Woman dies without the Sacraments. Am I to blame?

[baltobetsy]

Things to remember, OP: God loves you. God loves the woman who died. God knew what would happen and that she would die without the Sacraments.

God desires the salvation of all of us, including the unfortunate lady. She desired to see a priest and be reconciled. These desires certainly met in the heart of God. He did not cast her off because you did not insist on bringing in the priest. God did not stop loving her.

Looking back, you may conclude that it would have been better to go against the son’s wishes and call the priest. If so, you will surely do things differently next time.

When you post a question here, you open yourself up to all kinds of opinions, informed and uninformed. The opinions that would have been helpful to you would have been those of other hospice workers. Sadly, you have not received much of that kind of help. Perhaps you could have conversation with your co-workers or supervisors. The other help that will really and substantially help you is the kind you can receive in Confession. The priest has surely seen plenty of similar situations and will be able to give practical advice. Most importantly, though, if you are in reality guilty of any omission, you will receive Christ’s forgiveness and healing in the Sacrament. You will leave forgiven, healed and fortifed with grace and good advice. Please go to Confession and have this burden lifted from your shoulders.

I think you are an absolute hero for the work that you do. No human being can do everything perfectly every time. If indeed you have made a mistake (and only God can really judge this), you have simply proved that you are human. God is bigger than you and your mistakes - let Him take care of it all. Have a Mass offered, pray for the lady and her family and be at peace.

Betsy

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

Well - what’s done is done. I’m not prepared to tar and feather this woman who spends her days with dying people because she was put in a situation (she was on call - this was not her case) she was unable to handle due to the son. She did what she did - so now what? What would you suggest? Stones? Rocks maybe?

I call for prayers - for the OP and the woman’s soul. And the son as well.

~Liza

I would suggest learning from the situation and serious re evaluation of all actions.

 

[Ceil-1]

Puzzleannie is 100% correct. This woman should have been given the proper spiritual care when she was admitted three months earlier.

Unfortunately, I live in an area that is only about 11% Catholic, and that is a recent number. As a matter of fact, the town I live in was the seat of the KKK as recently as the '70’s. I have been tolds tories about how members of my parish were turned away from Mass.

I am the only Catholic person in my office. All our chaplains, as nice as they are, are Protestant. They will connect the patients with a Catholic priest if they ask, but they do not go out of their way to do it. There is a little tension there. And, someimes comments are made. I’m a bit of a mystery to them, because I was unable to help out one night at 11pm because I was at Adoration. Try explaining that one.

I have decided to take this matter to our head chaplain. He needs to be made aware of the dilemma his people’s neglect put me in. Of course, to them, I am in error. Once in a while one of the staff will make a derogatory comment about someone who is Catholic. It really makes me uncomfortable because I take my faith so seriously. There are many unspoken things as well.

I make it a priority to say a Divine Mercy Chaplet for those that are dying, and specifically the ones I come in contact with. (I am on call only).

I think the only thing to do is to ask the chaplain to make sure that Catholics be given access to a priest whether is suits them or not. What more can I do?

BTW, I have ordered that book, Midwife of Souls. It sounds very good.

 

[Ceil-1]

One more thing, then I will put this to rest. My job is to get symptoms under control, and this unfortunate woman was having problems.

I honestly did not realize she would expire before morning when I meant to have this issue taken back up. I was quite busy dealing with her problems, and the family in Peru on the speaker phone begging me to send her to the hospital, their not realizing that the hospital could do nothing for her.

Of course, in my mind, this moment in a patient’s life is most critical. I truly believe that the last few hours of a person’s life is the most critical. I believe there is much going on at the level of the soul at this time that we on earth know nothing about, and that the Saints have written of. Many times, as they have taken their last breath, I have told them to call out the name of Jesus. I feel priveledged to be the one to remind them of their recourse to HIm at that moment. I believe they undergo a final temptation at this moment in time. When I think about it I’m priveleged.

I appreciate the advice I had come looking for. I will have massess said for her, and pray and fast for her soul, take communion for her and so on. I feel confident that God will honor this. Thanks to all.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Ceil,
my wife was a hospice nurse, and I was a hospice volunteer.

You did not fail this woman, her son did. As a hospice nurse, you know that the primary care giver, has the authority to make these decisions. All we can do is accept it and pray.

God knew the heart of this woman, and I’m sure He blessed her.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My point is this - the OP did not do what she could and made decisions on behalf of the priest and the son.

OP indicated about not wanting to bring the priest into the situation at the son’s house - something that is not her call. OP needed only convey the woman’s wish and let the priest negotiate with the son and his family.

As a hospice nurse, its not her call to over step the wishes of the primary care giver, in this case, the woman’s son.

The OP’re did nothing wrong and would’ve called a priest, had her son not prevented her not to.

