Woman at the well 2

[Catholic-Mormon]

Yes I love how God teaches all by our own experience I know for me I have only ever had 1 wonderful husband. So it is difficult for me to relate to this woman and find myself almost condemning her. How terrible to go seeking love from all these men. But when I look at it from this other perspective I can see how I have believed false things about God and have separated myself from him and been unfaithful to him. In this way I relate and therefore I see her as myself and I have greater empathy and compassion rather than judgement. I would imagine a priest would also seek other ways of understanding this scripture and apply it to them.

 

[jcrichton]

Hi!

Exactly!

In the Old Testament Yahweh would admonish Israel for being an adulteress; He Claimed Israel (all of us really) as His:

30:22 And you shall be my people and I will be your God. 30:23 Now a storm of Yahweh breaks, a tempest whirls, it bursts over the head of the wicked; 30:24 the anger of Yahweh will not turn aside until he has performed and carried out, the decision of his heart. You will understand this in the days to come. (Jeremiah)

When we go in search of other gods (idols) we commit adultery against Yahweh God since we espouse ourselves with those to whom we surrender our affiliation and love.

Yet, if we turn to God He is that Generous and Loving Father who takes us in are reinstitutes our inheritance!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Catholic-Mormon]

I could not say it better my self.

 

[SnoopSword]

Jesus is supposed to her husband, but she’s currently worshiping false gods so they can’t get married (or something like that). All of Israel before Jesus came worshiped false gods with very few exceptions like Abraham… just my my opinion). The Old Testament is FILLED with gods, angels, deities, idols, etc… many are even named ‘Lord’ or ‘God’:

Num 3:13 ALL the 1st born males are MINE. On the day I KILLED ALL the FIRSTBORN sons of the EGYPTIANS, I set apart for MYSELF all the FIRSTBORN in Israel, BOTH of PEOPLE and of ANIMALS They are MINE"

Ex 13:2 “Give to Me EVERY FIRSTBORN among the Israelites. The FIRST OFFSPRING to be BORN, of both HUMANS and animals, BELONGS TO ME.”

Ex 13:11-12 When the Lord gives you THE LAND…you MUST give ALL FIRSTBORN [HUMAN] SONS and firstborn MALE ANIMALS to the Lord, for they BELONG TO HIM.

Num 3:14-16 the Lord said to MOSES “Now I want you to COUNT the MALES…Include everyone at LEAST a MONTH OLD.” (YIKES! <1 month old don’t exist? Talmudic-Judaeo-Masonic Abortion Laws.)

Exodus 22:29 “You shall NOT DELAY to OFFER the FIRST of your RIPE PRODUCE and your juices. The FIRSTBORN OF YOUR SONS you shall * *GIVE TO ME ** 30 LIKEWISE you shall do with your OXEN and your SHEEP [verse 30 verifies verse 29 is talking about humans. don’t kid yourself].

Hence:

"YHWH/Jehovah NOT TO BE USED in liturgy, songs and prayers - letter addressed to the BISHOPS’ CONFERENCES of the WORLD concerns the use of the “Tetragrammaton,” the FOUR HEBREW letters YHWH. "In RECENT YEARS, the practice has CREPT IN [see below lol!]”- Vatican City, Sep 3, 2008

Jude 1:4 For CERTAIN PEOPLE have CREPT IN [AMONG YOU] unnoticed, who LONG AGO were WRITTEN ABOUT for this CONDEMNATION, ungodly people, who turn the GRACE of our God into DISRUPTIVENESS [DISORDER/DIVISIONS] and who DENY our ONLY MASTER and Lord, Jesus Christ. (Basically implies that they are trying to serve 2 masters meaning they don’t serve Christ. Anabaptists are the most glaring example).

Ezekiel 14:9 If a PROPHET speaks a DECEIVING word, I YAHWEH am THE ONE WHO DECEIVED that prophet. I will… DESTROY HIM from the midst of my people Israel.

Jeremiah 4:10 “You are ADONAI YAHWEH, So WHY have you DECEIVED everyone, ESPECIALLY the people of Jerusalem?

Jeremiah 20:7 You DECEIVED ME, O YAHWEH, and I was DECEIVED.

