Woman chaplain at Catholic high school

[27lw]

I know of a woman chaplain at a Catholic high school in my city. Is this common - - what exactly would be the role of a woman chaplain? Is this position usually called something else? I thought it was kind of odd, but maybe I just need to be educated on this (I am a pretty new Catholic). Doesn’t the term “chaplain” imply that someone is ordained?
Thanks for any thoughts or clarifications!

 

[Cojuanco]

I know of a woman chaplain at a Catholic high school in my city. Is this common - - what exactly would be the role of a woman chaplain? Is this position usually called something else? I thought it was kind of odd, but maybe I just need to be educated on this (I am a pretty new Catholic). Doesn’t the term “chaplain” imply that someone is ordained?
Thanks for any thoughts or clarifications!

It’s usually called a pastoral associate. But no, she is not ordained, nor do I wager she claims herself to be (If so, please notify the relevant authorities). As for her duties, I suspect it would largely be spiritual direction and counseling, which women certainly can do.

 

[Petaro]

It is a symptom of our lack of priests. Some women are quite good at counselling and dealing with school students, however this sometimes means that the sacraments are not as available within the school environment as if they had an ordained chaplain. But this is a fact of life nowadays.

 

[paperwight66]

Absolutely. A woman friend of mine is a chaplain in a special needs school, dealing with teenage boys with behavioural problems. I wonder sometimes if the fact she is a woman means the boys aren’t as aggressive as they would be with a man, as she can say ‘Would you like your mum to be sworn at like that? No? Well, don’t swear at me, then’…

And yes, she is called a chaplain, as people know what is meant by that. ‘Pastoral Associate’ wouldn’t mean anything in a UK context, anyway. .

 

[Phemie]

I know that it’s common for lay people to be called chaplains within institutions.

But Canons 564-572 are clear - only a priest can be a ‘chaplain’.

1997’s Instruction On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priests makes that quite clear as Article 1 of Practical Provisions says

It is unlawful for the non-ordained faithful to assume titles such as “pastor”, “chaplain”, “coordinator”, " moderator" or other such similar titles which can confuse their role and that of the Pastor, who is always a Bishop or Priest.

 

[27lw]

Interesting - - thank you all for your comments! I guess it’s not so unusual after all.

 

[VanSensei]

They probably just call the position a chaplain to refer to someone with those credentials, but not ordained (e.g. an M.Div)

 

[27lw]

Also, I realize that i heard the term “chaplain” spoken by someone at the school, but in print, she is referred to as a “minister”. So it may be that that particular person refers to her as a chaplain, but that is not actually her title. It’s all making more sense to me - - that you all for you clarifications!

 

[glendab]

I think you are all being too charitable.

Face it folks there’s a heresy around that believes women should be ordained and many subscribe to it. The way they show their real feelings and beliefs on the subject is to continue to place women in positions that were traditionally held by Ordained Ministers. We have to put up with it and choose to use words that dismiss dissention and make excuse for behavior that is not what is seems to be. It is a silent protest against the male only priesthood and until we openly talk about the elephant in the room, it will remain in the room.

I for one am tired of Altar girls and women giving speeches in Church and all the sharing of the Priesthood with the women and layfolks in general.

I think there are probably hundreds of qualified men available to fill the needs of the children at the OP’s high school. THEY CHOSE TO PLACE A WOMAN IN THE SPOT. To me that says it all.

Oh well. Sorry for the rant but this stuff gets my goat.

Glenda

Glenda

 

[paperwight66]

I think you are all being too charitable.

.

I think there are probably hundreds of qualified men available to fill the needs of the children at the OP’s high school. THEY CHOSE TO PLACE A WOMAN IN THE SPOT. To me that says it all.

Oh well. Sorry for the rant but this stuff gets my goat.

Glenda

Glenda

I can’t answer for the situation in the US, but I assure you that in the UK there are certainly not ‘hundreds’ of men able to take up these positions, judging by the small number of applicants for the post my friend occupies.

These posts are advertised, you know. It’s not some sinister conspiracy, a group secretly recruiting and appointing their preferred candidates.

 

[Cojuanco]

I think you are all being too charitable.

Face it folks there’s a heresy around that believes women should be ordained and many subscribe to it. The way they show their real feelings and beliefs on the subject is to continue to place women in positions that were traditionally held by Ordained Ministers. We have to put up with it and choose to use words that dismiss dissention and make excuse for behavior that is not what is seems to be. It is a silent protest against the male only priesthood and until we openly talk about the elephant in the room, it will remain in the room.

I for one am tired of Altar girls and women giving speeches in Church and all the sharing of the Priesthood with the women and layfolks in general.

I think there are probably hundreds of qualified men available to fill the needs of the children at the OP’s high school. THEY CHOSE TO PLACE A WOMAN IN THE SPOT. To me that says it all.

Oh well. Sorry for the rant but this stuff gets my goat.

Glenda

Glenda

How do you know that the sister in this situation supports women’s ordination? For all we know she was picked because she was good at spiritual direction and counseling, and would be offended if you even suggested she wanted ordination. Add to that a lack of vocations in some districts, and you get this situation.