Jim

 

[THurifer2]

As a hospice nurse, its not her call to over step the wishes of the primary care giver, in this case, the woman’s son.

The OP’re did nothing wrong and would’ve called a priest, had her son not prevented her not to.

Jim

I have worked with the dying for nearly 20 years. YOU ARE 100000% right.

Righto!! Jim!!

 

[Al_Masetti]

When the situation is in a city in which Catholics constitute a very small minority, getting a priest can be problematical sometimes.

When my mom was dying in a distant city, my sister called me because she was unable to arrange a priest-visit throught the “usual channels”.

I got the correct address of the hospice and, being fairly aggressive, called the diocesan office directly. They gave me the name and phone number of a local parish and with one more call, arranged for a priest. The pastor and the priest who made the visits were more than helpful. When I visited, they also arranged for me to visit the church and pick up a Consecrated Host so I could, personally, bring my mother Holy Communion.

After mom passed, I wrote to the pastor and to the priest to thank them for having “gift wrapped” my mom for God.

Gotta be persistent and not be afraid of calling the bishop’s office.

 

[puzzleannie]

[Edited by Moderator]

I think the OP did what she could given the circumstances she was in. She is not to blame - the son should have been receptive to his mother’s wishes in his own home. I don’t believe blame has any place here.

[Edited by Moderator]

~Liza

I certainly did not intend to tar and feather anybody, but I think it is a sad situation when someone as devoted as OP doing such a necessary and valiant apostolate, is not given guidance before the situation arises, and is put in this situation in the first place, and even more that she, rather than those responsible for failing to meet this woman’s needs, is made to feel guilty for their lack of charity.

 

[lizaanne]

I was not refering to you, puzzleannie, I was refering to Just 1 hr a week.

But that’s done too - let’s move on.

~Liza

 

[CarrieH]

As a hospice nurse, its not her call to over step the wishes of the primary care giver, in this case, the woman’s son.

The OP’re did nothing wrong and would’ve called a priest, had her son not prevented her not to.

Jim

Ceil, I worked in ICU for 13 years and more than once found myself stuck in the middle of uncomfortable end-of-life situations. I know only too well how awkward that can be, and my heart goes out to you. You did what you could under the circumstances, and if anyone is at fault here, it would be that woman’s son, not you. May God bless you as you continue your work with the dying.

 

[rpp]

My father passed away just two months ago.

It was very fortunate that I was there and able to call a priest.

It was very unfortunate that on that particular day, my archbishop chose to have a meeting with EVERY priest in the archdiocese in a small town about 120 miles away.

It more than fortunate that the priest with whom I celebrate daily Mass was having a bad morning, including distractions and car trouble, that prevented him from leaving on time to attend that diocese-wide meeting of all the priests. In fact, he was just driving past the hospital when my spiritual director called him and said my father needed a priest’s help.

Of all the priests who could have been there, I am thankful that wonderful, faithful, eternally kind, exceedingly smart, very wise and humble Father Chun was able to give my father the Last Sacrament.

And somehow, I do not think his car trouble was a coincidence. And after talking to him, neither does he.

Ceil, you did everything you felt you could. You made the best decisions you could with the information you had at the time. Please do not second-guess yourself. While it is always beneficial to learn from our experiences, I do not think you did anything wrong.

May God continue to bless you in your important work.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I’m certainly not “calling the OP to the carpet” as someone implied, but she asked what she should have done and the answer is, “Try to get a priest.” No one’s saying that if the priest then had difficulty getting in because of the son or was unreachable, etc., she would be at fault, or that the dying woman was consigned to eternal fire because the OP didn’t make the call, but the fact remains that in questions of salvation we really have a duty to make a good faith effort at honoring requests for the sacraments. I’ve also been in situations where I’ve felt I backed down too easily, but as a matter of principle the priest should have been called.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I’m certainly not “calling the OP to the carpet” as someone implied, but she asked what she should have done and the answer is, “Try to get a priest.” No one’s saying that if the priest then had difficulty getting in because of the son or was unreachable, etc., she would be at fault, or that the dying woman was consigned to eternal fire because the OP didn’t make the call, but the fact remains that in questions of salvation we really have a duty to make a good faith effort at honoring requests for the sacraments. I’ve also been in situations where I’ve felt I backed down too easily, but as a matter of principle the priest should have been called.

Sorry but you are wrong. The son said, no priest and it was his house. Had the OP done what you suggest, she could’ve been fired. Hospice personal must abide by the desires of the family members, in particular, the care giver. This was the son’s house. The hospice nurse can not overstep the son when it comes to spiritual matters. Medical matters, is a different thing.

This is why its important that you let your family members know your wishes, should the time come that you would need a priest. Don’t let them force their non-beliefs onto you.