1 Kings 22:21-22 And a SPIRIT came forth, and stood before YAHWEH, and said: I will DECEIVE him. YAHWEH asked: How? And he said: I will go forth, and be a LYING SPIRIT in the MOUTHS of ALL his PROPHETS. YAHWEH replied: You SHALL SUCCEED in deceiving him. Go forth and do this.

John 4:12 Samaritan Woman: “Are you GREATER than our father JACOB?” 13 Jesus answered “WHOEVER drinks of [JACOBS] water will THIRST AGAIN." (I take this to mean the Old Testament… among other things i definitely wont post lol)

 

[jcrichton]

Hence:

"YHWH/Jehovah NOT TO BE USED in liturgy, songs and prayers - letter addressed to the BISHOPS’ CONFERENCES of the WORLD concerns the use of the “Tetragrammaton,” the FOUR HEBREW letters YHWH. "In RECENT YEARS, the practice has CREPT IN [see below lol!]”- Vatican City, Sep 3, 2008

I do not follow your argument, could you expand on this?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[SnoopSword]

I do not follow your argument, could you expand on this?

Oh that’s just a quote from a letter sent to the Bishops worldwide from the Vatican. Let me find a link… Yeah the YHWH name isn’t even allowed to be pronounced lol. I’m guessing it’s because Jesus didn’t use the name.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...iturgy_songs_and_prayers_cardinal_arinze_says

 

[jcrichton]

Yeah… I think it goes back to the Jewish thing; the Church wants to be accommodating to their sensibilities… it entered their culture (religious) that Yahweh God’s Name was not to be uttered; you will find that religious Jews would not even spell God but as G_d; while I understand this issue, both the Jews and the Magisterium understand that Yahweh did not forbid the use of His Name; rather, He forbade the misuse of His Name:

3:15 And God also said to Moses, ‘You are to say to the sons of Israel: “Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you”. This is my name for all time; by this name I shall be invoked for all generations to come. (Exodus)

There are those who chime in with “Lord” or God of Abraham… yet, these are titles and descriptive clauses not actual names–hence, such uses clearly run contrary to the Command to let His Name, that stands forever, be known (invoked/pronounced) amongst God’s people throughout all generations to come:

This is my name for all time; by this name I shall be invoked for all generations to come.

So what is forbidden?:

20:7 ‘You shall not utter the name of Yahweh your God to misuse it, for Yahweh will not leave unpunished the man who utters his name to misuse it. (Exodus)

So should I, a self-made apologist, start my own religious body because the Church and I come to a contrasting view?

Christ Delegated His Authority to the Church and Promised that He and the Holy Spirit would remain with the Church till the end of times; in her wisdom and Authority the Church has determine that the Name of Yahweh God should not be used in the Liturgy in deference to Jewish’s (our elder siblings) sensibilities, so as a Faithfull Disciple of Christ I must submit to her Authority.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Catholic-Mormon]

Yes the one true God does not care if we use his name he has given us many name to call him the represents him honorably. But it angers God when people claim they are his people and do terrible things in his name claiming that God told them to do it. When it was so far from how God really behaves.

 

[SnoopSword]

Jewish’s (our elder siblings)

Yours (clearly lol)

But definitely NOT mine! They have no relation to me or my Faith and my God in the LEAST lol…

St. Cyprian of Carthage: “Nor is it sufficient that we call Him who is in Heaven ‘FATHER’. We must add to the name ‘OUR FATHER.’ This name REBUKES and CONDEMNS THE JEWS who–NO LONGER MAY CALL GOD THEIR FATHER, because the Lord confounds and refutes them, saying: ‘YOUR FATHER IS THE DEVIL’ (John 8:44, 41)

"Honestly, if I have to hear ONE MORE TIME about how ‘Jews’ are “our fathers in the faith”, or that Christianity is ‘Jewish’ or that the Bible was written by the ‘Jews’… well, I don’t know what - but I know I sure am SICK OF HEARING SUCH RIDICULOUS NONSENSE! “ -Fr. Raphael 2011 Orthodox Priest, Author

I’m pretty hardcore in my belief that you can’t have the Father without the Son. Without the Son, you only have a Deity or Angel like all the other religions. The fact that they read our Scripture and lay claim to the same God is extremely telling of what lays within the Old Testament.

