Woman in Islam.

[Korotkov]

I’m sorry - Am I reading this correctly? Are you calling islamic women (dogs)???

If you are, that is wrong on all levels.

I might not like islam at all, as a matter of fact, I don’t care about islam one bit —

But to call the muslim women -dogs- is down right nasty.

I hope and trust I read your post wrong…

You are correct, I forgot the ""s there as I was referring to the dog thing in the first post. (or I might have misread something , gosh)

 

[elwill]

you can lie for the others but me an ex-muslim … never you can falsity
your comment is not true
a woman taken as slave is consired slave all her life and not a free woman dosen’t you know your fake religion well ?

let whoever read the verse decide who is true ,

also she’s not named as wife but slave ( ملكات اليمين )
and don’t have the same right as the wife cause she’s just for sex – that’s waht your fake religion say and not me

slave woman in arabic means “Amah”/ أمة not ( ملكات اليمين ) ,

deny waht ?
can you deny the 3 methods how can a muslim take a slave woman ?
don’t forge if you haven’t reply just say it
i’ll reply it

• in wars … muslims can take all the women and the children and assume the women as long as married and mothers

• buy : the muslim can buy a woman from market as a good and then make sex with her

• by gift : in islam the slave woman is like any thing … any muslim can give a woman to another muslim man and he’ll take her 'that’s legal in islam" muhamed too taked a copt girl as a gift

it was allowed to take captives in wars , tell me was it prohibited in your religion ?
and yes mohammed (pbuh) recieved slave as a gift then married her and she became his wife and muslims call her mother of believers as all of his wives , great honout given to her by our beloved prophet (pbuh)

but what about market of women , i have to ask you about that

LOL
who need a verse for cleaning himself after turd !!!
the problem here is making women in the same place with turd

this you sick mind which put the women in same place
the verse is talking about how and when to do our ablution if the time of prayer came while there is no water

O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say, nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath-- unless (you are) travelling on the road-- until you have washed yourselves;***** and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving. *****

First : the text is talking with DIVORCE affairs
Second : the text is talking about divorce for the old women and the children wives
look at swinery of islam … there is not just pedohelia but also regles for children girl Divorce

• Islam legalise PEDOPHELIA believe or not

[4] Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy
65.4

a girl can be married prior to puberty, but consummation and her moving into his home may only occur at the onset of puberty or later. So sexual relations before puberty is not possible in islam, since nikkah canonly be consummated when a girl reaches puberty or the general age of puberty. As the hadith about Aishah’s age show, her betrothal took place at least three years before the consummation of the marriage. The reason for this was that they were waiting for her to come of age, i.e. to have her first menstrual period.

 

[Paul_89_33]

let whoever read the verse decide who is true

haha nice reply
why ? is the people who choice the sence or that’s elready well known
everytime we have to come back to books of explainers i mean the 4 trustworthy since you’re sunni

firstly slave woman in arabic means “Amah”/ أمة not ( ملكات اليمين )

really !!!
amah or mamloka it’s the same i just write the original word from quran
and did amah differ to malakat ak yamin ??!!
and however amah or malakat yamin dosen’t change what i said
that’s the slave woman in islam is consired as slave and not like the wife
also not called wife but slave

it was allowed to take captives in wars

it was !!!
why isn’t allowed in this time too ?
i’m wondering
and you don’t feel shame from this terrorist man and his fake religion ?

tell me was it prohibited in your religion ?

that’s not what we are talking in tis topic
open a new topic and stance this question
now stick to topic

and yes mohammed (pbuh) recieved slave as a gift then married her

Liar liar liar or maybe ignorant
muhamed don’t married her never

and she became his wife

not true she stayed a slave and not his wife

but what about market of women , i have to ask you about that

don’t worry man
i promise you i’ll post it later

a girl can be married prior to puberty

huh !! isn’t that the pedophelia !!

