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SedesDomi
Guest
Yin and Yang seem mutually incompatible too, but within the Yin is the Yang, and within the Yang is the Yin.
But the author of the book addresses all of these incompatibilities.
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But the author of the book addresses all of these incompatibilities.
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dyluck
Guest
Amen!!! no-one can know the father except through the Son… No one can come to the father exept through the son and without the holy spirit convicting and motivating your life as christ lives in you… you cannot walk in the footsteps of Christ as a regenrated new man.
The bible is all you need in this life to sustain your Christian life. Faith comes from hearing the word of God, not the words of Buddah or any-other.
I implore you, do not turn to new-age mystics, modern day sociology, phychology or any of that nonsense… the bible is all you need.
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rossum
Guest
I have not read the book itself, just reviews and comments. It appears to me that Professor Knitter is trying to use aspects of the Buddhist approach and attitude to life and living - the Path - rather than trying to graft Buddhist theory onto Christianity.
The former is a worthwhile enterprise; both Buddhists and Christians regard such people as Jesus and Francis of Assisi as worthy of emulation. The latter is, as you point out, not really practical.
rossum
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
That leaves the Noble Eightfold Path, & much else:
- [http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html (http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html)
The reason I think Buddhism is valuable for Catholicism is that all good is not given to the Church alone - if there are “seeds of the Word” in the world at large, maybe they can be found in Buddhism as well as in (say) Hinduism.
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SedesDomi
Guest
Here’s a representative sample of the author’s basic stance:
Understood in this way, the uniqueness of Jesus becomes an energy that does not exclude others; indeed, it includes and is open to others. Again, as in marriage or a deeply committed relationship, the happier, the more satisfied, the more secure I am in my relationship with my partner the freer I am, the more enabled I feel, to appreciate and be enriched by other friends. Philosophically we can say that the uniqueness of Jesus, far from being exclusive, is a complementary or relational uniqueness. By its very nature, it is able to, and it needs to, relate with others, engage them, learn from them, challenge them. As I have truly experienced over the past years, being a “disciple of Christ” has enabled me, I can even say “called” me, to become a friend of Buddha. This is the meaning of the profound and encouraging statement of my good friend John B. Cobb, Jr.: “Jesus is the Way that is open to other Ways.” [123-124]
Understood in this way, the uniqueness of Jesus becomes an energy that does not exclude others; indeed, it includes and is open to others. Again, as in marriage or a deeply committed relationship, the happier, the more satisfied, the more secure I am in my relationship with my partner the freer I am, the more enabled I feel, to appreciate and be enriched by other friends. Philosophically we can say that the uniqueness of Jesus, far from being exclusive, is a complementary or relational uniqueness. By its very nature, it is able to, and it needs to, relate with others, engage them, learn from them, challenge them. As I have truly experienced over the past years, being a “disciple of Christ” has enabled me, I can even say “called” me, to become a friend of Buddha. This is the meaning of the profound and encouraging statement of my good friend John B. Cobb, Jr.: “Jesus is the Way that is open to other Ways.” [123-124]
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dyluck
Guest
God is a jealous God… You want to esteem buddha?
My goodness… Esteeming other gods, man-made ideologies that are sending people to hell and adopt them into Christianity? They have absolutly nothing to do with God… Come on… Guys, this doesn’t frusterate you?.
Listen to yourselves speak here. Buddha has something to offer the Bride of Christ???
Is the bride so unfaithfull or is she true to the word of God, true to what God has instituted?
We do not need anything else other then God. If you are looking elsewhere to support your faith, you should re-evaluate who truly is your master.
My goodness… Esteeming other gods, man-made ideologies that are sending people to hell and adopt them into Christianity? They have absolutly nothing to do with God… Come on… Guys, this doesn’t frusterate you?.
Listen to yourselves speak here. Buddha has something to offer the Bride of Christ???
Is the bride so unfaithfull or is she true to the word of God, true to what God has instituted?
We do not need anything else other then God. If you are looking elsewhere to support your faith, you should re-evaluate who truly is your master.
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rossum
Guest
Jesus instructs Christians to love all of their fellow men. The Buddha was a man. Why shouldn’t Christians love and esteem their fellow man the Buddha?
The Buddha was not a god, though I will grant that some do treat him as such.
It is said that soon after his enlightenment the Buddha passed a man on the road who was struck by the Buddha’s extraordinary radiance and peaceful presence. The man stopped and asked,
“My friend, what are you? Are you a celestial being or a god?”
“No,” said the Buddha.
“Well, then, are you some kind of magician or wizard?”
Again the Buddha answered, “No.”
“Are you a man?”
“No.”
“Well, my friend, then what are you?”
The Buddha replied, “I am awake.”