I proclaimed and still will proclaim without a doubt, that the Old Testament is the most ‘dangerous’ book in the world. Even St. Peter mentions this himself.

-OT CAN LEAD TO DAMNATION: 2 Peter 3:16 some of what Paul says is HARD to UNDERSTAND, and those who are IGNORANT and UNSTABLE have TWISTED his LETTERS to their OWN DESTRUCTION, as they ALSO do the REST OF THE SCRIPTURES (the OT)

-OT CAN’T SAVE: John 5:39 “You search the SCRIPTURES (the OT) because YOU THINK they give you ETERNAL LIFE. But the Scriptures POINT to me! (Jesus IS his Church; Acts 9:1-6) 40 But you are NOT WILLING to COME TO ME that you may have life. (…so they KEEP SEARCHING SCRIPTURE trying to figure out who can save them).

-BIBLE CAN’T MAKE YOU HEAR AND BELIEVE: Acts 15:7 PETER rose up and said: “Men AND brethren, YOU ALL KNOW that GOD CHOSE ME from among YOU that by MY MOUTH the GENTILES should HEAR THE WORD of the GOSPEL and BELIEVE (He did NOT say: 'God told me to tell Gentiles to buy the book at the bookstore and create a personal relationship and tell yourself your saved. Also notice that some at this meeting were NOT Brethren. a VERY SCARY thought! WHO COULD HE BE TALKING ABOUT? I mean… I sure hope I’m not serving 2 masters or have split loyalties like Judas did…)

-OT TEACHINGS ARE IN PLAIN SIGHT: Exo 3:6 “I am the God of your father —the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” WHEN Moses HEARD this, he COVERED HIS FACE because he was AFRAID TO LOOK AT GOD (keep reading it until you you ‘get it’ lol)

-ANABAPTIST PROPHECY: 1 John 2:18-19 ANTICHRIST is coming, and already many such Antichrists have appeared. From this we know that the last hour has come. 19 These people left our churches, but they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left, it proved that they did NOT belong with us.

 

[jcrichton]

Hi!

I’m not a scholar or theologian or even an intelligent person… I’m quite pedestrian (as I express in my posts); yet, I know that even the most religious with the greatest zeal for the Truth (Jesus) can sin by acts or by omission…

We must be careful to not follow the “elitists” or zealots who claim God for themselves and keep Him from others:

23:13 ‘Alas for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You who shut up the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces, neither going in yourselves nor allowing others to go in who want to. 23:15 ‘Alas for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You who travel over sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when you have him you make him twice as fit for hell as you are. (St. Matthew)

Your perspective, as that of the person you’ve quoted, is flawed and clouded by genuine or confused zealousness for God. It is clearly not Taught by Christ or by the Apostles:

4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know: for salvation comes from the Jews. (St. John)
4:16 That is why what fulfils the promise depends on faith, so that it may be a free gift and be available to all of Abraham’s descendants, not only those who belong to the Law but also those who belong to the faith of Abraham who is the father of all of us.
11:11 Let me put another question then: have the Jews fallen for ever, or have they just stumbled? Obviously they have not fallen for ever: their fall, though, has saved the pagans in a way the Jews may now well emulate. 11:12 Think of the extent to which the world, the pagan world, has benefited from their fall and defection – then think how much more it will benefit from the conversion of them all.
11:16 A whole batch of bread is made holy if the first handful of dough is made holy; all the branches are holy if the root is holy. 11:17 No doubt some of the branches have been cut off, and, like shoots of wild olive, you have been grafted among the rest to share with them the rich sap provided by the olive tree itself, 11:18 but still, even if you think yourself superior to the other branches, remember that you do not support the root; it is the root that supports you. 11:19 You will say, ‘Those branches were cut off on purpose to let me be grafted in!’ True, 11:20 they were cut off, but through their unbelief; if you still hold firm, it is only thanks to your faith. Rather than making you proud, that should make you afraid. 11:21 God did not spare the natural branches, and he is not likely to spare you. 11:22 Do not forget that God can be severe as well as kind: he is severe to those who fell, and he is kind to you, but only for as long as he chooses to be, otherwise you will find yourself cut off too, 11:23 and the Jews, if they give up their unbelief, grafted back in your place. God is perfectly able to graft them back again; (Romans 3:27 thru 4:25 and 9:1 thru 11:32)

It is God Who Dispenses Justice and Mercy not man.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Catholic-Mormon]

Yes it is his todo because only He can see the whole picture. I love you my child stay close to the truth.

