Wishing to be Protestant again...

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crazzeto said:
There’s nothing wrong with fellowship, unless of course one seriously was entertaining forsaking the true faith for it. In and of it’s self it’s a fantastic good however, something we should be doing as Christians.
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👍

Yes. Exactly. This:
unless one seriously was entertaining forsaking the true faith for it
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is the part of the OP that was concerning me. That it would even be considered as a reason NOT to join a church one believed to be True is indicative of much graver issues with priorities, IMNSHO.
 
crazzeto said:
Hrm… As a cradle catholic I have to say that I don’t find joining hands particularly offensive (saying grace), though I will admit joining hands in prayer isn’t something Catholics typically do. There’s nothing wrong with fellowship, unless of course one seriously was entertaining forsaking the true faith for it. In and of it’s self it’s a fantastic good however, something we should be doing as Christians.
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And…

As a “Cradle” Catholic therein lies the problem…

Most “Cradlers” have never been outside of the church except for an ocassional Protestant wedding or funeral. Thats why these practices seem as alien to you as Catholic practices seem to many Protestants. Having been on both sides of the fence I’m not going to lie… I truly miss the loving, caring, CHRISTIAN practices of my old church.

I’ve mentioned in several posts on this topic that the people in my present Catholic church act like you have leprosy if you shake their hands for more than half a second and God forbid if you hug them. Hang around after church and talk??? Are you kidding why would I want to do that???
These were all “NORMAL” practices in my former church. All I’m saying is that you “Cradle” Catholics need to lighten up a little… you might even like it.

As for holding hands in public and praying before meals what’s the problem with that? I always felt that it showed that I was unafraid to show the WORLD that I was a Christian!

There is nothing un-Christian about expressing love for one another… isn’t that what Christ said to do?

Make no mistake though… I came back because I love the solemnity and that feeling of being closer to Christ that I feel when I am in church/mass. Never felt that in my old Protestant church…

And yes I may be bitching… I look at being back in the RCC as like being in the Army… if you ain’t bitchin you ain’t happy!!!

and I’m HAPPY!
 
Lost Again,

I’m not sure whether you fully understood my posting… I wasn’t denying the importance of fellowshiping one little bit. I was however, ensureing that we all know what order our priorities lie in. Christ said, if you love your mother and father more than me, you’re not worth of me, I think that should give us a pretty clear idea of where our priorites should be.

Certainly I would submit, not just based upon being a Cradle Catholic, but as one who seriously questioned and studied, the Catholic Church is the truth faith. While fellowshiping is very very important, it can never be more important than worshiping in the spirit of the true doctrine. As the Apostles says:
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned and avoid them.
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Right worship is not unimportant, but if you’re not happy about the current state of fellowshiping oppertunities in your parish then again I exhort you to talk with your pastor. A lack of fellowshiping is a problem, which should be addressed. My piont is, it shouldn’t be addressed by skipping mass and going to the Baptist Church down the street.
 
Lost Again,

**You wrote: ** Most “Cradlers” have never been outside of the church except for an ocassional Protestant wedding or funeral. Thats why these practices seem as alien to you as Catholic practices seem to many Protestants. Having been on both sides of the fence I’m not going to lie… I truly miss the loving, caring, CHRISTIAN practices of my old church.​

Well, Lost Again, what you say comparing Catholic tendency to impersonality and “Protestant” (i.e. sectarian, I think you mean) glad-handedness and friemdliness is not true across the board. Traditionalist Presbyterians, Lutherans, and Anglicans, whose worship tends to be more formal and august, are not too fond of too much comraderie of this kind, especially within the church building.

Pax, Jerry Parker
 
crazzeto said:
Lost Again,

I’m not sure whether you fully understood my posting… /QUOTE]

Blah ba blah ba blah blah blah blah…
  1. Why is it everyone thinks I don’t understand??
I UNDERSTAND!!!
  1. When you post stuff like that you just make my point for me…
LIGHTEN UP!!!

