Witchcraft, wizardry, demons

[djames99]

If you have no clue what you’re doing? Yes Ouija boards are very dangerous. They’re spiritual omegle.

But connecting to dead spirits is hardly the only form of magic. And when it is used people who know what they are doing take precautions to keep malevolent beings out and themselves safe.

If you have no clue.
*when people who don’t know what they are doing *

There is no control.

What should be remembered is that at the instant these parties decide to indulge, they are never in control. This is because at that instant they also change their allegiance. This is the problem. There is never any protection if the initiator is a human being. (however, for those non initiators who are among friends of the Lord and find themselves in confrontation of spirits, even in a non provocative way, have the confident protection of their prayers,the saints, and their guardian angels.)

Spirits that present in a loving manner, has a disguised love one, or in a trusting manner making promises and relating events that only the person would know, are just part of a greater strategy which will show later when it is too late.

But even if the person thinks he/she is dealing with benign things such has nature worship, his diversion from God to obtain what he desires sets the stage for an unprotected life with it’s many perils.

 

[Skadi]

If you have no clue.
*when people who don’t know what they are doing *

There is no control.

What should be remembered is that at the instant these parties decide to indulge, they are never in control. This is because at that instant they also change their allegiance. This is the problem. There is never any protection if the initiator is a human being. (however, for those non initiators who are among friends of the Lord and find themselves in confrontation of spirits, even in a non provocative way, have the confident protection of their prayers,the saints, and their guardian angels.)

Spirits that present in a loving manner, has a disguised love one, or in a trusting manner making promises and relating events that only the person would know, are just part of a greater strategy which will show later when it is too late.

But even if the person thinks he/she is dealing with benign things such has nature worship, his diversion from God to obtain what he desires sets the stage for an unprotected life with it’s many perils.

I totaly agree with Loki’s analogy, Ouiji boards are a spiritual Omegle, akin to dialing a random phone number.

Our difference with you here is that we disagree on the nature of spirits and on human capeabilitys. We do not believe in a dicotemy of spirits (either its an angel or a demon) and we believe and individual does have some degree of power and ability to protect oneself.

 

[djames99]

Not believing will not make them disappear, and our attitude suites them just fine for their purpose.

In their natural abilities angels(demons) are higher on the scale, which were not lost due to their fall. They were instrumental in their task of creating the universe, which includes us in our material nature…this says a lot. They can still present has someone we love, and they can overpower us absolutely, and have a broader range of instruments available for our misery. Demons busy themselves in disrupting the natural order, but they don’t get to do this unless they get permission from God. It goes without saying that it behooves us to remain on his good side.

As for us, we are here has servants, and what protection we have is determined by our obedience and loyalty. Note the tie… obedience > servitude. Obedience includes our willingness to obey doctrine and scripture, which commands us to distance ourselves from
tampering with things we are forbidden(God left this to our will has a test). This is a serious sin, and still in the species of a temptation, which followed through from disobedience has a source. God is not going to shackle his creation so we can amuse ourselves in a broader jurisdiction. We are not here for ourselves, but for Him.

But what of the implications of it?. We hear of parents tampering, and they see the focus directed immediately to an infant, the parent coming out unscathed but puzzled. This is so because these demons invited through a open welcoming door, are attracted to their opposites; Innocence.vs.total guilt. The parents will be held to account by the soul of the tormented infant, and his soul with all it’s faculties, even if the child has not reached the age of reason, will be witness for the prosecution in the parent’s judgement, has he failed him has protector.

Some men still wish to play with fire, and will sacrifice themselves and everyone to do it.

 

[livingwordunity]

I’m not exactly sure what they are trying to say, but Wiccans (and not all witches are Wiccans) follow the Wiccan Rede which states “and it harm none do as though wilt”. As this is the central tenant of Wicca, it can be assumed that a initiated Wiccan who purposefully breaks this rule has diverged from the craft as laid down by Gardner and no longer falls into the realm of “No true Scotsman”.