 

[SnoopSword]

4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know: for salvation comes from the Jews

Wow! It seems we’ve been decieved for 2000 years. Salvation comes the Jews! Ah yes. Those American Judaeo-Christians (Anabaptists) and Freemasons had it right alll along. Silly organized religion. Look how I was mislead, and all of humanity by the Church fo so long until the late 19th century when we finally discovered where salvation comes from and learned to bow down to our elder brothers and bless them. And bless Israel. And Christians in Israel? Who cares if they live or die? They arent my salvation - the Jews are!

How do I know? Because the BIBLE told me so! We should be so thankful we can now hold it in our hands and read it. Those nasty Catholics and Protestants must have been hiding God from us! Thats why they didnt want laity reading it! The Anabaptists told us all along and we didnt listen to them. But 500 years and 40,000 sects later, who would have know known how right they were! I must have been part of the Great Deception and the false Christ who they say is the Pope. Now we have the Word Of God to tell us where Salvation comes from - the Jews!

Anyhow, thank you for PERFECTLY underlining my original point. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

 

[Catholic-Mormon]

The point is not that one church was teaching truth and another intended to lie. All all deceived to one point or another all the way from the beginning with the Jews all the way to the baby religion the mormons the child will lead us once they give up their “prophet” and allow their God to finally lead.

 

[jcrichton]

Hi!

Thank you for your kindness!

It is interesting that you mention the whole picture… I love Scriptures and there are these pearls that cannot be but a demonstration of that… God indeed views everything from the whole picture:

1:3 Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with all the spiritual blessings of heaven in Christ. 1:4 Before the world was made, he chose us, chose us in Christ, to be holy and spotless, and to live through love in his presence, 1:5 determining that we should become his adopted sons, through Jesus Christ for his own kind purposes, 1:6 to make us praise the glory of his grace, his free gift to us in the Beloved, 1:7 in whom, through his blood, we gain our freedom, the forgiveness of our sins. Such is the richness of the grace 1:8 which he has showered on us in all wisdom and insight. 1:9 He has let us know the mystery of his, purpose, the hidden plan he so kindly made in Christ from the beginning 1:10 to act upon when the times had run their course to the end: that he would bring everything together under Christ, as head, everything in the heavens and everything on earth. 1:11 And it is in him that we were claimed as God’s own, chosen from the beginning, under the predetermined plan of the one who guides all things as he decides by his own will; 1:12 chosen to be, for his greater glory, the people who would put their hopes in Christ before he came. (Ephesians)

The whole picture was seen and held by God even before Creation, and, just as Creation, things developed and Unfolded according to God’s Determinate and Orchestrated Design (Will).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Hi!

Sadly, I agree with you. It seems that you are confusing your genres.

Salvation is from the Jews because the Promise was made to Israel:

3:15 I will make you enemies of each other: you and the woman, your offspring and her offspring. It will crush your head and you will strike its heel’.
17:7 I will establish my Covenant between myself and you, and your descendants after you, generation after generation, a Covenant in perpetuity, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. (Genesis)

Yet, Salvation is neither limited to the Jews nor conditioned by man’s will:

