Withholding relations and crumbling marriage, Help!

[agentlank]

So I was recently received into the church and my wife did not join. One of the big sticking points for her is NFP. She would like me to use our old method of birth control (withdraw). I’ve made it quite clear that I morally object to that and that I will not partake in the marital act if we aren’t going to be open to life.

We have 4 beautiful children so it isn’t as though we haven’t been open to life, but we are not in a position mentally or financially to have another child at this time. It has probably been over a month since we have had relations and she attempted to pressure me into it this evening. Thus this email, she is very upset with me about it and I quite frankly don’t know what to do. She says that I can’t simply continue to withhold relations but I feel that is the only morally acceptable thing to do.

I will add that I’m not masturbating or pleasing myself in other manners, so it isn’t as though I’m getting my “fix” else where. It is almost bizarre since I’ve been interested in Catholicism so many aspects of our marriage have gone down hill, but I know for certain I’m a better person in many other areas. For instance I was addicted to pornography for about 15-20 years I’d say and I haven’t viewed any since August when I really decided I wanted to become Catholic. I’ve still struggled with masturbation since August but nothing like it was at one time.

I don’t know what to do, it seems as though our marriage is crumbling but at the same time i’ve never felt closer to the Lord in my life. I’m going to email my priest tomorrow for a sit down to discuss this topic further (already spoke briefly about it with him).

Suggestions and prayers are welcomed.

 

[Xantippe]

So I was recently received into the church and my wife did not join. One of the big sticking points for her is NFP. She would like me to use our old method of birth control (withdraw). I’ve made it quite clear that I morally object to that and that I will not partake in the marital act if we aren’t going to be open to life.

We have 4 beautiful children so it isn’t as though we haven’t been open to life, but we are not in a position mentally or financially to have another child at this time. It has probably been over a month since we have had relations and she attempted to pressure me into it this evening. Thus this email, she is very upset with me about it and I quite frankly don’t know what to do. She says that I can’t simply continue to withhold relations but I feel that is the only morally acceptable thing to do.

I will add that I’m not masturbating or pleasing myself in other manners, so it isn’t as though I’m getting my “fix” else where. It is almost bizarre since I’ve been interested in Catholicism so many aspects of our marriage have gone down hill, but I know for certain I’m a better person in many other areas. For instance I was addicted to pornography for about 15-20 years I’d say and I haven’t viewed any since August when I really decided I wanted to become Catholic. I’ve still struggled with masturbation since August but nothing like it was at one time.

I don’t know what to do, it seems as though our marriage is crumbling but at the same time i’ve never felt closer to the Lord in my life. I’m going to email my priest tomorrow for a sit down to discuss this topic further (already spoke briefly about it with him).

Suggestions and prayers are welcomed.

Why don’t you guys read a book like Taking Charge of Your Fertility together (it’s a secular book) and start charting. Maybe even throw in a fertility monitor just for added security. And stick to Phase 3 (maybe with an extra day or two), just to be quite sure.

I think that if you guys chart for a month or two and are able to get good data, you may get some buy-in from your wife. But start charting now.

Best wishes!

 

[agentlank]

Thank you for reply, but I forgot to add that my wife is crrently post partum and doesn’t have her period back yet. So charting isn’t an option at this point.

 

[Xantippe]

Thank you for reply, but I forgot to add that my wife is crrently post partum and doesn’t have her period back yet. So charting isn’t an option at this point.

How about doing a fertility monitor, then?

As you may have seen in other discussions, postpartum NFP can be iffy.

For your and your wife’s peace of mind, you might do best to wait until she gets her cycles back. I’d still do the fertility monitor, though, just to familiarize her with the principles. It is expensive, but it would probably help your wife a lot.

Good luck!

 

[tweedlealice]

Thank you for reply, but I forgot to add that my wife is crrently post partum and doesn’t have her period back yet. So charting isn’t an option at this point.

You need not reply to this note. I am a retired nurse. I hope your 6 weeks is over post-partum. Sometimes medicine changes things but I wouldn’t fool w the 6 weeks time frame. I will say my GYN just mentioned some of her pts have come in on their 6 weeks pregnant.

