Witnessing Liturgical Abuse in Latin Rite parish

[btellcatholic]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I am in a Diocese where there are no Eastern Rite parishes (I am an Armenian Catholic). What would be the prudent thing to do if I witness an instance of liturgical abuse in a Latin Rite parish since I am not of that Rite?

Thank you!

 

[Carlan]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I am in a Diocese where there are no Eastern Rite parishes (I am an Armenian Catholic). What would be the prudent thing to do if I witness an instance of liturgical abuse in a Latin Rite parish since I am not of that Rite?

Thank you!

Since you are not Latin Rite, what was it you concidered abuse? We could then, perhaps, make a suggestion.:shrugeace, Carlan

 

[Joe_5859]

If you really feel it’s something you must pursue, then I would follow the steps outlined in Catholics United for the Faith’s Effective Lay Witness Protocol. This gives a good summary of how to effectively resolve disputes within the Church. I don’t believe it would matter that you’re not a Latin Rite Catholic since that is where you go for Mass.

 

[btellcatholic]

Thank you for your reply. Just to give you some examples, at one parish, I witnessed the following: 1) use of inclusive language, e.g. “my sisters and my brothers,” 2) use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion when there are only 100 or so people for daily Mass, 3) during a penance service at this parish, part of the examination of conscience including the whether we had failed to advance the cause of “sexual equality.” (The statement is ambiguous).

At another parish, there is a Eucharistic Adoration service known as EXALT, where there is “praise and worship music.” At this parish, there was a woman assisting the priest with what is otherwise referred to as Benediction and Devotion and she was barefoot. At one time, I believe she was acting a thurifer during the service.

Thanks again for your assistance.

 

[choy]

Thank you for your reply. Just to give you some examples, at one parish, I witnessed the following:
use of inclusive language during the Liturgy, e.g. "my sisters and my brothers.

thats standard

you mean like, “my brothers and sisters, pray that our sacrifice…”

thats in the Missal itself

 

[Joe_5859]

Thank you for your reply. Just to give you some examples, at one parish, I witnessed the following:
use of inclusive language during the Liturgy, e.g. "my sisters and my brothers.

Was this during one of the prayers of the Mass, or just during some informal, impromptu opening or closing remarks?

In any case, to be frank, if this is the worst of it, I doubt your complaints will make it very far.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thank you for your reply. Just to give you some examples, at one parish, I witnessed the following: 1) use of inclusive language, e.g. “my sisters and my brothers,” 2) use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion when there are only 100 or so people for daily Mass, 3) during a penance service at this parish, part of the examination of conscience including the whether we had failed to advance the cause of “sexual equality.” (The statement is ambiguous).

At another parish, there is a Eucharistic Adoration service known as EXALT, where there is “praise and worship music.” At this parish, there was a woman assisting the priest with what is otherwise referred to as Benediction and Devotion and she was barefoot. At one time, I believe she was acting a thurifer during the service.

Thanks again for your assistance.

Okay, I see that you elaborated a bit more.

I still don’t think you’ll get very far. As choy said, there are some places in the Missal where “brothers and sisters” is the language that is used. This is why one really has to do their homework before taking such complaints to the pastor. We would look pretty silly if we tell the pastor he’s using the wrong words and then he pulls out the Missal to show us that those are, in fact, the words that are there.

The use on EMsHC is not forbidden, thus, it becomes a judgment call. The local bishop is probably going to be more apt to side with his priest’s judgment than a parishioner’s perception (unless the priest is going severely overkill by having 12 EMsHC for 100 people, for example). Perhaps he just wants to distribute under both species? Or perhaps he is trying to work under time constraints that you are not considering (trying to make sure Mass is over in a timely manner so people can get to work, for example). You could try asking the priest (in a non-accusatory manner, of course) why he does this.

That “sexual equality” phrase is a bit ambiguous (not to mention peculiar!).

I don’t really know the ins-and-outs as far as the rubrics for Eucharistic Adoration, so I can’t really say if what you have described constitutes an abuse or not.

You could certainly bring up these complaints to the pastor. Make sure you are 100% certain on what the liturgical books and documents say, though. There’s no need to be confrontational, of course. But if you approach the pastor as someone who is looking for help in understanding these things, he might be more open to your concerns.

 

[Carlan]

Thank you for your reply. Just to give you some examples, at one parish, I witnessed the following: 1) use of inclusive language, e.g. “my sisters and my brothers,” 2) use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion when there are only 100 or so people for daily Mass, 3) during a penance service at this parish, part of the examination of conscience including the whether we had failed to advance the cause of “sexual equality.” (The statement is ambiguous).