So sexual relations before puberty is not possible in islam

blah blah blah
proof !!!
read the text again and again
it’s talking about divorce in islam for the old women and the children wives
the little girl is already married
how can be that’s from women rights
where’s your minds !!!

since nikkah canonly be consummated when a girl reaches puberty or the general age of puberty

9 is not the general age of puberty alrady
so why mohamed the pedophile violate aisha at this age ?
in islam nikah can consummated when a girl began fate … or somrthing like that’s and not reaches pubery

 

[elwill]

haha nice reply
why ? is the people who choice the sence or that’s elready well known
everytime we have to come back to books of explainers i mean the 4 trustworthy since you’re sunni

interpretation of the verse dosn’t need any school , words of quran is clear in its meaning

anyway , what is wrong with marrying slaves or captives , i really can’t understand why you complains

really !!!
amah or mamloka it’s the same i just write the original word from quran
and did amah differ to malakat ak yamin ??!!
and however amah or malakat yamin dosen’t change what i said
that’s the slave woman in islam is consired as slave and not like the wife
also not called wife but slave

exactly , my point is that quran didn’t call those women slaves , rather it called them malakat yamin , the differ is that this expression refere to thier rights upon thier masters. pre-islam slaves were as an animals havn’t no rights upon thier masters , but islam and the prophet give them some of the rights and partial freedom as a positive step to end slavery gradually

it was !!!
why isn’t allowed in this time too ?
i’m wondering
and you don’t feel shame from this terrorist man and his fake religion ?

why i have to feel shame where i find it the best religion in the earth , show me that your religion is better than mine ,and i promise to you that i will convert to your religion , so can you show me if christianity is more better than islam with dealing with slaves or women ?

anyway , it’s not allowed now because slavery not common practice these days alhamdo lellah , and our religion prohibit us to enslave free men , in the time of mohammed it was deeply rooted practice , and it was necessery to deal with it gradually to end

that’s not what we are talking in tis topic
open a new topic and stance this question
now stick to topic

i just want to know if you find it okey when the problem came in your religion ? because me and you knows that your own relegion encourage slavery and me and you knows that early churchs involved in slavery trading

Liar liar liar or maybe ignorant
muhamed don’t married her never
not true she stayed a slave and not his wife

well , what is the name of this copt slave ?

don’t worry man
i promise you i’ll post it later

and i will not forgot to remind you if you forgot

huh !! isn’t that the pedophelia !!

no , it isn’t

blah blah blah
proof !!!
read the text again and again
it’s talking about divorce in islam for the old women and the children wives
the little girl is already married
how can be that’s from women rights
where’s your minds !!!

The Noble Verses are clearly speaking about divorce of women, and there are three categories of those women:

1- Women who are very old.

2- Women who have not had their monthly period at the time of the divorce.

3- Women who are pregnant at the time of the divorce.

For point #2, it doesn’t necessarily have to mean that the woman was a young girl. To me, it is clearly talking about the wife not having her period yet when the divorce happened. Women on average have 10 days of menstruation each month. Point #2 is speaking about the 20 other days.

9 is not the general age of puberty alrady
so why mohamed the pedophile violate aisha at this age ?
in islam nikah can consummated when a girl began fate … or somrthing like that’s and not reaches pubery

Puberty normally occurs in a series of five stages (Tanner stages) that typically begin within the ages of 8 and 13 for girls and 9 and 14 for boys. Puberty is consider early (precocious) if it occurs before the age of 8 years in girls and 9 years in boys. And puberty is considered late or delayed if it has not begun prior to the age of 13 years for girls and 14 years for boys.

 

[jakasaki]

Wow, sounds like Muhammad had a grudge with them women!

Not only did mohamad have a grudge with women, but he also had a grudge and hatred for the Jews and Christians.

 

[jakasaki]

~ ***snip ***~

well , what is the name of this copt slave ?

~ sn******ip ~ …

You honestly don’t know who the Copt slave was or are you fooling around?

Surely you know Mary the Copt slave girl mohamad had.

 

[jakasaki]

Re: Woman in Islam.

Any religion that requires me or forces me to wear a burqa, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me not to travel alone, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me to do repetitive things, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me to be seperate from men in gatherings and in society, is no religion for me.

My list is long - islam is not a religion of God - it is an idiology created by a 7th century war monger, power hungry, self made, self claimed “profit” of God - lusting over women, had many many wives and slave girls.