REASON FOR MY CONCERN IS THIS: 22yo post-partum woman comes into my ER unresponsive w EMT’S performing CPR. Her partner and she were having sex. They bought an OTC sex stimulant you get from pharmacist they sell behind counters. The drug would have her heart beat faster. Her blood vessels would dilate. The inside of a uterus is VERY POROUS after delivery. As he was moving he was pumping air into her vagina and uterus and gave her an air embolus and she died. Air went into venous system and traveled to heart and stopped it. All the drugs and emergency measures we took didn’t work. Father was a druggie. I hope the grandparents are raising child.

This is the part where we are suppose to be praying for you and the above suggestion should be in a message. I am new at this and still get this wrong. But I would want everyone to see the above message. We think we can break all kinds of rules for feel good things. There are consequences.
We are sinners saved by grace. My best friend said,“God is not allowed past her bedroom door.” Well, what can I say on that. I am as old as the dinosaurs now. I was pregnant 7 times, miscarried 3 according to our conscience, we are at peace. It’s the best we could do. If I get time in the Hotel Purgatory, I’ll see a lot of friends I know. But I pray for forgiveness and mercy. I am sorry that life had to go that way for us. So many things to justify the choices we make. God I feel understands.
But for your prayer. AGENTLANK
Dear God, In this beautiful time surrounding a nativity their is turmoil because of spiritual changes because the Father of the household (St. Joseph) is falling in paternal love w you, his Dad, Abba. Jeremiah 29:11 …I have a plan for you and it is a plan for good and not for evil…" Look it up and read it all. It is short. Ephesians 3:14-15 It is beautiful. Where Paul falls on his knees for us to ask God to send us His love like the Love Paul knows is available to us. It encompasses all of us. Then, after speaking w your priest to explain why God is raising you to a more perfect Fatherhood to guide your family. Review Ephesians, I think 5,It says where a wife will respect her husband but the husband will love his wife as Christ loves His church, even to lay down His life for her. So it could be a different chapter but it is near there. Do read a message I will send you.
So God let your child find his path, guide him through it. Let it feel that love that Paul is praying for us to feel. Let his wife feel Your magnanimous love coming to her through him. Let him remember to start courting her again. He is a stranger to her. Who is this man I am living with??He is the man who has started to give me the most precious gift I can have-Jesus.
In Christs love,
tweedlealice :hug3::flowers:

 

[therese14]

From what I study from the lives of the saints, who were married, If they have 8 children, they do not use NFP or anything, just 8 times and stop.

So virtue of chastity shines beautifully in marriage.

There are holy nuns and monks who live celibate and happy, for our reflection.

St Birgitta had 8 children.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Remember everyone is on a spiritual journey and often times that journey has people at different places in what they are comfortable accepting. If life has been one way for a long time and then one spouse unilaterally makes a change the other is not ready to accept, it will almost assuredly have negative consequences.

You are also in recent recovery from an addiction. Addicts often have a characteristic of being all headstrong in one direction or all not headstrong in a direction. We’ve all seen former smokers… Addictive personalities have certain behavioral characteristics which people in relationship with the addict get used to (despite the dysfunction of it).

Your wife married someone who has demonstrated certain characteristics and is used to certain things in her life and relationship with you. Now, you are saying she can’t have something which she desires and, as your wife, has a right to. I would guess there are feelings of control / lack of control / being controlled throughout your interactions with this. It is having a negative effect on your relationship.

So since you are asking for advice; take care of your wife while she is growing on this journey. There is nothing that so quickly turns a spouse against the church than the converted spouse being all “holier than thou” and causing grief in their life. Walk with her on the journey, don’t drag her. You were married for a long time before this change and it will probably take her a while to come around. The witness of your life and the positive way in which your conversion benefits her will speak more loudly than any words.

Good luck on your path and congrats on the new baby!

 

[sailor28]

So I was recently received into the church and my wife did not join. One of the big sticking points for her is NFP. She would like me to use our old method of birth control (withdraw). I’ve made it quite clear that I morally object to that and that I will not partake in the marital act if we aren’t going to be open to life.

We have 4 beautiful children so it isn’t as though we haven’t been open to life, but we are not in a position mentally or financially to have another child at this time. It has probably been over a month since we have had relations and she attempted to pressure me into it this evening. Thus this email, she is very upset with me about it and I quite frankly don’t know what to do. She says that I can’t simply continue to withhold relations but I feel that is the only morally acceptable thing to do.

