WOHOOO! Annulment case accepted!

[SerraSemper]

Congrats on reaching this step! Thank you for your honesty and courage in going forth with the process to help you know your marital status. I am sorry there are so many naysayers here who should be rejoicing that someone is following the steps the Church asks for people who don’t believe their marriage was valid. And yes, contrary to what some people may think, abuse can be proof of invalidity, depending on the circumstances. I ought to know. I am a canon lawyer and worked on hundreds of cases as a judge.

 

[SerraSemper]

You’re “excited” over an annulment? Even if your first marriage was indeed invalid, I am disgusted. That is definitely not something that merits a reaction like yours.

There is no scandal in pursuing a declaration of nullity, getting a divorce if one is innocent, or using God given rights to know the truth about one’s marital status. Rather, the scandal is in the physical abuse that led to the annulment seeking in the first place! The OP has every right to be excited that her case will be adjudicated and her marital status examined by the Church. I am disgusted with your reaction. You clearly do not know how difficult it can be for people to follow God’s laws and do things the right way.

 

[PrayRosary]

Why does it take so long?

 

[mellowcalico]

There is a very detailed answer here as to why they take as long as they do:

catholicexchange.com/why-do-marriage-annulments-take-so-long/

But basically it’s a long and cautious process. The Church just doesn’t rubber stamp and make a marriage null and void. There are witnesses, interviews, investigations, and two full trials (the petition is actually judged twice by two separate tribunals in two different diocese). The annulment process is designed to get to the truth and that just takes time and investigation.

 

[freiabereinsam]

There is no scandal in pursuing a declaration of nullity, getting a divorce if one is innocent, or using God given rights to know the truth about one’s marital status. Rather, the scandal is in the physical abuse that led to the annulment seeking in the first place! The OP has every right to be excited that her case will be adjudicated and her marital status examined by the Church. I am disgusted with your reaction. You clearly do not know how difficult it can be for people to follow God’s laws and do things the right way.

Of course I have nothing against pursuing an annulment in the abstract (if the annulment is justified; I don’t know if this one is). However, I stand by what I said about the OP’s reaction. Woohooing over an annulment is like woohooing over someone’s death.

Also, physical abuse is not grounds for annulment.

 

[bernadettefaith]

I wouldn’t normally be excited over something like this but can definitely understand why OP is excited given the circumstances. Good luck!

 

[SerraSemper]

Of course I have nothing against pursuing an annulment in the abstract (if the annulment is justified; I don’t know if this one is). However, I stand by what I said about the OP’s reaction. Woohooing over an annulment is like woohooing over someone’s death.

Also, physical abuse is not grounds for annulment.

It can be appropriate to rejoice over someone’s death. Did you know that there were Masses of thanksgiving for winning in battle? It is not wrong to rejoice in a tyrant’s death. Quit being simplistic.

Actually, physical abuse can be an indication for an annulment. I have rendered affirmative decisions based solely on physical abuse because there are grounds that this can definitively prove. Since when did you get your degree in canon law?

Oh and how ridiculous is it to say it is only appropriate to pursue an annulment if an annulment is justified! So is it only appropriate to go to the ER if you DID have a heart attack as opposed to suspecting a heart attack?

Don’t be a sanctimonious pharisee. The OP is rejoicing at a good- she is exercising her rights and she has overcome the first obstacle for an evaluation of her presumed marriage. Totally appropriate to be excited. Totally inappropriate for someone to be negative about this. The scandal is not the divorce and not the annulment but the sins that led to the divorce or annulment. There are annulments declared that were not the result of sin, BTW. Any human action is necessarily virtuous or vicious. It is really hard to prove that doing something lawful (pursuing an annulment) is vicious. It is not wrong in and of itself to pursue an annulment, and in many cases it can be morally obligatory.

 

[manualman]

… I am so excited!!!

Don’t mind the naysayers, they simply aren’t in your context.

Guys, imagine you were convicted of a crime, did your time and just now heard the click that signifies the outer door of the jailhouse port doors opening to the free world. It would be superhuman not to celebrate the end of one’s consequences.

God bless you for sticking it out and having the humility to go through the tribunal process. I hope it was both healing and freeing for you.

 

[MJJean]

OF course I can see where you are coming from. And I know nothing of the details. And honestly I don’t care to. My only point is that the title of the thread probably could have been thought through a little better.

Actually, I am ok with the title. It’s honest. That’s how I feel. I am thrilled that I will (eventually…triubunals move with the speed of glaciers) finally be totally free of a very dark and nightmarish relationship.