I am merely trying to point out that its “stiff” Catholics like that, that turn me off!

and for the umpteenth time I AM WORKING IN MY PARISH to try and make things different…

Geez… do any of you REALLY read what I post? Or all you interested in doing is whipping a little scripture my way? If you wanna get into a scripture slinging contest

BRING IT!

Trust me I’ve learned from the best!!

If anything bring a sense of humour… something sorely lacking around here! 😃

Now… I’m gonna take my ball and go home! SO THERE!
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Lost Again,

**I had written already: ** *Well, Lost Again, what you say comparing Catholic tendency to impersonality and “Protestant” (i.e. sectarian, I think you mean) glad-handedness and friemdliness is not true across the board. Traditionalist Presbyterians, Lutherans, and Anglicans, whose worship tends to be more formal and august, are not too fond of too much comraderie of this kind, especially within the church building. *​

Lutherans, for example, have a wonderful social cohesiveness, often based to a large (but not exclusive) extent on the ethnic origins of congregations. I’ll never forget the marvellous Lutheran church suppers, after the Eucharist, the Common Morning Service, or Matins, when all and sundry brought dishes of delectable food and gloried in each other’s company. I enjoyed this in German and Slovak Lutheran congregations of which I was at the time member, even though I am mostly Anglo-Scando-Celtic in ethnic origins. Keeping socialising and church attendance in separate categories this way led to good, devout worship and also to good companionship, without mingling the two together to their mutual detriment.

Italian, Polish, German, and other ethnic Catholic and Orthodox congregations often tended to this pattern, too. It’s a good one for Catholics and other Christians alike, though the ethnic component of all this may alter or fade as congregations change.

Pax, Jerry Parker
 
If you live in a larger town or city, chances are there are a wide variety of parish “flavors,” with varying emphasis and intensity of fellowship. It seems less rigid nowadays than when I was growing up, where you had to be a member of the parish in which you geographically lived. I don’t think there’s any requirement that says you can’t join a parish across town if it’s more to your tastes.

Me? I like to be able to sneak into church, worship, and sneak back out again. Dumb, I know. But my personality is one of being somewhat of a loner; my mother always said I would have made a good hermit! I enjoy spending private time in adoration of the Lord. Anyways, even though we worship as a group of people at Mass, aren’t we really alone in communion with Him?

Bible study, when I went to it a couple of times, made not all that much sense to me, and I felt intimidated being in a small group and having to offer commentary. I’m not great at small talk, and the social events can be a little intimidating as well. Besides, I’m a lousy cook, and the thought of having to make something edible to bring to one of those parish potluck dinners is truly appalling to me. But not as appalling as it would be to my fellow parishoners if they had to sample something I made, just to be polite!
 
Odile,

**You wrote: ** Me? I like to be able to sneak into church, worship, and sneak back out again. Dumb, I know. But my personality is one of being somewhat of a loner; my mother always said I would have made a good hermit! I enjoy spending private time in adoration of the Lord.​

Yeah, the same, to some degree, goes for me, too! I don’t think that I am quite so much the “hermit” as you are, but I appreciate some solitude at church. After the Mass I usually try to get away quickly, too, not because I am in a rush to get home or to some diversion, but because I really do not care much for the company of priests (or bishops, either). To avoid them I usually go out by a side door. Priests, for me, are there for the all of those seven Catholic sacraments which they (rather than solely a bishop) are authorised to administer, and for preaching, not for personal company or friendship. Besides, they usually have plenty of other friends already. It is nice, though, to hobnob with other parishioners, if one can do so without clergy intruding; with other laity I can enjoy the fellowship.

These are matters of personal disposition and temperament, so what we say should not give scandal to anyone. (At least, I sure hope to avoid doing so.)

