L
Lokadottir
Guest
I’m not talking Black Mass though. Just pagan ritual in general.
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J
JamesTheJust
Guest
Ancient paganism didn’t use any of those things which you call ritualistic. That came only with the resurfacing of paganism in the modern age, which similarly plagiarized Catholicism.
S
Skadi
Guest
I must say, I’m very surprised there isn’t MORE fire n brimstone here. These threads blow up so easily. I’m no longer a Wiccan, though I was for a time, and don’t practice my religions own brand of magic. But it is real, I’ve seen and fealt it myself. There are things beyond known science out there.
But it still amazes me how many people on this site believe in stuff like the satanic ritual abuse conspiracy that got so much talk in the 90s. Stuff long disproven.
People fear what they don’t understand, and that’s why pagan folks get demonized these days.
But it still amazes me how many people on this site believe in stuff like the satanic ritual abuse conspiracy that got so much talk in the 90s. Stuff long disproven.
People fear what they don’t understand, and that’s why pagan folks get demonized these days.
S
Skadi
Guest
This s incorrect. Paganism was highly ritualized. And much early Christian symbolism was influenced by this.
Just look at the elaborate temples constructed in Rome, Babylon, Athens, paganism has traditionally been extreamly ritualistic.
J
JamesTheJust
Guest
I didn’t deny that they used rituals, only that their rituals were extremely similar to those of Catholicism.
J
John_Lazarus
Guest
Can you clarify this statement? Causing harm to others is not a Christian invention.
Are you positing:
- Everyone was running around being pagan and good until the Christians came along and invented evil; or
- No True Wiccan, Scottish or otherwise would cause harm to another; or
- Something else entirely, and I have gotten the wrong end of the stick, here.
Please enlighten.
S
Skadi
Guest
I’m not exactly sure what they are trying to say, but Wiccans (and not all witches are Wiccans) follow the Wiccan Rede which states “and it harm none do as though wilt”. As this is the central tenant of Wicca, it can be assumed that a initiated Wiccan who purposefully breaks this rule has diverged from the craft as laid down by Gardner and no longer falls into the realm of “No true Scotsman”.
P
prodromos
Guest
Witchcraft is widespread in Africa.
C
cornbread_r2
Guest
I’m far more concerned about the thousands of children who have been tortured, maimed and killed in the resultant African witch hunts (detailed previously).
S
SMGS127
Guest
Did you notice how I put “magic” in quotes when discussing God? I meant that calling on any being other than God was more likely to draw the attention of malicious spirits (e.g. demons) than beneficial spirits (e.g. angels), and it was dangerous for a person to do, opening their soul up to any being whom answers them. Obviously I wasn’t suggesting that prayer to God is like casting a spell
. You don’t need to be snarky.
R
rvergenz
Guest
I have met witches/warlocks, in fact the leader of a local coven. They were “nice” people, we got along well, and I helped my co-worker advance in our mutual work. Nonetheless, our church teaches that witchcraft and sorcery are gravely evil:
Divination and magic
2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility. (305)
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others—even if this were for the sake of restoring their health—are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. … (Catechism of the Catholic Church)
One need not judge the heart of a person doing witchcraft, but should discern their actions and words by the above objective criteria, and work at a spiritual level against what they (sometimes unknowingly) are doing (perhaps, playing at). They also “played with” other serious sins, which eventually were their undoing. I found it necessary to eject their black candles and other paraphernalia from our mutual workplace as follows. My spiritual director, a priest, recommended I pray against the presence and power of the devil using sacramentals, such as blessed salt, holy water and holy relics. The wiccan paraphernalia were then withdrawn by their owners. One should not undertake such spiritual warfare on ones own, but with prayerful partners and spiritual direction. There is a significant kickback at the spiritual level, in temptations to sin and in “bad luck.” Satan does not wish to be opposed. Compared to me, Satan is powerful. Compared to God my Master, he is nothing.
S
Skadi
Guest
I’m glad you were able to get along with you co-worker, however I’d just like to offer some advice, it is a very grave insult to refer to a pagan as a warlock.
While in modern society Warlock is sometimes seen as an male equivalent to Witch, Witch is actualy a gender neutral term. To Witches, Wiccan, and other magic users such as shaman and cerimonial magicians, a Warlock is one who has taken the left hand path, using magic to cause harm and for personal gain or vengeance. Like a fallen Jedi become a Sith Lord if you ever watched starwars. There are few who would claim that title, and fewer still who claim it and actualy know anything about magic.
In me and Loki’s case such an insult is even greater. We are Norse/Germanic pagans, and Warlock comes from the old word for oath breaker. We take our oathes very seriously, and oath breakers are dammed to never enter the gods halls. A Warlock is a man who’s word is nothing, a man without honor.
I’m not sure why u used that term or if you even realized just letting you know for future reference should you even encounter those folks again, they may not enjoy hearing that word thrown around. It’s the one word that seems to be a pan-pagan swear word.
B
Bruised_Reed
Guest
I blame Bewitched.
M
marywarfield
Guest
Spoken like a true witch burner
M
marywarfield
Guest
The question that I have always had is who in the
end is the one more superstitious? Those with robes
candles and incense or those afraid of such?
Who sinned more in superstition? Puritans afraid of
witches or the accused “witches”?
M
marywarfield
Guest
One of my favorite stories. A couple of us Catholics
were invited to an ecumenical prayer meeting filled
with Southern Baptists. It was a dark and stormy night.
For real.
And the old minister looking just like Rod Steiger in the
Heat of the Night said. “Let’s pray”. My friend and I
pulled out our rosaries, the minister screamed “Witches!”
and all his followers hit the floor as a loud pop was heard
and the lights went out. As the minister loudly denounced
our catholic devilry as being the cause of this obvious
warning from God, my friend went in search of the
circuit breaker box. For another had plugged in one too many
electric coffee pots on the same circuit.
Lights on, prayer group over.
One wonders- who is more possessed by superstition-
the minister or the Catholics?
were invited to an ecumenical prayer meeting filled
with Southern Baptists. It was a dark and stormy night.
For real.
And the old minister looking just like Rod Steiger in the
Heat of the Night said. “Let’s pray”. My friend and I
pulled out our rosaries, the minister screamed “Witches!”
and all his followers hit the floor as a loud pop was heard
and the lights went out. As the minister loudly denounced
our catholic devilry as being the cause of this obvious
warning from God, my friend went in search of the
circuit breaker box. For another had plugged in one too many
electric coffee pots on the same circuit.
Lights on, prayer group over.
One wonders- who is more possessed by superstition-
the minister or the Catholics?
S
Skadi
Guest
I totally agree. I have alot of respect for Catholicism, even as a former catholic. I can not say the same of Evangelical Protestantism.
L
Lokadottir
Guest
:ehh:Spoken like a true witch burner
I KNOW witches?
I’m not saying it was right. It was horrific and wrong. But to an outsider Catholics are performing a freaky cannibalistic ritual.
It should also be noted Catholics did their share of burning.
L
Lokadottir
Guest
I’m ex-Catholic as well. I respect the tradition.
But it actually bothered me when I was young because thought the Mass sounded like those scary pagan rituals I had heard about.
J
JamesTheJust
Guest
We’ve debunked this already.
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