Please do have a look at what you are saying sends someone to hell:Love others as you love yourself. - Bhadramayakaravyakarana sutra 91.
Hate is not overcome by hate;
by love alone is hate appeased.
This is an ancient law. - Dhammapada 1:5
Neither in the sky nor in mid-ocean,
nor in a cave in the mountains,
is there a place where a man
can escape his evil deed. - Dhammapada 9:12
To avoid all evil,
to cultivate good,
and to cleanse one’s mind.
This is the teaching of the Buddhas. - Dhammapada 14:5
Why would I want to follow a God who disagreed with what the Buddha said above?
rossum
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tomarin
Guest
I would not say Buddhism has nothing to teach us. I think it’s a worthwhile object of study in and of itself. But whether learning more about it will make one a better Christian – I suppose I will need to read the book to evaluate the logic of that argument.
We have sin and they have attachment. We have resurrection whereas they have breaking the cycle of rebirth. We have God’s love and they have, well, I’m not sure what the equivalent for them is. I find the differences stark. I’m not saying Buddhism is bad, or not worthy of study, just simply very different, and perhaps not translatable into Christian terms (though as I said I’ll have to give the book a chance to make its case).
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josephdavid
Guest
Sounds like an interesting read. I will have to look into this further.
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dyluck
Guest
“Are you a man?”
Buddah’s answer: “No.”
His reply was “I am awake” - This does not imply he is a man as he just answered he is not a man.
Rossum, please understand, those concepts and moral belief is like what we believe and you may find similarities in buddism that you do in Christianity; however, herin is agreeing to adopt thinking and practices that are not institued in the Christian Bible. So if you trust God to institue His infallible word, would not need the backing of other belief systems (buddism in this case). According to our bible, the only way to God is through Christ, whom died, suffered the concequences of our sin upon himself so that we might be justified before God and then rose from the dead.
Which then leads me to ask the question. If you are buddist, why are you on a Christian forum?
Lastly, I have to ask this since you are on this forum:
How is is possible for you to be perfect and blameless before the eyes of God on your own power? How is it, you move on to what buddist’s believe is a better life by your own ability?
I ask this, because if you truly believe your god is infinite, how is it then, that your good deeds are enough? If God is infinite in justice, how is it that you can be justified when you know as well as I do that no matter how devote monk you have, not one is without blame? Dare I say not even the “man” Buddah.
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SedesDomi
Guest
If you’re Protestant Reformed, then why are you on a Catholic forum?
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rossum
Guest
The Buddha was born a man and was a man until his enlightenment at age 35. His answer is a pun. The Sanskrit root “budh”, means ‘awake’. The Buddha is the “Awakened One”.
I cannot see a great deal of difference:* Love your neighbour as yourself - Jesus.
- Love others as you love yourself - The Buddha.
I do not trust God. Firstly He, by His own account, has killed a great many living beings and ordered more living beings to be killed. The Buddha has far less blood on his hands. Secondly, the Brahmajala sutta applies here; God is mistaken and not to be trusted in everything.
Are you saying that the power of God to save men is limited by the speed at which Christian missionaries could travel? An Australian born in 1000 CE would not have heard of Christianity or Jesus. Could God have saved that Australian? If no then your God is not omnipotent, as claimed. If yes, then the name of “Jesus” is not required, since that Australian never ever heard that word or what it means.
I started here to join in the evolution - creation debate. I was a science/maths teacher so I am directly interested in attempts to get creationist nonsense forced into the science curriculum in schools. Where a thread has Buddhism as part of the topic, I may well also join that thread.
I am neither perfect nor blameless. I will suffer for all my wrong actions and be happy for my good ones. Buddhism has no concept of sin, but it also lacks the concept of forgiveness of sin; if you do the crime then you do the time. That tends to make Buddhists very careful of how they act - there are no “Get out of Hell Free” cards in Buddhism.
Buddhism is not an Abrahamic religion; there is no infinite God, or infinite gods, in Buddhism. All of the many gods are finite and subject to karma just like the rest of us. Good deeds are not enough - that quote I gave also included “to cleanse one’s mind” - that is meditation. Good deeds are neccessary, but not sufficient. The way to nirvana is through meditation. Your meditation will not be correct if it is not built on a foundation of good deeds and the avoidance of evil deeds. I usually point Christians who want to try meditation to Saying the Jesus Prayer which is a form of meditation from within the Christian tradition.
You are applying concepts from an Abrahamic religion to Buddhism, where they do not work. I know that Buddhism works because the Buddha became enlightened. Since his time many other Buddhists have become enlightened. There are enlightened Buddhists alive today. Buddhism worked then and it still works now. I have a reasonable expectation that it will work for me in future.