Pax, Jerry Parker
 
Lost_Again said:
crazzeto;6916396:
Lost Again,

I’m not sure whether you fully understood my posting… /QUOTE]

Blah ba blah ba blah blah blah blah…
  1. Why is it everyone thinks I don’t understand??
I UNDERSTAND!!!
  1. When you post stuff like that you just make my point for me…
LIGHTEN UP!!!

I am merely trying to point out that its “stiff” Catholics like that, that turn me off!

and for the umpteenth time I AM WORKING IN MY PARISH to try and make things different…

Geez… do any of you REALLY read what I post? Or all you interested in doing is whipping a little scripture my way? If you wanna get into a scripture slinging contest

BRING IT!

Trust me I’ve learned from the best!!

If anything bring a sense of humour… something sorely lacking around here! 😃

Now… I’m gonna take my ball and go home! SO THERE!
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I do “get it,” so don’t despair. I came from conservative Lutheran background, then to non-denominational, and both had very warm fellowship, dinners, outreaches, bake sales, kids’ fellowship, you name it. NO, it does NOT replace the worship, and I don’t think that’s what he ever meant to say…as has been said over and over by him.

I am a convert and I go also to my H’s church, who is not Catholic. There’s all sorts of opportunities, that do NOT replace the worship for them. I LOVE the Catholic Church, and go as often as possible…but I experience the same thing. People dart in and dart out. There’s a coffee fellowship 2x/month…attended by maybe 20 people, out of a church that holds 500 people. Other tries for fellowship (probably started by converts) have failed over and over.

I don’t think we’re making this up. Again, as the OP says, lighten up here and admit that maybe in some Catholic Churches there is a need that goes unmet…and it doesn’t mean that the people are trying to replace anything.
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In my church community, we’re blessed to have myriads of social opportunities. We have book clubs, men’s club, women’s groups, greeters, and yes–even Sunday School. In fact, it has been the youth group that has been responsible for my own continual conversion. Truthfully, however, it is less about the groups than it is about the people involved. I thank God just about every day for sending us our wonderful youth minister. She has not only been a rock in my life, but has been the primary mover behind the wonderful youth programs for my church. This past year, we even started one for junior high. Maybe God has someone like her in store for your parish…or,maybe, that someone is you! Clearly, as you’ve already been responsible for bringing people into the church, such a role would not be a stretch. At the least, you could help get the ball rolling to find such a person.

I also realize, however, that it is more difficult in some areas, for various reasons. If so, start small–make your own BBQs. And of course, as you alluded to in saying that these weren’t dealbreakers, you can recognize the many deeper aspects of Catholicism as well. These Truths of our faith are part of what gives it beauty–and if it means you don’t get Sunday school as a tradeoff? Well, it may be hard, but bring small toys for the little ones, and gradually teach your kids to love the mass. It is, after all, the height of our shared faith. Best of luck, and may God bless you.
 
I’m Catholic , born Catholic, and I read this post and I feel so bad , I don’t come here often, but I often why other Christians don’t like Catholics , well I have a feeling it may be because some of us are so self-righteous,

personally I do not believe the only way to heaven is via the Catholic Church.

I have never been to a different church but know a lot of good people who are not Catholic and some real good people who don’t go to church or belong to a religion.

I also know Catholics, regular church goers, and well I’ll say no more.

I love the Catholic Mass, the quietness, the prayers, but not how they view non Catholics, and oh I can’t receive communion since I got married by a justice of the peace, never mind that we’ve been married for 24 years and have been faithful, I feel bad for people who fall in love with someone not Catholic,

you know I think if Jesus was alive today (thank goodness he gave his life up for us) he’d be preaching in a field, and then he would raise his arms and say repent of your sins, and pass around bread and tell everyone to eat.:):):)🙂

like my nephew who was an alter boy and then became Methodist, can he not go to heaven now?
 