I will add that I’m not masturbating or pleasing myself in other manners, so it isn’t as though I’m getting my “fix” else where. It is almost bizarre since I’ve been interested in Catholicism so many aspects of our marriage have gone down hill, but I know for certain I’m a better person in many other areas. For instance I was addicted to pornography for about 15-20 years I’d say and I haven’t viewed any since August when I really decided I wanted to become Catholic. I’ve still struggled with masturbation since August but nothing like it was at one time.

I don’t know what to do, it seems as though our marriage is crumbling but at the same time i’ve never felt closer to the Lord in my life. I’m going to email my priest tomorrow for a sit down to discuss this topic further (already spoke briefly about it with him).

Suggestions and prayers are welcomed.

I don’t blame your wife for having trouble with this. You’ve changed your faith and expect her to be on board with all it. I’ve seen other posts on this same topic. Some of the marriages don’t fair well over the long term. I would get a good marriage counselor. She has a right to follow her conscience. If you were addicted to porn for 20 years you can’t blame her for having some angst over your new sexual ethics.

 

[agnes_therese]

t is almost bizarre since I’ve been interested in Catholicism so many aspects of our marriage have gone down hill, but I know for certain I’m a better person in many other areas.

To me, this is a big red flag, and it tells me that your marriage problems are about more than NFP. Are you discussing with your wife these other aspects that have gone downhill? Does she agree? What is her view on them? Are you taking her feelings and opinions into account?

 

[agentlank]

Ok, so I’m not a women’s health expert, my definition of post partum was completely wrong.

Our youngest just turned 1 and my wife is still nursing and hasn’t had her first period.

So I was completely wrong about the post partum thing, I had to look it up after someone replied earlier.

At any rate the rest was all accurate. I’ve never really thought of calling my viewing of porn for so many years as an addiction and to be quite honest it kinda scares me to think that I was. But I can honestly say through the grace of God that addiction has been lifted and I no longer feel the need or desire to do that anymore.

Thank you for the replies and advice thus far. I feel like I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Xantippe]

Ok, so I’m not a women’s health expert, my definition of post partum was completely wrong.

Our youngest just turned 1 and my wife is still nursing and hasn’t had her first period.

So I was completely wrong about the post partum thing, I had to look it up after someone replied earlier.

At any rate the rest was all accurate. I’ve never really thought of calling my viewing of porn for so many years as an addiction and to be quite honest it kinda scares me to think that I was. But I can honestly say through the grace of God that addiction has been lifted and I no longer feel the need or desire to do that anymore.

Thank you for the replies and advice thus far. I feel like I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Would your wife be open to curtailing nursing soon?

Some women just won’t get a cycle even with the most token amount of breastfeeding. (I’ve had that happen several times.)

 

[agentlank]

To me, this is a big red flag, and it tells me that your marriage problems are about more than NFP. Are you discussing with your wife these other aspects that have gone downhill? Does she agree? What is her view on them? Are you taking her feelings and opinions into account?

Yes, I would say there are other issues as well. One of them being whether my wife continues to work or not, where we will send our oldest to school, should I continue school. As well as a myriad of other issues. It doesn’t help that our relationship in the beginning was never predicated on our love for Christ. In fact there was never mention of religion or God when we were dating or for several years of marriage. A lot of that was my fault, I just didn’t have interest and I would often use the excuse that I had been turned off from organized religion because Christians were just a bunch of hypocrites. I’m obviously past that point but now as the male of the family that is trying to steer the family’s spiritual direction I’m struggling. One because I was never the leader in the past and 2) because I don’t feel like I know what I’m doing.

I guess more than anything I’m coming here to vent and let some things off my chest. I’m so tired of fighting and arguing with my wife that anything that I think will lead to a heated discussion I try to avoid all together.

 

[misspriss]

There is actually a protocol for nursing with the Marquette Method using a fertility monitor, until cycles return. I used it when I was nursing my first, was able to accurately predict when I was fertile again even before my first period. Here is a link describing it.

 

[St_Pancake]

I converted last year and my wife is not Catholic. The contraception argument hasn’t been our problem as there are no eggs left.

It is my understanding that if your wife uses contraception, such as a diaphragm, if you let her know of your objection, that is her sin and not yours. I specifically mentioned the diaphragm because unlike bc pills, it isn’t an abortifacient.

As far as denying her sexual relations, that’s a bad idea in so many ways.

 

[Kelfa28]

There is actually a protocol for nursing with the Marquette Method using a fertility monitor, until cycles return. I used it when I was nursing my first, was able to accurately predict when I was fertile again even before my first period. Here is a link describing it.