 

[seraphime2008]

Just want to keep the right track, seems like someone ( I suspect elwill ) is playing on words to let us loose the real meaning of the debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_89_33 View Post
haha nice reply
why ? is the people who choice the sence or that’s elready well known
everytime we have to come back to books of explainers i mean the 4 trustworthy since you’re sunni

interpretation of the verse dosn’t need any school , words of quran is clear in its meaning

anyway , what is wrong with marrying slaves or captives , i really can’t understand why you complains

I think what Paul said is that Islam takes slaves women not as wives to be able to have sex with them, they don’t get the status of wife but remain slaves. So the problem is not taking slaves as wives.

really !!!
amah or mamloka it’s the same i just write the original word from quran
and did amah differ to malakat ak yamin ??!!
and however amah or malakat yamin dosen’t change what i said
that’s the slave woman in islam is consired as slave and not like the wife
also not called wife but slave

exactly , my point is that quran didn’t call those women slaves , rather it called them malakat yamin , the differ is that this expression refere to thier rights upon thier masters. pre-islam slaves were as an animals havn’t no rights upon thier masters , but islam and the prophet give them some of the rights and partial freedom as a positive step to end slavery gradually

I think Paul said that whatever found in the Koran, it says that these poor slaves women will never get the same status as wives, they still hold the same “title” that’s why the naming in arab is still the same no matter the situation.

why i have to feel shame where i find it the best religion in the earth , show me that your religion is better than mine ,and i promise to you that i will convert to your religion , so can you show me if christianity is more better than islam with dealing with slaves or women ?

anyway , it’s not allowed now because slavery not common practice these days alhamdo lellah , and our religion prohibit us to enslave free men , in the time of mohammed it was deeply rooted practice , and it was necessery to deal with it gradually to end

Best religion is subjective to your own opinion of course… of course Christian is much-much better than Islam, since all the core belief is rooted in the main tenet of God’s love for human, not God’s enslave of human.
All your accusation of Christian dealing women worse is because of your misunderstanding. All I can see the Christian women is respected as equal human being in their community.
And if you believe that Islam has helped to free the world from slavery, you’re delusional. Many posts here already given examples that slavery can still be found in the country where Islam is the majority.

Liar liar liar or maybe ignorant
muhamed don’t married her never
not true she stayed a slave and not his wife

well , what is the name of this copt slave ?

Ehm…someone has to clarify this, was she married or not? For the sake of objective argument.

Quote:

blah blah blah
proof !!!
read the text again and again
it’s talking about divorce in islam for the old women and the children wives
the little girl is already married
how can be that’s from women rights
where’s your minds !!!

The Noble Verses are clearly speaking about divorce of women, and there are three categories of those women:

1- Women who are very old.

2- Women who have not had their monthly period at the time of the divorce.

3- Women who are pregnant at the time of the divorce.

For point #2, it doesn’t necessarily have to mean that the woman was a young girl. To me, it is clearly talking about the wife not having her period yet when the divorce happened. Women on average have 10 days of menstruation each month. Point #2 is speaking about the 20 other days.

Here comes the problem with words and technicality again. Every body with clear mind will understand it’s talking about someone’s age, not someone that hasn’t had her period yet in a month. Seriously…if it’s talking about divorce, it has nothing at all to do whether the wife hasn’t had her period, what the reason to wait until her period comes at that particular mont? Isn’t it really really really ridicuolous? Well anyway, everything that has to do with Islam’s rule and regulation is somehow ridiculous to certain degree…why bother

9 is not the general age of puberty alrady
so why mohamed the pedophile violate aisha at this age ?
in islam nikah can consummated when a girl began fate … or somrthing like that’s and not reaches pubery

Puberty normally occurs in a series of five stages (Tanner stages) that typically begin within the ages of 8 and 13 for girls and 9 and 14 for boys. Puberty is consider early (precocious) if it occurs before the age of 8 years in girls and 9 years in boys. And puberty is considered late or delayed if it has not begun prior to the age of 13 years for girls and 14 years for

Oh no…no…no…here it comes again, problem with words and it’s technical meaning when it really sounds clear that Muhammad indeed had let himself married a young girl he can be his grandpa…my…my…my…! We have discussed it zillion time, but the Muslims keep saying that it’s legal. So pedophilia is a matter of legal procedure in Islam.

 

[seraphime2008]

=elwill;5468393)
1)Women should learn in silence and subjugation.

2)Women should not teach.

3)Women should not have authority over men but should remain silent.

4)Adam and Eve were not equal in sin. Adam was not deceived but Eve was.