I don’t doubt that you suffered, and now we learn that chidlren have also suffered. (Another reason whoo hooo is inappropriate.
I want to point out that this is why the details do not matter. No matter how much of a son of a you know what someone is that has nothing to do with the validity of the marriage.
If the deciding factor was that someone treated someone awful then almost every marriage would be null.

For your piece of mind and future life. I hope there was something that did not make this a valid marriage. I really do.

One final question. And I know this will not end well. I know you will respond with something and I know there is no way this ends well for me in this discussion. But here is what I do not understand. The man tried to murder you and you are complaining that he was not involved with his kids for a while!?
Something does not add up.

But like I said, I don’t really care. I just thought the title was a little off color.

No, I totally understand that the abuse etc after the marriage has nothing to do with the validity of the marriage. The mention of some of those details was meant to help explain why I am so elated and why woohoo is indeed appropriate.

I also understand why some don’t get it. For an awful lot of people a marriage dying is a sad event and causes much pain. For me and some others, there was no actual marriage in the first place other than on paper. Nothing died. A marriage didn’t fail. We weren’t married to each other at all. We participated in a civil ceremony for the sake of legal requirement because we felt obligated to do so. We didn’t attempt to build some kind of life together nor did we share personal thoughts and feelings. Heck, we never even stopped dating other people. There was no intention for the marriage to be for life, for there to be any openness to children (both kids exist because birth control failed…one Pill baby that was born before the marriage and one condom baby born after) and certainly neither of us intended fidelity.

Feel free to ask any questions and I will do my best to explain.

Why am I ticked that he is not involved with the kids considering how violent he was with me?

1. My ex never physically harmed the children I have with him, the children he has with his current wife or the children he had before I met him. He is abusive to women ( I hear from family that he has hit his current wife a few times at least), but not kids.

Regardless of what went on between he and I, I also don’t believe in taking kids from their father unless he is a danger to them specifically. Danger to me, yes. Danger to his girlfriends and new wife, yes. Danger to the kids? No.

And the court, since he’d never laid a hand on the kids, saw fit to grant visitation. The judge did throw me a bone and list visitation as “reasonable and supervised” (supervisor being at my discretion), but I was still supposed to let him see the girls and have unlimited phone and mail contact.

1. The girls felt unloved and unwanted when he stopped seeing or calling them. As much as I absolutely despise my ex, he is their father and they love him as children do. To see them hurt because he was too busy doing his own thing to give them any kind of time and attention makes me see red. I was civil and allowed him access to the children and instead of even trying to be something of a father he just…bailed. Seeing my daughters with overnight bags packed, waiting for daddy to come, and seeing the pain when he didn’t show because he was “going out” made me want to snatch him up by the scruff, give him a good shake, and make him do right by them.

He made promises to the girls. He didn’t keep them. He told them he loved them and would always be there for them and then moved out of state within a couple months and didn’t even let anyone know he was leaving. Then he didn’t even bother to call or write.

1. Yes, I am ticked about child support as a form of caring and involvement, too. After the divorce he had no way of knowing if the kids had what they needed by his own choice. First, the girls have to do without some of the extra’s because he wasn’t contributing financially and moved so often the courts couldn’t keep up. Not to mention how difficult out of state enforcement is, especially when the man who owes support hasn’t worked in many years. Secondly, he claimed to love them. I believed he loved them, so did they. Part of loving a child is financial support. It’s the bare minimum. I couldn’t even point to a check and say “Look, Dad has some things he needs to work out. He needs to get his life straight and cannot be a part of your life for now, but he does care and is thinking about you.” All I could say was “I’m sorry.”

I have peace of mind on the matter now. I’m just waiting for the Church to make it official. The marriage was without a doubt invalid for a number of reasons.

 

[MJJean]

You’re “excited” over an annulment? Even if your first marriage was indeed invalid, I am disgusted. That is definitely not something that merits a reaction like yours.

Of course I have nothing against pursuing an annulment in the abstract (if the annulment is justified; I don’t know if this one is). However, I stand by what I said about the OP’s reaction. Woohooing over an annulment is like woohooing over someone’s death.

Also, physical abuse is not grounds for annulment.

Yes, I am excited. It’s been a long and hard road to get here. I went from foolish Pagan teen to mother to abused pagan or Atheist wife, to divorced and remarried and trying to find my way to realizing what I was missing and seeking was the Church to coming one blessed step closer to full healing and moving on with a lot less spiritual and psychological baggage. This is absolutely cause for excitement and happiness.

