickly as possible and get the heck out the door. I see it as so disrespectful that some of the people are beating the priest to door during the exit procession.

Most of all what I miss is that socializing before and after church… I miss sharing the scriptures with people my own age. (I’m 55). I know, I know… you’re not supposed to be in church to socialize!! My answer to that is SAYS WHO?? Isn’t “church” supposed to be a gathering of God’s people? What do people of similar belief groups do? They socialize!

What was really surprising was that even after a 12 year absence, I had no problem remembering the responses during mass and even the creed. How scary is that???
I am now back where I was 12 years ago… I’m going through the motions, mumbling the responses in mass like everyone else.

No my friend… you are not alone… We are getting two new young priests soon and I am hoping they will be able to get rid of this pre-Vatican II mentality.

Some will find my response disrespectful… so let me say this… I came back to the church because I missed the solemnity of the CC. I missed being a part of God’s true church. Having said that is there any doctrine anywhere in the RCC that says you can’t be friendly???

Pax

i have no problem with socializing and such, but not in the church, i dont want to talk to the people around me when a few feet away is the Body of Christ in the tabernacle. i want to talk to God, i want to hear what God is trying to say to me through meditation. i cant do that when there are over 9000 people around me talking about last nights baseball game or how good the pot roast was or relation ship issues. I would say it is good to talk aand hang out and shoot the breeze with your fellow Church-goer, but dont do it in the church building. Why can it not be good enough for people to talk in the parish hall or (if your parish has a school attached) the school gym. dont talk about random stuff in front of the very God we worship (in the form of the Body of Christ). go somewhere else and talk and socialize.

 

[distracted]

Distracted,

**You wrote: ** *Hello. I couldn’t make out where you live (??).

Anyhow — I love what you say here. *** hate the Vatican II’s changes.

My position is: “If it aint broke, don’t fix it.” (for cyring out loud—)

If people left the Catholic Church cuz of Vatican II changes, where did they go? it’s not like they’re going to find anything comparable, [is it]???​

Ah, music to my pre-Vat-2 ears! No, the aftermath of Vatican II is mostly disastrous, despite what the clergy, self-deluded in that matter, may say. If one is old enough to remember those years of vibrant Catholic life (socially, intellectually, liturgically, and in other ways) one has to weep for what became of it all, especially after the implementation of the Novus Ordo liturgy (N.O.). It was the 1962 and 1965 Missals (editions of the Missale Romanum) which were the real Vatican II liturgical standards. The 1970 N.O. came later and was not a product of Vatican II but rather of the post-conciliar liturgical cabal around Pope Paul VI.

I don’t think the Catholics who gave up on the Church after Vatican II, especially after 1970, necessarily left for other ecclesiastical entities. Many of them just “voted with their feet” and stopped practising the Christian faith in active worship anywhere else. Some did go to the Orthodox Church, others to Protestantism, and many to the sects (Baptists, Pentecostals, et alia), but there hasn’t been, I don’t think, a clear and consistent pattern about all of this, other than disgust with what the Church and its worship, especially in the chaos that prevailed so long, had become, not to mention the awful clergy sex scandals of recent decades. I personally have not had much confidence in the clergy (and I try to steer clear of personal contact with them) since all of that began to occur.

Maybe things are changing (and there is a lot of damage to be undone), especially as first Pope John Paul II and then, rather more decisively and fairly, Benedict XVI have clamped down on chaos and decline in the Church and liturgy and even are promoting the 1962 Latin liturgy again! I hope that good developments really are afoot—.

And, oh, before I forget that question, I live in Québec, in the lovely and unspoiled (referring to Nature, not to clerics) Abitibi region.

Pax, Jerry Parker

how do you feel about Pope B saying that being in adoration is not the same as having a conversation with God…?

weird… .last time i looked Jesus IS God…

seems he is saying the Real Presence isn’t real…

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Distracted,

**You wrote: ** * How do you feel about Pope B[enedict] saying that being in adoration is not the same as having a conversation with God…?

weird… .last time i looked Jesus IS God…

seems he is saying the Real Presence isn’t real—.*​

Well, Jesus is God and He is present, body, soul, divinity, in the Holy Eucharist and in the consecrated elements of bread and wine, which become Him, so I don’t see the problem. The only difficulty, one of acculturation to Roman Catholic devotionalism, is from the Lutheran way of insisting that the consecrated Elements are to be taken, eaten, and drunk, rather than exposed, paraded, and “gawked at”. (That is not meant to demean the reality of the Real Presence, just to deal with how properly to honour God.)

I never felt too keen, either, on Benediction of the Blessèd Sacrament and that kind of thing (although I love the Corpus Christi and the triumphal march of the Holy Body of Jesus through the streets of a city), which somehow strikes me as a bit unseemly and exaggerated, but you really do not have to be overly concerned about this. Devotions are optional; go with the ones which best nourish your spiritual life. Me, I love litanies and novenas, especially when they are chanted! God bless you!

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[rinnie]

Are Catholic Charismatic Renewal Parishes in line with The Church?
I am interested in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, I would like to know more about it, but this isn’t the thread for that.

Yes they are. The Renewal was started ten years ago by Pope John Paul II that should tell it all