Our Golden Rule is tougher to follow since we are supposed to actually do something good for someone in need instead of only being required to leave them alone while we do our own selfish thing.

 

[Skadi]

Our Golden Rule is tougher to follow since we are supposed to actually do something good for someone in need instead of only being required to leave them alone while we do our own selfish thing.

… Well I’m not a Wiccan, but this seams like a rather confrontational statement.

 

[Lokadottir]

… Well I’m not a Wiccan, but this seams like a rather confrontational statement.

Indeed and the Rule of 3 kind of addresses that anyway.

 

[Tzimisce]

As a practicing pagan, am I okay on this board? looks around nervously

 

[Tzimisce]

Our Golden Rule is tougher to follow since we are supposed to actually do something good for someone in need instead of only being required to leave them alone while we do our own selfish thing.

It’s very hard to define “no harm”.

That said: a lot of books on witchcraft include hexes and curses…

 

[Skadi]

As a practicing pagan, am I okay on this board? looks around nervously

Haha for the most part

 

[hembergb]

Haha for the most part

Of course it is, it’s a great opportunity for us to pray for you!

 

[Skadi]

Of course it is, it’s a great opportunity for us to pray for you!

Lol your ok on this board if your ok being patronized

 

[Lokadottir]

Not believing will not make them disappear.

Believing in them won’t make them exist either.

 

[mikeabboud]

I have a hard time with these types of arguments. As Christians we understand how sin affects us spiritually, as people trying to do the will of GOD we understand that it is sinful to put our will against Gods will. Pagans, and atheists have rejected outright the necessity of doing Gods will… As general rule they don’t believe they can sin. Many, probably most, will acknowledge moral imperatives (some wont) but they do not equate that to sin. The have rejected Christ’s saving action, as I understand it they are committing the unforgivable sin.(unforgivable in that if you die in this state you will not end up with God.) Whatever “other” sin they commit is almost irrelevant to that. Be it “magic” or divination or whatever. Before sin can have meaning you must understand that there is sin. To approach them we shouldn’t speak of sin or the Bible or catechism it will mean nothing to them. They have rejected it. Instead they must be approached with charity. They must see in our actions and our words the importance of serving God. I don’t mean that we don’t try to convert them, but they must be approached differently. On the plus side the pagan believes in the world beyond the physical, the atheist does not he is hard to reach. Many are religious(even if they call it spiritual) so they know they are made for something more so they are seeking it out. There is much to build on. But condemning their actions as sinful will not help… We must show them the better way. So pray for them but don’t argue with them.

 

[Skadi]

I have a hard time with these types of arguments. As Christians we understand how sin affects us spiritually, as people trying to do the will of GOD we understand that it is sinful to put our will against Gods will. Pagans, and atheists have rejected outright the necessity of doing Gods will… As general rule they don’t believe they can sin. Many, probably most, will acknowledge moral imperatives (some wont) but they do not equate that to sin. The have rejected Christ’s saving action, as I understand it they are committing the unforgivable sin.(unforgivable in that if you die in this state you will not end up with God.) Whatever “other” sin they commit is almost irrelevant to that. Be it “magic” or divination or whatever. Before sin can have meaning you must understand that there is sin. To approach them we shouldn’t speak of sin or the Bible or catechism it will mean nothing to them. They have rejected it. Instead they must be approached with charity. They must see in our actions and our words the importance of serving God. I don’t mean that we don’t try to convert them, but they must be approached differently. On the plus side the pagan believes in the world beyond the physical, the atheist does not he is hard to reach. Many are religious(even if they call it spiritual) so they know they are made for something more so they are seeking it out. There is much to build on. But condemning their actions as sinful will not help… We must show them the better way. So pray for them but don’t argue with them.