We should assume people are orthodox until proven otherwise.

 

[OraLabora]

I think you are all being too charitable.

Face it folks there’s a heresy around that believes women should be ordained and many subscribe to it. The way they show their real feelings and beliefs on the subject is to continue to place women in positions that were traditionally held by Ordained Ministers. We have to put up with it and choose to use words that dismiss dissention and make excuse for behavior that is not what is seems to be. It is a silent protest against the male only priesthood and until we openly talk about the elephant in the room, it will remain in the room.

I for one am tired of Altar girls and women giving speeches in Church and all the sharing of the Priesthood with the women and layfolks in general.

I think there are probably hundreds of qualified men available to fill the needs of the children at the OP’s high school. THEY CHOSE TO PLACE A WOMAN IN THE SPOT. To me that says it all.

Oh well. Sorry for the rant but this stuff gets my goat.

Glenda

Glenda

Near where I used to work there’s a private high school for boys and girls.

It’s run by a women’s religious congregation, the Sisters of the Holy Name of Jesus. Do you think it would be inappropriate for them to have a female… pastoral agent? (since the word “chaplain” is apparently reserved for the ordained).

I can’t imagine their congregation has too many male members

Please let’s not forget the important role that women’s religious congregations and orders have played in the education of Catholic (and non-Catholic!) children throughout the world.

That role also included catechizing them, providing pastoral care and direction for them, disciplining them, and giving them spiritual guidance.

That has nothing to do with heresy. The congregation I mentioned above was founded in 1843.

 

[glendab]

Hello there Co.

How do you know that the sister in this situation supports women’s ordination? For all we know she was picked because she was good at spiritual direction and counseling, and would be offended if you even suggested she wanted ordination. Add to that a lack of vocations in some districts, and you get this situation.

We should assume people are orthodox until proven otherwise.

I think the OP heard her called a Chaplain by others at the school and that is what prompted her question here. All her “title” there at the school is Minister, a traditionally male role. That’s what they officially call her there. As for your comment about the sister in question believing in women’s ordination, having worked closely and lived with the Missionaries of Charity in my lifetime, I can say that no God fearing Sister would want to be called a Minister or let confusion surround her job description as a school Chaplain. It is true you cannot read minds if they remain silent but continue to advance their cause by simply moving into roles traditionally held by men. I can easily say one thing if asked and do another. While God alone judges hearts, actions speak louder than words. Always have and they always will.

As For assume they are “orthodox” until proven guilty, ever hear of an Ostrich with it’s head in the sand? We are a divided Church. Denial doesn’t make it go away. In the case of heresy, silence isn’t golden it only allows the disease to advance.

I apologize if this offends anyone, but I am entitled to my opinion. I was raised to speak my mind and I don’t think that is wrong. I try to do so with charity.

I’m sorry but there are way too many women doing too many things that used to be done by the men for it to be a coincidence. They can ask men to do these things. Men haven’t suddenly stopped being qualified to do these things. They simply send the good ones away. Read the book Good-Bye Good Men by Michael Rose. You can get it cheap at Amazon. amazon.com/s/ref=a9_sc_1?rh=i%3Astripbooks%2Ck%3Agoodbye+good+men&keywords=goodbye+good+men&ie=UTF8&qid=1393537532

Glenda

 

[glendab]

Hello Ora.

Near where I used to work there’s a private high school for boys and girls.

It’s run by a women’s religious congregation, the Sisters of the Holy Name of Jesus. Do you think it would be inappropriate for them to have a female… pastoral agent? (since the word “chaplain” is apparently reserved for the ordained).

I can’t imagine their congregation has too many male members

Please let’s not forget the important role that women’s religious congregations and orders have played in the education of Catholic (and non-Catholic!) children throughout the world.

That role also included catechizing them, providing pastoral care and direction for them, disciplining them, and giving them spiritual guidance.

That has nothing to do with heresy. The congregation I mentioned above was founded in 1843.

You make good points however the OP’s clear that the person isn’t a sister and is called Minister as an official title there. She is a woman and others in the school call her the chaplain. I think that is clear in this instance.

I went to a very private Catholic all girls High School here on the East Coast and the Sister’s there were very kind, loving and faithful. Although I wasn’t a Catholic at that time, they treated me no differently than any of the other girls. And our Principal was a very enthusiastic and loving person. Her door was always open for any kind of talk you wanted to have with her and I did have several. I never felt anything but love from her and I was given memories that have lasted a lifetime about what a Sister really is. She never once even hinted that she was doing anything Pastoral. She would’ve been the first one to correct you if you even hinted that her “job” as our Principal was pastoral. In fact, I think she would’ve been insulted if you even tried to say that. We had Priests who regularly did all the Ministering that men do and when Father served the Mass for our school he was never assisted by the girls or the Sisters. It was very different there when I was young than what you see every day at Church.