Enlightenment is not something that happens after you die, it happens during your life. The Buddha was enlightened at age 35, he died age 80. You do not even have to be a Buddhist to be enlightened; judging by his account of his experience at Polonnaruwa, Thomas Merton was probably enlightened before he died.
rossum
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OneTrueCathApos
Guest
Well, he is not a true Catholic in my opinion. Nothing will be looked upon if it is not of Christ. period.
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Deo_Volente
Guest
Grace & Peace!
I think that one of the worst religious mistakes one can commit as a Christian is to believe that Christ is a brand-name and that religion is somehow a form of brand loyalty.
If Christ is truly what he says he is–the Truth–then whenever we find Truth we know we have found Christ. There are, therefore, no competing Truths. When the Buddha teaches Truth, he teaches Christ. That’s the long and the short of it, from a Christian perspective. We can say that “nothing will be looked upon if it is not Christ,” but we must understand that that does not so much exclude what will be seen, but actually includes much more than we can imagine. Our Christ is not a provincial Christ. He is not a mere tribal deity.
Which is all to say that when the reaction to the statement, “we can learn from other religions and other peoples,” is “No! They’re all false heathen unbelievers!” then I fear we’re missing the boat entirely. I’m so grateful to my Taoist, Buddhist and Hindu brothers and sisters–reading their scriptures has taught me a lot about my own religion and about my Lord Christ. There are sections of the Bhagavad Gita or the Upanishads which read like they could have been written by one of the Desert Fathers or a medieval saint. A comparison between the Buddha’s Fire Sermon and one of the Desert Fathers’ admonitions to a pupil to become a living Flame is a lesson in distinguishing between the fire of empty desire and the illuminating (dare I say enlightening?) Fire of the Spirit. John of the Cross’ “Todo y Nada” would probably make more sense to Buddhists than it does to many Christians, even considering that the Buddhist Nirvana/nothing and the Christian Divine Nothingness are not exactly the same concept. But they’re surprisingly close.
Finally, if we expect other religions to operate according to ours, then I think we’ll find ourselves very confused. The Onely and Trinal God of Christianity is not a Buddhist deity. When Buddhist scriptures speak of divinities, they don’t have in mind a critique of the Christian Godhead. For a Christian to evaluate Buddhism as if it were a Christian heresy is as ludicrous and unprofitable an exercise as a Buddhist evaluating Christianity on Buddhist terms. Personally, I find it illuminating to think of my conception of God when I read Buddhist critiques of deities. My conceptions, my pre-conceived notions, my image-idols are often the things that are getting in the way of a real relationship with the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is grace and mercy! Deo gratias!
I think that one of the worst religious mistakes one can commit as a Christian is to believe that Christ is a brand-name and that religion is somehow a form of brand loyalty.
If Christ is truly what he says he is–the Truth–then whenever we find Truth we know we have found Christ. There are, therefore, no competing Truths. When the Buddha teaches Truth, he teaches Christ. That’s the long and the short of it, from a Christian perspective. We can say that “nothing will be looked upon if it is not Christ,” but we must understand that that does not so much exclude what will be seen, but actually includes much more than we can imagine. Our Christ is not a provincial Christ. He is not a mere tribal deity.
Which is all to say that when the reaction to the statement, “we can learn from other religions and other peoples,” is “No! They’re all false heathen unbelievers!” then I fear we’re missing the boat entirely. I’m so grateful to my Taoist, Buddhist and Hindu brothers and sisters–reading their scriptures has taught me a lot about my own religion and about my Lord Christ. There are sections of the Bhagavad Gita or the Upanishads which read like they could have been written by one of the Desert Fathers or a medieval saint. A comparison between the Buddha’s Fire Sermon and one of the Desert Fathers’ admonitions to a pupil to become a living Flame is a lesson in distinguishing between the fire of empty desire and the illuminating (dare I say enlightening?) Fire of the Spirit. John of the Cross’ “Todo y Nada” would probably make more sense to Buddhists than it does to many Christians, even considering that the Buddhist Nirvana/nothing and the Christian Divine Nothingness are not exactly the same concept. But they’re surprisingly close.
Finally, if we expect other religions to operate according to ours, then I think we’ll find ourselves very confused. The Onely and Trinal God of Christianity is not a Buddhist deity. When Buddhist scriptures speak of divinities, they don’t have in mind a critique of the Christian Godhead. For a Christian to evaluate Buddhism as if it were a Christian heresy is as ludicrous and unprofitable an exercise as a Buddhist evaluating Christianity on Buddhist terms. Personally, I find it illuminating to think of my conception of God when I read Buddhist critiques of deities. My conceptions, my pre-conceived notions, my image-idols are often the things that are getting in the way of a real relationship with the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is grace and mercy! Deo gratias!
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