No, physical abuse itself is not grounds. But entering into a marriage due to feeling pressured to do so to legitimize a child, not intending the marriage to be a lifelong union and believing divorce could and would dissolve the marriage, literally discussing the future divorce the day of the ceremony, not intending fidelity and not intending to have any more children, and drugging oneself on the way to the courthouse in order to go through with it certainly are grounds.

As I said to Hoosier, this wasn’t a marriage. It was never intended to be. There is no sadness on either side due to it’s end. There is only sadness, at least on my side, that it happened in the first place.

 

[MJJean]

I wish you the best OP. I understand your feelings exactly. Prepare yourself for a long and trying process–but it’s worth it I think.

I understand the pain and limbo a divorced party can be left in. You did everything you throughout was right, tried to do the good thing, were betrayed, left, and now alone (there is no support system in the Church for those like us). Truly, it feels like being the black sheep of the flock… It’s like you are punished all over again and fellow Catholics who are supposed to be understanding and comforting end up coming across as judgmental. The irony is all the while you (and I) did and are doing everything the Church tells us to do.

While my marriage wasn’t abusive like yours, my husband cheated on me from the time we were engaged and throughout the marriage… with other men. Of course, I didn’t know at the time I married him. He eventually left me and is openly homosexual now.

It’s a long process OP and it’s trying. It can be lonely too. And you will run into harsh judgements. Just keep your head up and keep carrying that cross. For what it’s worth, I actually just got a letter saying the tribunal found my marriage null and void, but my Ex has 15 days to petition. He won’t. He hasn’t participated in the process at all. If he doesn’t, then it’s ratified within 2-3 months. So I am almost there. It’s been 18 months so far (3 years if you count the day my Ex left me).

By the way, praying to the Holy Mother gave me strength during this time. I am ashamed to admit near the end, after not hearing from the Tribunal for months, my faith started to waver and I stopped. Writing all this reminds me that I should again.

Thank you so much. Your post made me cry. And I am not the weepy woman sort! I have actually had amazing support from my pastor and the Sister who has been working with my family in RCIA. The only Catholics I have had be less than wonderful have been here. But that’s ok. It’s a good thing when people can express opinions and make you think and reevaluate.

Going over the many pages of questions on the annulment forms, talking with our pastor, and with folks here has lead me to ask questions, delve deep, seek the truth, and given me the chance to really do the right thing at long last. I thought I was doing the right thing by entering into a false marriage for the sake of a child, it was the biggest mistake I have ever made for me personally and for my babies (who are 20 and 14 and not really babies anymore) and it was a sin. But I did not know that then and knowing it now means I have a chance, through the grace of God and His Church, to make it right.

I offer sincere congratulations on your annulment. You’re at the home stretch! I am happy for you.

 

[MJJean]

There is no scandal in pursuing a declaration of nullity, getting a divorce if one is innocent, or using God given rights to know the truth about one’s marital status. Rather, the scandal is in the physical abuse that led to the annulment seeking in the first place! The OP has every right to be excited that her case will be adjudicated and her marital status examined by the Church. I am disgusted with your reaction. You clearly do not know how difficult it can be for people to follow God’s laws and do things the right way.

Thank you for your support. It means lot to me. I must say, though, that I am not the innocent party. There really is no innocent party. I was mistaken in my decision to marry and the reasoning behind it, in the sins I committed during that marriage, and in how I handled divorce and remarriage. I did everything wrong partly because I hadn’t found the Church or the wisdom of her teachings and partly because I was an emotional and psychological wreck.

It is difficult and knowing an experienced canon lawyer recognizes that gives me faith and hope. Its very hard to think you’ve put the past behind you only to realize you have to revisit it and resolve it in a new way through annulment. It is difficult to think you are married and then to discover that you are not …really married?..fully married?..married in the eyes of God and His Church. And it is very difficult to discover a faith and then not be able to participate in it fully until a final decision is rendered. Every Sunday I see people taking Communion and I am happy for them, sad for me that I cannot.

Don’t be a sanctimonious pharisee. The OP is rejoicing at a good- she is exercising her rights and she has overcome the first obstacle for an evaluation of her presumed marriage. Totally appropriate to be excited. Totally inappropriate for someone to be negative about this. The scandal is not the divorce and not the annulment but the sins that led to the divorce or annulment. There are annulments declared that were not the result of sin, BTW. Any human action is necessarily virtuous or vicious. It is really hard to prove that doing something lawful (pursuing an annulment) is vicious. It is not wrong in and of itself to pursue an annulment, and in many cases it can be morally obligatory.

Thank you again!