At another parish, there is a Eucharistic Adoration service known as EXALT, where there is “praise and worship music.” At this parish, there was a woman assisting the priest with what is otherwise referred to as Benediction and Devotion and she was barefoot. At one time, I believe she was acting a thurifer during the service.

Thanks again for your assistance.

At the beginning of the penitential Rite it can be said, My brothers and Sisters, to prepare our selves to celebrate the sacred mysteries, let us call to mind our sins…
At the discretion of the priest,other words which seem more suitable under the circumstances may be used, such as friends, dearly beloved, brethren. What is abusive in that?
In all my years I have never experienced any of the kind of things you consider abusive during devotions of any kind. When you are offended you do have recourse, talk to the pastor.Peace, CArlan

 

[puzzleannie]

Thank you for your reply. Just to give you some examples, at one parish, I witnessed the following: 1) use of inclusive language, e.g. “my sisters and my brothers,” 2) use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion when there are only 100 or so people for daily Mass, 3) during a penance service at this parish, part of the examination of conscience including the whether we had failed to advance the cause of “sexual equality.” (The statement is ambiguous).

At another parish, there is a Eucharistic Adoration service known as EXALT, where there is “praise and worship music.” At this parish, there was a woman assisting the priest with what is otherwise referred to as Benediction and Devotion and she was barefoot. At one time, I believe she was acting a thurifer during the service.

Thanks again for your assistance.

none of these are liturgical abuses per se although
the first thing to do is be very sure of your ground.
if your bishop has allowed females to be altar servers there is no reason one of them cannot handle the incense.

 

[malphono]

I am in a Diocese where there are no Eastern Rite parishes (I am an Armenian Catholic). What would be the prudent thing to do if I witness an instance of liturgical abuse in a Latin Rite parish since I am not of that Rite?

As others have said, what’s been described aren’t really “abuses” per-se, but at the same time I fully understand why one (particularly an Oriental or Easterner) might not be thrilled with such practices.

It would appear that you’re somewhat “new” to this diocese; perhaps there’s a church where the EF is offered? If so, I would suggest you assist there. If not, it seems to me there’s little to be done.

 

[ljubim]

Thank you for your reply. Just to give you some examples, at one parish, I witnessed the following: 1) use of inclusive language, e.g. “my sisters and my brothers,” 2) use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion when there are only 100 or so people for daily Mass, 3) during a penance service at this parish, part of the examination of conscience including the whether we had failed to advance the cause of “sexual equality.” (The statement is ambiguous).

At another parish, there is a Eucharistic Adoration service known as EXALT, where there is “praise and worship music.” At this parish, there was a woman assisting the priest with what is otherwise referred to as Benediction and Devotion and she was barefoot. At one time, I believe she was acting a thurifer during the service.

Thanks again for your assistance.

I am so sorry you had to experience that I’m Latin Rite and have had to put up with this kind of stuff for so long, because things like this happen everywhere the bishop might ignore your letter, but some might actually send a reply, maybe explaining it away. The rare, wonderful bishop would do something about it, so it is always worth a try. One of the recent documents (Redemtionis Sacramentum) outlined that all faithful have the right to report abuses, even if we’re out of town, out of country, and I imagine out of your Rite

I’ve never seen a woman with incense but I have also been to adoration where a band played. It was inescapable since I was on a retreat, but I was really emotionally scarred and disturbed. I never wrote because it seemed that there was enough of a loophole in the GIRM and Church documents for them to do what they please with music at adoration, because the Church has not strongly enough defined ‘sacred music.’

Next time you’d like to visit the Roman Rite, find a Traditional Latin Mass. Probably since you’re eastern you’re used to a drive to get to DL, and it tends to be the same for TLMs. You can put in your zipcode at the Latin Mass Network website and find one… every diocese should have at least one. I’ve not yet been to a DL (hoping to very soon!) but from what I have heard you’ll find a similar level of reverence and of tradition there.

God Bless,
Ljubim

 

[awatkins69]

Unfortunately, there isn’t much we can do about things like this. The stuff you describe is pretty much standard procedure. In fact, relatively speaking, you’ve got it made. What I do if I have to go to an abusive Novus Ordo Mass is pray the Rosary during Mass and try not to concentrate on the abuses going on around me. Maybe you could bring your Chotki with you instead if you like. Try to find a Traditional Latin Mass. They are (usually) not abusive. You may be able to find a reverent English Mass, but they are few and far between.