Luvtosew,

*You wrote: *** I’m Catholic , born Catholic, and I read this post and I feel so bad , I don’t come here often, but I often why other Christians don’t like Catholics , well I have a feeling it may be because some of us are so self-righteous​

Christ is our Righteousness (cf. 1 Cor. 1:30 et passim.). Those who think that they stand in God’s favour by their own self-righteousness really are badly deluded!

To be frank, I don’t think that even the Church in these times has any reason to boast. We are living through one of the low ebbs that besets the Catholic Church now and then in its history. So, not only we, but the Church itself, has little of which to boast. To my mind, the 1970 Novus Ordo (N.O.) is an indicator of how low the Church has sunk. The Catholic Church has the fulness of all Holy Tradition, beauty, sacred rites, and splendid liturgy, and what did she (i.e. the Church) do in 1970, capping all the confusion and loss that already had built up to then in the wake of the Second Vatican Council? She chucked very much of it aside! Younger Catholics who know only the N.O. have no idea of how lovely, exalted, and splendid the Mass was in the past! We must commune and adore our Lord in the Holy Sacrament; the Real Presence still prevails, over all else, regarding the Mass that may be bothering us.

So, we just have to traipse along through this period. There is hope that the undesirable innovations of Vat.-II will be rolled back and Christ’s Holy Catholic Church will be able to show to the world, once again, just how great she is. Until then, we must comfort ourselves that we have the Mass and the other sacraments, even if the rites embodying them, and the music setting their words, since 1970 have been levelled so distressfully. We must “hang in” there and support and pray for “the reform of the Reform” that Pope Benedict XVI is trying to carry out.

The Church is, indeed, the Church in a way that no Protestant or sectarian group possibly can be. However, it is not surprising that so many within and outside the Catholic Church feel no attraction to her. God’s grace embraces them, however, if they are sincere in the Truth (and not in something else than the Truth!) and love our Lord. Those who believe the teachings of the Creeds are saved, the same way any Catholic also is saved, by grave, by God’s election, and in mercy.

Hang in there, Sew!

Pax, Jerry Parker
 
I felt that way about my parish, until I asked myself: “do I really want to spend more time with these people who hiss at when you sit in their pew?”. And the answer is NO! If they are going to act snobby, their loss. I look outside of my parish for social activities, which are a lof more fun. The adult women in my parish are like the popular crowd in “Mean Girls”.
 
Country Singer,

**You wrote: ** I am a Catholic woman who loves “Sex and the City”, shooting ranges, rugby, kickboxing, cheesy pop music, Lemon Drops, Monty Python, and country music. I am SO not your average Catholic. I am a sinner, but aren’t we all?​

Country Singer! Love the name; I love that music! (👍 Yee-haw!) You might get a kick out of a vintage Québec pop song, “Catholic Cowboy” :eek: by our ever-daring Plume Latraverse! It was a satire, but of something very real and quite prevalent. We even have country-western music Masses (in French), but as much as I enjoy country music (among other kinds) I prefer Latin Gregorian chant at Mass (not a common option, alas!).

Actually, an huge proportion of French-speaking Catholics here in Québec love “musique ouesterne” (“Western music”, i.e. country songs in French) and/or “musique country” (American and Canadian English-language country music), so, at least in the True North Strong and Free" side of the border that separates the U.S. and Québec, your preferences are not at all so strange. (Well, Monty Python 🤷 does not go over well here, among French speakers, being too hard to understand if one’s native language is not English – and even if it is, for that matter.) Kick boxing? French-Canadians love it, and tending still (but with ever more exceptions among the young) to be smaller than gluttonous Americans, they produce more of the little, wiry, quick and high-kicking boxers that you love so much.

Being from Long Beach, Calif., I wish, though, that we had “roller derby” (a sort of hell on roller skates) up here, but if it were to catch on some day, I would not be surprised at all.