The true scandal was the false marriage in the first place and all of the sins committed on both sides both before and after. You are absolutely correct.

I also agree that pursuing the annulment is morally obligatory in my case. How can I live a decent life according to Church teachings if I do not annul my previous marriage? I need to do this both to revisit my own behavior and be able to confess my sins and to convalidate my marriage so that both my husband and myself can continue forward in the Church.

Don’t mind the naysayers, they simply aren’t in your context.

Guys, imagine you were convicted of a crime, did your time and just now heard the click that signifies the outer door of the jailhouse port doors opening to the free world. It would be superhuman not to celebrate the end of one’s consequences.

God bless you for sticking it out and having the humility to go through the tribunal process. I hope it was both healing and freeing for you.

Thank you! Yes, the process has been healing and freeing. But I won’t feel truly healed and free until Confession, Confirmation, Communion and convalidation. Once I can go to Mass and fully participate at my husbands side I will be truly free.

Also, someone mentioned praying for my ex. He was not raised with any religion, became Pagan, and is vehemently anti-Catholic. When I got in touch with him, for the first time in many years, to inform him I was converting and explain the annulment process and why i was doing it, he laughed and then said he wanted no part of it. I asked that he please at least tell the Tribunal he is not Christian and does not want to participate to make things easier. Hopefully, he will at least do that much so I do not have to wait any longer than necessary for a decision.

When i expressed my worries to Sister, she also advised me to pray for him. I have little hope he will ever change as he is still up to his same old tricks, but maybe God will call him someday. I haven’t prayed for him yet. I hope I will be able to soon, but I am just not ready right now.

 

[PrayRosary]

There is a very detailed answer here as to why they take as long as they do:

catholicexchange.com/why-do-marriage-annulments-take-so-long/

But basically it’s a long and cautious process. The Church just doesn’t rubber stamp and make a marriage null and void. There are witnesses, interviews, investigations, and two full trials (the petition is actually judged twice by two separate tribunals in two different diocese). The annulment process is designed to get to the truth and that just takes time and investigation.

Wow I did not know all that. Thank you.

 

[sullific]

Kind of off the thread, but related to mwncheesehead’s comment about “running off to do the civil marriage thing”.

I absolutely agree with that - and yet I am now probably forced into doing it.

Because of several health and financial issues (my fiancé’s Parkinson’s and loss of health insurance for one) as well as family issues, a deacon recommend we ask our Pastor about contacting the Tribunal about helping to assure that the decision (hopefully positive) regarding my fiancé’s annulment did indeed come within three months as the interviewing nun told him. Instead, he ADVISED us to marry iin a civil ceremony even tho it meant I would have to give up being a Eucharistic minister and of course we couldn’t receive (actually we can because the relationship is platonic now - c’mon, we’re in our late 50s! -, but I can’t see even dealing with that with him). It didn’t faze him at all. we were then told that the nun was “new” and wrong about the 3 months, so even though it is a hardship we pushed the date to next spring because we wanted to do the right thing and not do the civil ceremony thing. The Bishop even attempted to help a bit and we were told it wouldn’t, so not to get him involved again. (I say Kudos to the Bishop though - at least he cared, unlike our pastor).

This week were found out the paperwork has been sitting on a desk for two and a half months, stalled, with no move in sight. We can move the date again but the issues are too pressing to wait. Of course there’s no guarantee he’ll get the annulment either (although it is a pretty cut-and-dried, non-contested situation - mine was much more difficult and I got it in less than a year, tho that was1983). we have been counseled by another priest (one who does care) and a deacon to marry civilly or in the episcopalian church.

I find all of this heart-wrenching and have even considered breaking up with my fiancé as well as feeling that the Church bureaucracy - while I agree with the annulment process - is so overwhelmed at this point that people wanting desperately to do the right thing cannot do so, and even the hierarchy can’t change it.

as far as the thread’s title, it did catch my eye, and while I understand both points of view (it is a fairly odd way to word it, and yet having a weight lifted does deserve celebration). I guess I felt my spirits lifted just seeing the words “whoo hoo” and :“annulment” in the same sentence
as right now the annulment process is the cause of such frustration, confusion and depression for us.

Thanks for that!

 

[MJJean]

Kind of off the thread, but related to mwncheesehead’s comment about “running off to do the civil marriage thing”.

I absolutely agree with that - and yet I am now probably forced into doing it.

