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twf
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St. Paul said it is a woman’s first responsibility, not her only responsibility.
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GiftofMercy
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I maintain that Fr Rippergers you tubes should be watched in their entirety on this topic, and his responses to his critics.
In that case absolutely no clergy can have an opinion if they dont receive it directly from God.
This is a Priest in good standing in Our Church. Who works as an exorcist, educator, and parish priest.
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twf
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Fr James Martin is also in good standing with Rome. Point being there is a huge spectrum of opinions among priests in good standing. That by itself doesn’t guarantee the prudence of an opinion.
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GiftofMercy
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I have not watched or read or listened to what Father James Martin has to say on any topic. I am not going to comment on sensationalist and alarmist headlines of Priests in good standing. There are plenty of those both on CAF and on news services and subject to informal conferences on this Priest.
Again , have you watched the youtubes of Father Chad Ripperger on this or any topic?
Prudence of an opinion would dictate this happens.
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I agree, including for myself,
except that in reality the housewifes who have no longer children at home, or have older children who are in school are often very involved in volunteer work in their communities, and even may have learder positions.
Housewifes with children in school are also often very implicated in their school animation.
Association, charitable work, and even parishes in many areas are almost exclusively run by “inactive people”, that means retired people and sometimes housewifes.
except that in reality the housewifes who have no longer children at home, or have older children who are in school are often very involved in volunteer work in their communities, and even may have learder positions.
Housewifes with children in school are also often very implicated in their school animation.
Association, charitable work, and even parishes in many areas are almost exclusively run by “inactive people”, that means retired people and sometimes housewifes.
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twf
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Perhaps you could direct me to his reply to his critics?
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twf
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Is that not “working outside the home”? Just because its unpaid doesn’t mean it isn’t “work”. I’m on the board of a not for profit organization. I don’t get paid a penny, but its still a lot of work. So is the traditionalist issue with women obtaining a “paid” job as opposed to actually doing “work” outside of the home? The whole premise of this thread was whether the teaching of Fr. Ripperger et al, that men should work two jobs if necessary to avoid women working outside the home, applies to women who don’t have children to tend.
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Catholic tradition, social and church teaching has always valued charitable work, volunteer work and implication on the society for the common good. Clergy inisits on it.
As a consequence, Catholics tend to be very implicated outside the home. And Catholic housewifes much more.
I think that Catholic countries could have a much more culture of volunteer work than Protestant one.
Maybe the Traditionalists are less implicated in the larger society than others Catholics, because they tend to spend their time and energy in their family and like traditionalist mind circles.
What is the difference with a paid job is that you do it for the money, for the career, or even for obligation when you don’t like your job or find it unethical. Volunteer work is done because the volunteer think it is the good think to do. A volunteer person is not bound to schedules or any obligation, even if in reality there can be lot of moral pressure. And the volunteer work can be less time consumming.
As a consequence, Catholics tend to be very implicated outside the home. And Catholic housewifes much more.
I think that Catholic countries could have a much more culture of volunteer work than Protestant one.
Maybe the Traditionalists are less implicated in the larger society than others Catholics, because they tend to spend their time and energy in their family and like traditionalist mind circles.
What is the difference with a paid job is that you do it for the money, for the career, or even for obligation when you don’t like your job or find it unethical. Volunteer work is done because the volunteer think it is the good think to do. A volunteer person is not bound to schedules or any obligation, even if in reality there can be lot of moral pressure. And the volunteer work can be less time consumming.
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twf
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Those are all valid points, and I certainly agree with the inherent value of volunteer work. But where do traditionalists draw the line? The ideal woman of Proverbs 31 is certainly generating income for the family. Medieval Catholic peasant women worked in the same sense that the men did (not necessarily the same tasks, but both sexes tended to work around the homestead, generating income or goods necessary for the family’s livelihood). It seems to me the line between “women should not work outside the home” and the many, many examples of very real “work” that Catholic women have always done isn’t as black and white as traditionalist seem to think.
Yes, it is true that housewifes in general (in the exclusion of some tight circles) have nowdays less work the women previousely!
The industrial revolution have changed the place of work for the average population - from work to factories/exterior. The domestic work is now less harder than half a century before because of material things such as machine to wash the laundry, electricity.
I don’t know and can’t speak for all traditionalists. From my very little experience of Traditionalism, mothers are at home. But it is not that significative because their family tend to be large, their socio economical status priviledge or be military families.
For myself, as a stay at home mother, as a ordinary Catholic I am more and more an exception in the area where I live.
The industrial revolution have changed the place of work for the average population - from work to factories/exterior. The domestic work is now less harder than half a century before because of material things such as machine to wash the laundry, electricity.
I don’t know and can’t speak for all traditionalists. From my very little experience of Traditionalism, mothers are at home. But it is not that significative because their family tend to be large, their socio economical status priviledge or be military families.
For myself, as a stay at home mother, as a ordinary Catholic I am more and more an exception in the area where I live.