15:12-13 Isaiah too has this to say: The root of Jesse will appear, rising up to rule the pagans and in him the pagans will put their hope. (Romans)
10:10-21 By believing from the heart you are made righteous; by confessing with your lips you are saved. 10:11 When scripture says: those who believe in him will have no cause for shame, 10:12 it makes no distinction between Jew and Greek: all belong to the same Lord who is rich enough, however many ask his help… 10:16 Not everyone, of course, listens to the Good News. As Isaiah says: Lord, how many believed what we proclaimed? 10:17 So faith comes from what is preached, and what is preached comes from the word of Christ… 10:19 A second question: is it possible that Israel did not understand? Moses answered this long ago: I will make you jealous of people who are not even a nation; I will make you angry with an irreligious people. 10:20 Isaiah said more clearly: I have been found by those who did not seek me, and have revealed myself to those who did not consult me; 10:21 and referring to Israel he goes on: Each day I stretched out my hand to a disobedient and rebellious people.
11:1 Let me put a further question then: is it possible that God has rejected his people? Of course not. I, an Israelite, descended from Abraham through the tribe of Benjamin, 11:2 could never agree that God had rejected his people, the people he chose specially long ago. Do you remember what scripture says of Elijah – how he complained to God about Israel’s behaviour? 11:3 Lord, they have killed your prophets and broken down your altars. I, and I only, remain, and they want to kill me 11:4 What did God say to that? I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bent the knee to Baal 11:5 Today the same thing has happened: there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 11:6 By grace, you notice, nothing therefore to do with good deeds, or grace would not be grace at all! 11:7 What follows? It was not Israel as a whole that found what it was seeking, but only the chosen few. The rest were not allowed to see the truth; 11:8 as scripture says: God has given them a sluggish spirit, unseeing eyes and inattentive ears, and they are still like that today. 11:9 And David says: May their own table prove a trap for them, a snare and a pitfall – let that be their punishment; 11:10 may their eyes be struck incurably blind, their backs bend for ever. (Romans)

It is not man’s will that determines who we are as Christians or who is Saved!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Could you expand on these “churches,” I don’t get where you are leading nor where you get two entities?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Catholic-Mormon]

Salvation comes through the Jews because the Savior Jesus the Christ was born through their loins. We as churches believe that that salvation was finnished when Christ said it was finished. But I don’t know about you we have not seen that salvation truly come to this earth yet we still are experiencing war, hate famine, and all manner of illness and death. I believe this is because God can’t atone for what eve did only what Adam did. I believe in revelations it talks a bout a woman who needs to come atone on eve’s behalf. I believe she is on the earth now and ready to repent of her sins. I believe once she does this redemption willl finnaly really happen.

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Cynthia!

Thank you. We have different understanding (theologies).

‘It is finished.’

This is a wonderful place of disunity. Some cite that as proof of the once saved always saved theologies; so, when we turn back the pages we find:

1:29 The next day, seeing Jesus coming towards him, John said, ‘Look, there is the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. (St. John)

A theology based on this particular passage does seems to point to that once saved done deal; yet, Revelation is not limited to one shot deals:

3:16-21 Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not be lost but may have eternal life… 3:19 On these grounds is sentence pronounced: that though the light has come into the world men have shown they prefer darkness to the light because their deeds were evil…’ (St. John)

The New Covenant, as the Old, requires that there be two entities involved. Salvation, while a Free Gift, requires that man Believe in God, HIs Son, His Name.

As for the changes in the world… it has happened:

16:18-19 So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church. And the gates of the underworld can never hold out against it…’ (St. John)

17:20-21 …Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you. (St. Luke)

Does that means that the world should not suffer the causality of existence? No!:

10:34-36 ‘Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth: it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword… (St. Matthew)

The peace Jesus speaks about is different from the world’s peace:

14:27 Peace I bequeath to you, my own peace I give you, a peace the world cannot give, this is my gift to you. Do not let your hearts be troubled or afraid. (St. John)

The Kingdom of God offers us Christ’s Peace, in His Community: St. Matthew 5 through 7.

We must be ambassadors of Christ–bringing the Good News to the world, emulating Christ in Obedience to the Father. So we strive to be the peacemakers, the light/salt of the world, Christ’s Disciples:

12:9-21 Do not let your love be a pretence, but sincerely prefer good to evil… 12:11 Work for the Lord with untiring effort and with great earnestness of spirit. 12:12 If you have hope, this will make you cheerful. Do not give up if trials come; and keep on praying… 12:14 Bless those who persecute you: never curse them, bless them… 12:16 Treat everyone with equal kindness; never be condescending but make real friends with the poor. Do not allow yourself to become self-satisfied. 12:17 Never repay evil with evil but let everyone see that you are interested only in the highest ideals. 12:18 Do all you can to live at peace with everyone. 12:19 Never try to get revenge; leave that, my friends, to God’s anger. As scripture says: vengeance is mine – I will pay them back, the Lord promises. 12:20 But there is more: If your enemy is hungry, you should give him food, and if he is thirsty, let him drink. Thus you heap red-hot coals on his head. 12:21 Resist evil and conquer it with good. (Romans)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Catholic-Mormon]

Thanks for your insight it has given me much to ponder.