Witches- A Christian invention?

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The Catholic Church has many festivals on the same days as Pagan ones once were (Yule for example). Now that is for a good reason, Catholicism has replaced pagan customs and some of that paganism has been synthesized into Catholic traditions. The Catholic Church has been fighting paganism and witchcraft for 200 years. Or has it? Were there “witches” or “witchcraft” until Christianity invented those terms? Or were these were simply excuses to punish and abolish followers of “old” faiths? Any scholars here can enlighten me?
 
The terms may be new, but the seeking of spiritual powers is as old as people. The medium that Saul went to to seek out the spirit of the prophet Samuel comes to mind.
 
I am not an apologist,but witches were seen in the Bible it is not something made up 200 years ago.God Bless
 
there are numerous old testament admonishments against witchcraft. i think this pretty much answers your question.

if you want to find where they are, just go to www.biblegateway.com and type the word ‘witch’ into the search criteria - you’ll be shown many verses in the OT and NT alike that discuss witches.
 
I’m not sure how far back “witches” and “witchcraft” were fought by the Church, but my ancestor was wrongly hanged (by Protestants) in 1692 so it’s more than 200 years…

God Bless,

Robert.

BTW…for any Wicca out there, the “witches” of Salem weren’t killed because of Wiccan practices. They were innocent, God-fearing puritans who were killed out of hysteria. I went to a museum in Salem and about puked when it took the experience and tied it to the long-suffering Wicca. Sorry, but I’m a little sensitive on the subject. The courts reversed the decision and compensated my Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Grandfather in 1711.
 
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rlg94086:
BTW…for any Wicca out there, the “witches” of Salem weren’t killed because of Wiccan practices.
Thank you, but I already knew that. 🙂 Although I can understand why you would post that as there are several people (misinformed, and usually anti-Christian) that believe this. Unfortunately for them, Wicca didn’t exist until about the 1950’s. And as you said, the people hanged weren’t even witches either.
 
BlessedBe13,

In your quote you state that it is important that you have faith. May I ask, faith in what?
 
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JimO:
BlessedBe13,

In your quote you state that it is important that you have faith. May I ask, faith in what?
I feel that faith is something that can help people through the hardest times. I’m not dictating what people should have faith in, which is also implied in the quote, but that faith itself is important.

I have faith in the God and Goddess. Christians have faith in the Triune God. Muslims have faith in Allah. Etc. You may believe that I am wrong, but you have no right to try and take away my faith. I may believe that Christians are wrong, but I have no right to try and take that away from them.
 
but what happens when we get to the end? will we all be right? will some of us be wrong? isn’t it foolish to have ‘faith’ in something that can’t help you? or worse, will try to destroy you?
 
Back to the issue at hand…

The words trace back to Old English, but the concept of witchcraft is ancient and from many cultures.

From www.britannica.com (I bolded the reference to 1Samuel and the Church Fathers.):
Use of alleged supernatural powers, usually to control people or events.
Sorcery is sometimes distinguished from witchcraft in that sorcery may be practiced by anyone with the appropriate knowledge, using charms, spells, or potions, whereas witchcraft is considered to result from inherent mystical power and to be practiced by invisible means. Modern witches, however, claim that their craft is learned, and therefore another distinction between witchcraft and sorcery is that sorcery is always used with evil intent. Controversies over witchcraft and sorcery have been especially prevalent in close-knit communities experiencing decline or misfortune and embroiled in petty social conflict and scapegoating. In ancient Greece, witchcraft was mentioned as early as Homer (see Circe). The best-known sorceress in Classical times was the legendary Medea. The Roman Horace describes two witches in his Satires. The Bible contains several references to witches, notably the** Witch of Endor consulted by Saul (1 Samuel 28). The early Church Fathers held that witchcraft was a delusion and denounced its practice**. In the Middle Ages, witchcraft was believed to involve demonic possession. It was also associated with heresy and so came within the scope of the Inquisition. In the witch-hunts of the 16th–17th centuries, European courts frequently regarded witches and sorcerers alike as candidates for burning. Although estimates of the number killed vary widely, it is likely that between 40,000 and 60,000 people were executed and many more were tortured and imprisoned during the witch-hunts. In the 20th century the modern witchcraft movement, Wicca, was established and promoted respect for nature and a pantheistic worldview. Belief in witchcraft is apparent in traditional societies throughout the world. The Navajo protect themselves against witches with sand or pollen paintings, and in African societies people seek aid from medical doctors and witch doctors, the former for treatment of the “external” causes of the illness and the latter for the “internal”. See also
 
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BlessedBe13:
II have faith in the God and Goddess. Christians have faith in the Triune God. Muslims have faith in Allah. Etc. You may believe that I am wrong, but you have no right to try and take away my faith. I may believe that Christians are wrong, but I have no right to try and take that away from them.
I have no interest in “taking away” anyone’s faith. I only believe in sharing what Christ has done in my life with those who are searching and interested. By participating in this forum, it is presumed that you are searching or interested in what Catholics believe. If neither, then why do you post so much?