A living will is a good idea.

Jim

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

Sorry but you are wrong. The son said, no priest and it was his house. Had the OP done what you suggest, she could’ve been fired. Hospice personal must abide by the desires of the family members, in particular, the care giver. This was the son’s house. The hospice nurse can not overstep the son when it comes to spiritual matters. Medical matters, is a different thing.

This is why its important that you let your family members know your wishes, should the time come that you would need a priest. Don’t let them force their non-beliefs onto you.

A living will is a good idea.

Jim

It seems then the OP should have ONLY asked the son (in his role as primary caregiver) and not asked the woman herself at all.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Sorry but you are wrong. The son said, no priest and it was his house. Had the OP done what you suggest, she could’ve been fired. Hospice personal must abide by the desires of the family members, in particular, the care giver. This was the son’s house. The hospice nurse can not overstep the son when it comes to spiritual matters. Medical matters, is a different thing.

This is why its important that you let your family members know your wishes, should the time come that you would need a priest. Don’t let them force their non-beliefs onto you.

A living will is a good idea.

Jim

We’re talking about a Catholic with spiritual obligations, and a nurse with professional obligations. If the two conflict, I think I know which one should be followed. It’s not as if this dying woman was non sui compos - she actively requested the presence of a priest, and if the law is such that her caregiver will not be protected in acting upon that request, there is a serious flaw that needs to be remedied.

In your scheme, it doesn’t matter whether you express your wishes to your family members because they can always override you when you are in their home. She did inform her family of her wishes, and they simply disregarded them, which you are saying the nurse is required to be complicit in.

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

We’re talking about a Catholic with spiritual obligations, and a nurse with professional obligations. If the two conflict, I think I know which one should be followed. It’s not as if this dying woman was non sui compos - she actively requested the presence of a priest, and if the law is such that her caregiver will not be protected in acting upon that request, there is a serious flaw that needs to be remedied.

In your scheme, it doesn’t matter whether you express your wishes to your family members because they can always override you when you are in their home. She did inform her family of her wishes, and they simply disregarded them, which you are saying the nurse is required to be complicit in.

It was not clear from the description that the woman asked on her own accord or simply said yes after the nurse asked her (which came after asking son about how devout the mother is/was).

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Andreas Hofer

In your scheme, it doesn’t matter whether you express your wishes to your family members because they can always override you when you are in their home.

The reality of life is, if you’re dying, your family can overide your wishes.

The law in hospice is, the care giver has say on the needs and care of their loved one. A hospice nurse or volunteer, can not rule over the care giver, especially when its his own mother in his own home.

It events like this, we have to leave the person to the mercy of God.

Jim

 

[leonie]

My father passed away just two months ago.

It was very fortunate that I was there and able to call a priest.

It was very unfortunate that on that particular day, my archbishop chose to have a meeting with EVERY priest in the archdiocese in a small town about 120 miles away.

It more than fortunate that the priest with whom I celebrate daily Mass was having a bad morning, including distractions and car trouble, that prevented him from leaving on time to attend that diocese-wide meeting of all the priests. In fact, he was just driving past the hospital when my spiritual director called him and said my father needed a priest’s help.

Of all the priests who could have been there, I am thankful that wonderful, faithful, eternally kind, exceedingly smart, very wise and humble Father Chun was able to give my father the Last Sacrament.

And somehow, I do not think his car trouble was a coincidence. And after talking to him, neither does he.

.

Did your father have a devotion to the Sacred Heart?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

As a hospice nurse, many of my patients die prepared according to their faith tradition. Most of the time, Catholic patients are well-covered in this regard as their families see to it.

Recently I had one lady who lived with her son and his very dysfunctional family. His wife is mentally ill and attempted suicide during the crisis of his mother dying at home. He has six neglected children, and his siblings refused to come near because of his family.

The last evening of her life, everyone knew she didn’t have long. She was still alert. I asked her son if she was a religious woman and he replied that she was very devout. I asked if a priest had seen her since she was sick and he said no. I asked her if she would like to see the priest and she indicated in the affirmative. When I turned to the son, he waved me off and said she didn’t need a priest.

Well, she died a few hours later without the Sacraments. I could easily have pushed the issue and called the priest myself. If ever a person needed a priest, it would have been her at that time. At the time I felt a nudge to do it, but did not.

A couple of nights later I had a dream about her. I don’t remember the details, but it left me wondering if I did right by her?
I now wish I had at least tried to get this woman the last rites whether her son is a believer or not.

Did I fail this woman? Should I have insisted on getting the priest?
The son was in such a state that if I had been forceful about it, he would have relented, I am sure. Did she have the right to have me trump the son’s wishes to get a priest? I would appreciate any insight into this dilemma.

When a patient asks for or indicates in some way they want a priest, dial the phone!