This is an inaccurate claim, while we don’t believe in “sin” it is very possible for a person to dishonor themself and remove themself from the favor of the gods, preventing them reaching Valhalla, atleast in me and Loki’s religion. It just not a intricate and hyper developed concept as christians have come to define sin. It’s just… Dishonoring oneself.

 

[Tzimisce]

I have a hard time with these types of arguments. As Christians we understand how sin affects us spiritually, as people trying to do the will of GOD we understand that it is sinful to put our will against Gods will.

You mean your God’s will.

Pagans, and atheists have rejected outright the necessity of doing Gods will… As general rule they don’t believe they can sin. Many, probably most, will acknowledge moral imperatives (some wont) but they do not equate that to sin.

That’s not true. Not for me anyway.

The have rejected Christ’s saving action, as I understand it they are committing the unforgivable sin.(unforgivable in that if you die in this state you will not end up with God.)

I don’t believe Christ died for the Gentiles.

Christ was a Jew. His Apostles were Jews. He talked mostly to Jews.

I understand that the Apostles went out to the Gentiles after Jesus disappeared, but Jesus himself wasn’t really concerned with the Gentiles.

Whatever “other” sin they commit is almost irrelevant to that. Be it “magic” or divination or whatever.

Prophecies - which the Bible is full of, is a form of divination. Why are those prophecies okay and other prophecies sinful?

Before sin can have meaning you must understand that there is sin. To approach them we shouldn’t speak of sin or the Bible or catechism it will mean nothing to them. They have rejected it. Instead they must be approached with charity. They must see in our actions and our words the importance of serving God. I don’t mean that we don’t try to convert them, but they must be approached differently. On the plus side the pagan believes in the world beyond the physical, the atheist does not he is hard to reach. Many are religious(even if they call it spiritual) so they know they are made for something more so they are seeking it out. There is much to build on. But condemning their actions as sinful will not help… We must show them the better way. So pray for them but don’t argue with them.

Why are you posting this on this particular thread? You argue that you’re not supposed to condemn the pagans and then you do.

Are you just flaming and trying to make people mad?

You could have posted this in a thread about Catholic outreach - but you instead posted it here, in the pagan thread.

Why?

 

[Medawlinno]

No offence intended, but…

“2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others—even if this were for the sake of restoring their health—are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. **Wearing charms is also reprehensible. **Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. … (Catechism of the Catholic Church)”

Regarding the bolded text - what do you think wearing a cross, crucifix, scapular, St. Jude’s or St. Christopher’s medal is??? I would argue that many Pagans would see that as wearing a charm. No difference between the spiritual significance of your “charms” as opposed to ours.

 

[Medawlinno]

I would agree with many other Pagan posters here - true magic (or magick as it’s often spelt to differenciate it from “stage magic”) is not something that is “instantaneous” - no one’s calling up the wind out of nothing or sending lightning bolts down or levitating people. It’s something very subtle and usualy unnoticed by many.

 

[Tzimisce]

No offence intended, but…

“2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others—even if this were for the sake of restoring their health—are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. **Wearing charms is also reprehensible. **Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. … (Catechism of the Catholic Church)”

Regarding the bolded text - what do you think wearing a cross, crucifix, scapular, St. Jude’s or St. Christopher’s medal is??? I would argue that many Pagans would see that as wearing a charm. No difference between the spiritual significance of your “charms” as opposed to ours.

To be fair, lots of organizations have symbols used to identify or remind people. The Republican Elephant, the Communist Hammer and Sickle, the Boy Scouts and so on.

 

[Lokadottir]

You could have posted this in a thread about Catholic outreach - but you instead posted it here, in the pagan thread.

Why?

Because for Catholics everything is Catholic outreach.

 

[Tzimisce]

Because for Catholics everything is Catholic outreach.

One of the reasons I came to this board is because I listen to the radio show “Catholic Answers Live”. I like that the hosts are always nice and kind to the callers even if the callers become aggressive.

While unapologetically Catholic, the hosts never seem to be forcing or demanding conformity to their views.