Regarding “faith”, it is clear that someone can have “faith” in an inanimate object or idea, or misguided “faith” in something sinister. I know atheists who do not believe in God or an afterlife, and yet, when pressed, I find that they have “faith” in something that they do not understand, such as the origin of mass and energy. The followers of Jim Jones had “faith” in him. Everybody has “faith” in something.

I suggest that the object of one’s faith is far more important than having faith. In fact, it is all important.
 
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jeffreedy789:
there are numerous old testament admonishments against witchcraft. i think this pretty much answers your question.

if you want to find where they are, just go to www.biblegateway.com and type the word ‘witch’ into the search criteria - you’ll be shown many verses in the OT and NT alike that discuss witches.
Thanks Jeff, I got biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=witch&qs_version=31

All from Samuel it seems. BlessedBe13, what do you know about the history of Witches? Also how does the history of the Devil fit into this equation?
 
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jeffreedy789:
but what happens when we get to the end? will we all be right? will some of us be wrong? isn’t it foolish to have ‘faith’ in something that can’t help you? or worse, will try to destroy you?
My quote was in regards to divinity. Not people, not inanimate objects, etc. I believe all paths lead to the same end. I believe that all religions worship the same “Creator” but this creator appears differently to different people. I view divinity as a God and Goddess - separate and united at the same time. Christians view divinity as the Triune God. Etc.

In the end there can be only one objective truth, but I do not believe that anyone really knows what that is. All people have is their faith. As I also believe in an all-loving Creator, I do not believe that he/she/it will be angry or punish it’s beloved creations for not having the “right” idea of divinity. Certain views of divinity may help different people to express their faith in divinity more than others. That is why I say it is having faith that matters, not what you have faith in. As I said earlier, the quote relates to divinity, not people, etc.
 
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FightingFat:
All from Samuel it seems. BlessedBe13, what do you know about the history of Witches? Also how does the history of the Devil fit into this equation?
I’m not sure exactly what it is you are looking for.
 
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BlessedBe13:
I’m not sure exactly what it is you are looking for.
Well, wicca, pronounced “witcha”… Is an old English word (NOT Celtic) meaning simply “witch”, or more specifically a male witch. Gardner coined this term and even its mispronounciation when he invented the Wiccan Religion in the 20th century.

The followers of “The Old Religion”, the English translation of the Italian term used by the followers of Aradia, La Vecchia Religione, or commonly referred to as Folk Magick, never considered themselves “witches” or practitioners of “witchcraft”… they were simply pagans taking part in rituals that focused around nature and “Mother Earth”. It wasn’t until Christianity tainted the Pagan religions with accusations of being evil sorcerers (witches) that the two were even associated. This is why Gardner chose to call his new “religion” (erroneously) Wicca, because of that relation.
It is obvious that the term “wicca” had nothing to do with old Celtic pagan religions and that the association of witches and witchcraft with these old pagan religions is directly due to the influence of Christianity… oh, and of course the efforts of Gardner.

I want to know if there are any older references to witches? If it is true that witches were a Christian invention or if they existed prior to Christianity converting the pagans?
 
FightingFat said:
(NOT Celtic) meaning simply “witch”, or more specifically a male witch.

I am aware of this, and you don’t need to point out to me that it isn’t Celtic. 🙂
never considered themselves “witches” or practitioners of “witchcraft”… they were simply pagans taking part in rituals that focused around nature and “Mother Earth”.
I agree.
I want to know if there are any older references to witches? If it is true that witches were a Christian invention or if they existed prior to Christianity converting the pagans?
etymonline.com/index.php?search=witch&searchmode=none
 
From Post #10:
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rlg94086:
Back to the issue at hand…

The Bible contains several references to witches, notably the** Witch of Endor consulted by Saul (1 Samuel 28). …**
It looks to me like rlg94086 has properly reminded us that the concept of a “witch” was historically recorded in the OT Holy Scripture…way before Christians got involved.

To propose then, that Christianity “invented” witches or witchcraft, appears to be a misguided suggestion.

I’m can’t even see why someone would suggest it, since it’s so easily disproven. But maybe I’ve missed something…

Thanks for those posts…
God Bless Us All!
 
Kurt G.:
From Post #10:

It looks to me like rlg94086 has properly reminded us that the concept of a “witch” was historically recorded in the OT Holy Scripture…way before Christians got involved.

To propose then, that Christianity “invented” witches or witchcraft, appears to be a misguided suggestion.

I’m can’t even see why someone would suggest it, since it’s so easily disproven. But maybe I’ve missed something…

Thanks for those posts…
God Bless Us All!
You’re onto something- so Christianity can’t have invented ‘witches’ because the Jews did in the OT?
 
Invented is a silly word that misunderstands the ontology of witches and witchcraft. The term witch was given to someone who used sorcery or magic. The existence of the practitioner would have existed before the word did.

Are you claiming that no one ever used sorcery or magic? If so, I can see why you use the term, but why not just ask directly if the Church or the Jews or some other ancient cultures fabricated sorcery and magic to explain something they saw? The Native Americans believed in supernatural magic well before any contact with Christians.

Certainly, throughout history the term “witch” has been applied to people who didn’t fit this description. That doesn’t mean witches were invented.

God Bless,

Robert.
 
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