Because of several health and financial issues (my fiancé’s Parkinson’s and loss of health insurance for one) as well as family issues, a deacon recommend we ask our Pastor about contacting the Tribunal about helping to assure that the decision (hopefully positive) regarding my fiancé’s annulment did indeed come within three months as the interviewing nun told him. Instead, he ADVISED us to marry iin a civil ceremony even tho it meant I would have to give up being a Eucharistic minister and of course we couldn’t receive (actually we can because the relationship is platonic now - c’mon, we’re in our late 50s! -, but I can’t see even dealing with that with him). It didn’t faze him at all. we were then told that the nun was “new” and wrong about the 3 months, so even though it is a hardship we pushed the date to next spring because we wanted to do the right thing and not do the civil ceremony thing. The Bishop even attempted to help a bit and we were told it wouldn’t, so not to get him involved again. (I say Kudos to the Bishop though - at least he cared, unlike our pastor).

This week were found out the paperwork has been sitting on a desk for two and a half months, stalled, with no move in sight. We can move the date again but the issues are too pressing to wait. Of course there’s no guarantee he’ll get the annulment either (although it is a pretty cut-and-dried, non-contested situation - mine was much more difficult and I got it in less than a year, tho that was1983). we have been counseled by another priest (one who does care) and a deacon to marry civilly or in the episcopalian church.

I find all of this heart-wrenching and have even considered breaking up with my fiancé as well as feeling that the Church bureaucracy - while I agree with the annulment process - is so overwhelmed at this point that people wanting desperately to do the right thing cannot do so, and even the hierarchy can’t change it.

as far as the thread’s title, it did catch my eye, and while I understand both points of view (it is a fairly odd way to word it, and yet having a weight lifted does deserve celebration). I guess I felt my spirits lifted just seeing the words “whoo hoo” and :“annulment” in the same sentence
as right now the annulment process is the cause of such frustration, confusion and depression for us.

Thanks for that!

I am so sorry to hear of your situation.

I am new to the faith, but as I understand it a married couple awaiting annulment can go to Confession and agree to live as brother and sister until the annulment is granted and the marriage can be convalidated. If they do so, again as I understand it, the couple is allowed to receive the Eucharist and all Sacraments other than matrimony. So, to provide insurance for your fiancee, if you have to marry civilly and aren’t having marital relations you’d both still be able to receive.

Have you contacted the tribunal directly and talked to the person who is handling your case to explain the medical and insurance needs in hoped of having the annulment sped up? I have heard they will do so in cases of life and death so maybe your fiancee’s illness would qualify if not having the insurance from marriage would endanger his life. Even though the Bishop tried and was rebuffed maybe if you keep trying someone will have compassion and help.

I am so worried about my paperwork being stalled like your has been. I got a 2nd questionnaire in the mail about 2 weeks ago and it was immediately filled out and mailed back. Last weekend my witnesses started calling me to let me know they got their questionnaires. I know one has finished hers because she called me to ask if I knew of a notary public to notarize it for her so she could mail it back. Another of my witnesses called me to ask me to call the Tribunal to ask if having her pastor (Presbyterian) notarize hers would be acceptable. I’m figuring the others will have theirs sent back relatively soon and I’ll relentlessly harass them until they do, lol. But after that I have no idea how long it will take to have both the first and second Tribunals render a decision.

I am praying for spring so that I can be fully received into the Church at Easter. If that fails, I am praying for next fall at latest so my husband and I can be Confirmed and then have our marriage convalidated by December 9 which is our civil marriage anniversary.

 

[Luvz2travel]

prayers

 

[MJJean]

Thank you for prayers. Very much appreciated.

 

[kdkkdt]

Not if you have a (previous) marriage standing between you and being received into the Catholic church, for example. Life can be messy you know. Don’t judge people, it is bad for your complexion

OP,

I pray that all goes well and is over quickly.

To the OP - Congrats!

 

[Gage88]

Good luck in the future and with your future relationships.

 

[Honour]

First congrats on making this step. Don’t bother with the rude people.

Second: Be very careful with this line of thinking that he only hurts his women and doesn’t harm the kids.

I had one who left his barely two year old in the tub with the water running while he held me down, choked me, and beat me about the abdomen. Also, kids see things, I don’t want my kids growing up thinking thats how they should be treated, or it is ok or normal. Or if I had boys, I don’t want them thinking thats how they should treat their wives.

It may be a blessing that he has ignored your children. I know it still hurts them, and that is not good, but it might have been worse if he demanded visitation and you had to send them off to watch their step-mom get punched in the face.

I know your pain, as someone who has been in an abusive relationship, and someone who has been through the annulment (and celebrated when it came through) and as someone converting to Catholicism.

Prayers for you and a speedy decision!