Pax, Jerry Parker
 
mikeledes said:
An oak tree starts out its existence as a small seed. I know you don’t want to hear this :p… but why don’t you do something about it? Start your own fellowship group of Catholic converts and cradle Catholics that are interested in joining. There is a lot of complacency in many Catholic parishes. Be a catalyst in your own parish to end that complacency and you may inspire others to do the same.

God Bless,
Michael
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I am catholic cradle to grave as my wife would say. Apparently, you didn’t really pay attention to the eloquent statements of her observations. Her statements have merit. I grew up in catholic school. The youth group at our church was an afterthought. Many other religions have full-time Youth Coordinators and have the task of bringing the kids together for fellowship. In addition, many religions have an informal prayer sessions on Wednesdays or Fridays. That is a great time for fellowship. Ask a catholic what there attachment to there church is and most would say, “going to mass on Sunday”!
 
Apologies for the blind post and a kind of off-topic tone, but when I first read the title I couldn’t help but immediately read it to the tune of “Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again” from “Phantom of the Opera.” 😃

Wishing to be Protestant again…
 
Kloz,

**You wrote: ** I am Catholic, cradle to grave, as my wife would say. Apparently, you didn’t really pay attention to the eloquent statements of her observations. Her statements have merit. I grew up in Catholic school. The youth group at our church was an afterthought. Many other religions have full-time Youth Coordinators and have the task of bringing the kids together for fellowship. In addition, many religions have an informal prayer sessions on Wednesdays or Fridays. That is a great time for fellowship. Ask a Catholic what their attachment to there Church is and most would say, “going to mass on Sunday”​

I suspect that a lot of the lack of fellowship in Catholic parishes is due to the decline in Catholic schools. :eek: When the Catholic school system still was intact in its full, erstwhile vigour, the parish school seems to have tended to bind the folks of a parish together more than any single other factor. (I am writing this conditionally, since I am no sociologist and have little interest in that dreary field of study!) Most parents, teachers, priests, and students had something in common because of the parish school. It was a social binder in the parish and most parishes did have parochial schools. Now, mostly without the schools, parishes have to find other ways to encourage fraternalising among the faithful. The loss of Catholic schools also means that parishes need to find and use other avenues for catechising the faithful. Alas, little of any of this has been done.

There is another, less tangible factor. Liberalism and sloth combine to make so many clergy, and some faithful, indifferent to the slide in communicant numbers in the parishes and dioceses. The Church is losing whole segments of the Catholic population to the Protestant deniminations and, especially, to the Fundamentalist and Pentecostal sects. The young are one example, of course, but not alone. Think of the great shift among Latinos, Chicanos, Ricans, Hispanics (whatever you wish to call them), who used to be strongly and persistently Catholic in numbers. Now the Church, which seems to care so little about holding any faithful soever if that take some exertion, is oblivious to the wholesale loss of the faithful of this ethnic and language group, not only in Latin America, but within the U. S. of A. and Canada themselves. A Church that compromises with liberal theology loses its zeal to propagate the Faith. A Church that is lazy, even if relatively but listlessly orthodox, loses the same zeal, too.

What the solution(s) is or are is another matter, but may the Church please wake up and acknowledge the problem? Then there may come some interest in doing something to revitalise parish life in the midst of social change.

Pax, Jerry Parker
 
Jerry,
What you say about the Catholic schools being a “binder” is very true. A dear priest in my
childhood said the same to my mother when she enrolled us in the nearest parish school.
Many, many friendships that were started in those years, (all five of us attended)were/are
lifelong.
I think part of the problem today, besides the fact that parish schools are fewer, are that
people are still trying to let their living a Catholic life be their ONLY witness. It takes a lot
more for each of us. It is responding to the Catholics who left the Church at opportune
times when they make false statements, and not just being silent, it means reaching out
after Mass when you see someone new or that you think are new. It means calling some
and inviting them to go to a church function with you. Some people would like to go, but
they hesitate to go alone.
I can think of a lot more, but, must go.
 
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