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GiftofMercy
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Its on youtube along with the original discussion . I watch him quite a bit and enjoy quite a bit of his presentations.
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Peeps
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I wish I could like this a hundred times!
YES! Boys definitely need a father who is ACTIVELY fathering them–taking them on outings, playing sports with them (as they are able), teaching them how to cook, clean, do home and car maintenance and repairs, respect girls and women, and of course, helping them with their schoolwork.
And girls need a dad to do a lot of the same things, PLUS demonstrate how they should expect to be treated by men–with respect!
My husband’s father worked two jobs (school teacher during day, and factory 2nd shift worker in the evening), and my husband hated this and constantly longed to have his dad at home. He vowed he would never do this to his children, and he didn’t–our daughters were raised by their daddy as much as they were raised by me.
F.r Ripperger’s advice is his own personal opinion, and no one is under any obligation to abide by it .
I do think that if a mother of young children can stay home until the children are of school age, and can raise the children instead of turning them over to a daycare babysitter, that everyone in the family will benefit, even if the family is woefully short of money for a few years. Little children don’t require a lot of material goods and they don’t care if they house doesn’t look “Property Brothers Updated.”
Obviously, if there are health care expenses or other bills that the husband can’t afford, then the wife may end up working to make ends meet. I know quite a few women who work at my hospital because they can get health care benefits and their husband can’t.
We all have to do what is necessary to care for our families.
But if working women total up the little bit of actual money that they are actually bringing to the family budget AFTER they have paid for daycare and the expenses that working brings (car maint, gas, work clothing or uniforms, etc.), they might find that staying home is more sensible because they have TIME to do the things that stretch their husband’s paycheck; e.g., plan and make cheaper meals, grow a vege garden, etc.).
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Peeps
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Wow. Washing up 3 times a day?! Really?
Cleaning?
Receiving friends?! Where do these “friends” come from? I don’t know anyone, even older women in my Catholic parish, who “receive friends” in their homes on a regular basis. I grew up on a farm, and yes, my grandma regularly received friends and visited her friends after the chores were done. But she died back in the 1990s. My brother still farms and this lifestyle is extinct now. Friends in the country meet in the evening at the McDonald’s in the nearby small town–around 40 of them every evening. No one “receives friends” in their home anymore, do they?
I’m not saying this folksy lifestyle is extinct. I just think it doesn’t match what most of us live day to day.
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Peeps
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I just learned that Kimberly Hahn (apologist Scott Hahn’s beautiful wife) is a councilwoman in Steubenville, Ohio! Lucky people in that town!
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TC3033
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That’s pretty much it…that a man should work 2 jobs before his wife leaves the house to take one… Since you watch his stuff so much, I think you knew that. I can’t find the video, but it’s been posted on here before and I watched that particular 4-10 min snippet a couple of times because I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.
Also:
- My wife and I are sinners as we utilize daycare.
- She’s a sinner for not always “being at the ready”, but that means nothing for guys because we never say no.
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QwertyGirl
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I agree it is good for a parent to be home when kids are young. But it can be either the mother or the father. Either will work, as long as they want to be there.
My husband and I swapped duties back and forth when my child was young. Sometimes he was home, and sometimes I was home. At two I enrolled her in pre-school because I could see she was highly social (much more so than me) and needed the interaction with other kids and adults. It was half a block away and I popped in and volunteered frequently, as did her dad. She went three mornings a week.
You make excellent points in your post.
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TC3033
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Personally, we wanted to get our kids into daycare. We believe in early social actions and learning those interaction skills prior to starting school.
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twf
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That is DEFINITELY working outside the home.
Does Professor Hahn work two full time jobs?
Does Professor Hahn work two full time jobs?
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GiftofMercy
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He says much more then that. He gives a lot of reasons for his opinion.
Just google him and go through his youtubes till you find them. And watch the entire thing, not just a small snippet. I would have to do the same thing to find the links for you.
If you cannot find them , I will spend the time later this weekend and get some links. I enjoy his talks, they are interesting and informative.
Again watch his youtubes on these things before passing judgement. I can get the links later if you have not seen the
youtubes.
I have never seen anything from him about your second point. In fact I have seen him comment much the same as people on CAF do about not denying your spouse without good reason because 2 become 1 and the husband too should not be denying the wife, without good reason.
About point one, he is not a fan of childcare.However he would never call anyone a sinner for using it. Do you have a quote from him that says people using childcare are sinners?
Or is that more alarmist headlines from people who would seek to discredit this Exorcist Parish Priest in good standing with Rome. There are plenty of those kicking around the internet.
There are plenty of people not fans of daycare. Plenty of grandparents and relatives care for youngsters on a daily basis. I know a couple who care for their great grand children daily.
Social skills can be learnt by other means. Childcare is not the only way.
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TC3033
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I did…I watched almost the entire thing.
Same video about men needing to work 2+ jobs and daycare being the work of demons.
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