Glenda

 

[Cojuanco]

The Church allows for Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, who may be women. Certainly a good number of them are “God-fearing”. I know of several. As to the poor woman being unofficially called a chaplain, there could be a number of innocent explanations - perhaps her predecessor was indeed ordained (therefore a chaplain) and the person calls her that out of force of habit; perhaps there is a general imprecision of words (like how people typically say “the Diocese gave her an annulment” as opposed to the more precise “the Diocese ruled that her marriage was invalid; that is, null and void”). There simply is not enough information to find any jiggery-pokery going on in this instance. And in such cases, we should assume in charity they aren’t doing anything wrong, unless there is evidence to the contrary (has she arrogated to herself power reserved to a priest alone? Does her function square with Canon Law, and what her superiors and ordinary (who may be a mother superior) say?).

Furthermore, Holy Mother Church allows altar servers to be female. I might not like it (I think it’s imprudent), and the Church allows the priest to have discretion, but I submit to the legitimacy of Holy Church’s decision.

 

[Cojuanco]

Hello Ora.

You make good points however the OP’s clear that the person isn’t a sister and is called Minister as an official title there. She is a woman and others in the school call her the chaplain. I think that is clear in this instance.

I went to a very private Catholic all girls High School here on the East Coast and the Sister’s there were very kind, loving and faithful. Although I wasn’t a Catholic at that time, they treated me no differently than any of the other girls. And our Principal was a very enthusiastic and loving person. Her door was always open for any kind of talk you wanted to have with her and I did have several. I never felt anything but love from her and I was given memories that have lasted a lifetime about what a Sister really is. She never once even hinted that she was doing anything Pastoral. She would’ve been the first one to correct you if you even hinted that her “job” as our Principal was pastoral. In fact, I think she would’ve been insulted if you even tried to say that. We had Priests who regularly did all the Ministering that men do and when Father served the Mass for our school he wasn’t never assisted by the girls or the Sisters. It was very different there when I was young than what you see every day at Church.

Glenda

Did the Sisters counsel those in their charge? That’s pastoral.
Did they provide spiritual direction? That’s pastoral.
Pastoral acts are not distinguished by a declaration to the effect it is; in fact, it might hinder the effectiveness of the act.

 

[glendab]

Hello Co.

Did the Sisters counsel those in their charge? That’s pastoral.
Did they provide spiritual direction? That’s pastoral.
Pastoral acts are not distinguished by a declaration to the effect it is; in fact, it might hinder the effectiveness of the act.

No, it isn’t “pastoral” to help others and give counsel or provide spiritual direction or any of the other myriad ways in which Sisters are there for us. It is simply being a Sister and giving of oneself in a loving way. It insults good and faithful Sisters to call them pastors and their works pastoral. That is your opinion of what they do and I thank you for sharing your opinion. But is is still an opinion.

Can I ask, if you really feel that what some Sister’s do is pastoral, do you also feel they should get recognized as pastors of souls?

Glenda

 

[Cojuanco]

Hello Co.

No, it isn’t “pastoral” to help others and give counsel or provide spiritual direction or any of the other mired ways in which Sisters are there for us. It is simply being a Sister and giving of oneself in a loving way. It insults good and faithful Sisters to call them pastors and their works pastoral. That is your opinion of what they do and I thank you for sharing your opinion. But is is still an opinion.

Can I ask, if you really feel that what some Sister’s do is pastoral, do you also feel they should get recognized as pastors of souls?

Glenda

If you mean cure of souls, goodness no. But we must make distinctions. Sacramental pastoral care (for example, saying Mass, hearing Confessions, celebrating marriage rites) is the exclusive province of the ordained (bishops, priests deacons [in certain cases]). As it should be. But other aspects of pastoral care (for example, the corporal works of mercy) would be the responsibility of all the faithful, with due obedience to our priests. That does not mean we are pastors in the sense that a priest or bishop is a pastor.

 

[Cojuanco]

Partial case in point: The Franciscans have mendicants are engaged in pastoral care (There is such a friar who frequents this very board). But most are not ordained priests. Medicants pretty much do everything that is not reserved to the priest alone, but which parish priests typically do. They are under vows, yes - but they are not ordained; yet they engage in pastoral work.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Hello Co.

No, it isn’t “pastoral” to help others and give counsel or provide spiritual direction or any of the other myriad ways in which Sisters are there for us. It is simply being a Sister and giving of oneself in a loving way. It insults good and faithful Sisters to call them pastors and their works pastoral. That is your opinion of what they do and I thank you for sharing your opinion. But is is still an opinion.

Can I ask, if you really feel that what some Sister’s do is pastoral, do you also feel they should get recognized as pastors of souls?

Glenda

You really need to provide a citation where “pastoral” work (as differentiated from BEING a pastor) is limited to the ordained. In my book giving counsel and spiritual direction is clearly “pastoral” work. In our local Catholic hospital the department overseeing the chapel, chaplains, and those who bring Communion to the sick is the Department of Pastoral Ministry. Using your approach, even deacons couldn’t be considered as doing “pastoral work” since under Canon Law they cannot be actual pastors.