As anti-EBF as I am…this is definitely an option you could look into.

If your wife is 1 year out PP, nurses and still hasn’t had a period…getting her a monitor to help figure out her fertility is a fabulous idea.

Marquette has some great forums that will answer any questions and having a monitor tell you when you are fertile or not will erase some doubt.

Of course…if she is open to the idea. I’d research it and mention it to her.

I’m planning on using Marquette because I’ve had trouble interpreting my cycles. Never was able to achieve infertility by breast feeding (in any way…EBFing or not) so my cycles were just nothing but erratic from 5 weeks PP until I stopped nursing all together.

This time we are getting a monitor to help out.

Prayers for you…I can’t imagine how difficult this is. I was having a hard enough time shouldering all the NFP responsibilities myself…and with a Catholic husband.

BTW…I would recommend marriage counseling too…it sounds like there is more problems then a disagreement with postponing pregnancy.

 

[agentlank]

Some say I shouldn’t withhold, others say I should propose that she uses BC. If the Church is what She says She is and I’m not supposed to use BC and we are not open to life then I’m supposed to abstain. At least that is my understanding.

Some will get on here and say that I should just cave and not withhold either, but then I’m the biggest hypocrite imaginable and I’d be purposely turning away from God every time we engaged in the marital act.

All of these NFP classes and suggestions are great, but that requires my wife to be somewhat interested. She already thinks it is ridiculous to buy a $200 fertility monitor. I’m at a loss and really struggling with what God wants me to do.

Thank you for all the replies.

 

[Xantippe]

Some say I shouldn’t withhold, others say I should propose that she uses BC. If the Church is what She says She is and I’m not supposed to use BC and we are not open to life then I’m supposed to abstain. At least that is my understanding.

Some will get on here and say that I should just cave and not withhold either, but then I’m the biggest hypocrite imaginable and I’d be purposely turning away from God every time we engaged in the marital act.

All of these NFP classes and suggestions are great, but that requires my wife to be somewhat interested. She already thinks it is ridiculous to buy a $200 fertility monitor. I’m at a loss and really struggling with what God wants me to do.

Thank you for all the replies.

Do you have a birthday coming up? Tell her that’s what you want for your birthday. Or if that’s too far off, save your fun money or mad money until you have enough to cover it. Or work extra.

There are lots of options. Demonstrate to her that 1) this is important to you and 2) you are willing to sacrifice your comforts.

 

[St_Pancake]

Some say I shouldn’t withhold, others say I should propose that she uses BC. If the Church is what She says She is and I’m not supposed to use BC and we are not open to life then I’m supposed to abstain. At least that is my understanding.

Some will get on here and say that I should just cave and not withhold either, but then I’m the biggest hypocrite imaginable and I’d be purposely turning away from God every time we engaged in the marital act.

All of these NFP classes and suggestions are great, but that requires my wife to be somewhat interested. She already thinks it is ridiculous to buy a $200 fertility monitor. I’m at a loss and really struggling with what God wants me to do.

Thank you for all the replies.

Here is a similar question and answer from Fr. Vincent Serpa from this website. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=884781&highlight=wife+using+birth+control

 

[Xantippe]

Some say I shouldn’t withhold, others say I should propose that she uses BC. If the Church is what She says She is and I’m not supposed to use BC and we are not open to life then I’m supposed to abstain. At least that is my understanding.

Some will get on here and say that I should just cave and not withhold either, but then I’m the biggest hypocrite imaginable and I’d be purposely turning away from God every time we engaged in the marital act.

All of these NFP classes and suggestions are great, but that requires my wife to be somewhat interested. She already thinks it is ridiculous to buy a $200 fertility monitor. I’m at a loss and really struggling with what God wants me to do.

Thank you for all the replies.

You are not free to propose birth control or be involved in its use. But if she chooses to use birth control that does not require your cooperation, then you are free to have normal marital relations (assuming you now and then express your preferences).

Best wishes!

 

[LongingSoul]

We are each responsible for our own actions even in marriage. Now that you have been touched by the grace of God and desire to follow the teachings of the Church… you have to go with your conscience. You cannot force your wife to do anything against her will so that if she chooses to contracept herself, that is up to her. You are not forced by Church teaching to withhold sex because of her choices. In her own time she will perhaps accept Gods grace also.

Just let her know that you will not do anything to cause contraception but what she does is between her and God. That puts the responsibility onto her without implicating you. We cannot control others journey.