5)Women are commanded to be under obedience to men. God ordained that men shall for all time rule over women

6)Women must keep silent in Churches. It is shameful for them to open their mouths therein. If they have a question they should ask their husbands before going to church and then their husbands will ask for them in the church.

7)A woman should neither pray nor profess with her head uncovered.

8)If a woman prays with her head uncovered then she might as well shave her head.

9)Man was created in the image and glory of God, and Woman was created in the glory of Man, thus Man must have power over her.

10)Any woman who delivers a male baby shall be unclean for one week. But any woman who delivers a female baby shall be unclean for TWO weeks. Thus, females make their mothers DOUBLY unclean as compared to males.

11)While it is possible to find one upright man in every thousand, it is impossible to find even one single upright woman in every thousand

12)Woman is a snare, her heart is a trap, and her hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but she will ensnare the sinner.

13)If a woman had her period and touches a chair or a bed or anything else then that item immediately becomes unclean. Anyone who then touches those things shall also become unclean. They must then bathe themselves and wash their clothes because they have touched an item that a menstruous woman has touch

no. 1, 2 and 3 are supposedly taken from St. Paul’ s letter. But better take the quotation right, it addresses that there were perhaps several argument rises amongst the early Christian whether they had to keep their old tradition of holding women at the back, but St. Paul, didn’t want to make a sudden change, praising their tradition but then stressing that at the Church, clearly the Christians are not supposed to hold on to old tradition since in front of God, men and women are equal, and basically they can’t live without each other.

no. 4 if you real carefully, God actually asked the responsibility of Adam because he was the one entrusted the rules. Did God say anything that the women is supposed to be blamed? No…So you have to see clearly what the Bible tells.

no. 5…where in the Bible, pls clarify because with muslim’s tactics of taking verses without context the problem will arise.

no. 6 refer to the answer at no. 1, 2 and 3

no. 7 and 8 wrong quotation, St. Paul never really says that it’s an obligatory, he finally addresses that this won’t be a matter in Church, it should never be argued as tradition to be kept. Read the whole text.

no. 9 Read the context again. It also depicts or tells about the relationship of Jesus and His church, Jesus is the groom and the church is the bridegroom.

no. 10, 11, 12 and 13 are taken from the OT which has been replaced with NT. We’re not discussing about those rules and regulations applied to certain situation and time.

 

[elwill]

You honestly don’t know who the Copt slave was or are you fooling around?

Surely you know Mary the Copt slave girl mohamad had.

correct , do you think either that mary wasn’t one of his wives ?

 

[elwill]

Any religion that requires me or forces me to wear a burqa, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me not to travel alone, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me to do repetitive things, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me to be seperate from men in gatherings and in society, is no religion for me.

My list is long - islam is not a religion of God - it is an idiology created by a 7th century war monger, power hungry, self made, self claimed “profit” of God - lusting over women, had many many wives and slave girls.

your long list clarify that islam isn’t religion for your own desire , not that islam isn’t religion of God

 

[seraphime2008]

your long list clarify that islam isn’t religion for your own desire , not that islam isn’t religion of God
Today 11:54 am

Ehm…do we have proofs that Islam is a religion of God?

 

[elwill]

Just want to keep the right track, seems like someone ( I suspect elwill ) is playing on words to let us loose the real meaning of the debate.

and who don’t play with words , all attacks against islam is simply playing with words . using the concept pedophilia becuase someone 1400 years ago married a girl umder the age which determind by USA law in the last century is playing with words

I think what Paul said is that Islam takes slaves women not as wives to be able to have sex with them, they don’t get the status of wife but remain slaves. So the problem is not taking slaves as wives.

yes offcourse that was what paul said , and that’s what i said that it’s wrong . the verses didn’t say that , so that my comment was that he is wrong becuase the verses talking about taking slaves as wives not taking them as object of sex

I think Paul said that whatever found in the Koran, it says that these poor slaves women will never get the same status as wives, they still hold the same “title” that’s why the naming in arab is still the same no matter the situation.

where in the quran it said that slaves women will never get the same status as wives

Best religion is subjective to your own opinion of course… of course Christian is much-much better than Islam, since all the core belief is rooted in the main tenet of God’s love for human, not God’s enslave of human.

okey , i wanna to trust you, just show me comparisons , that’s all i ask

All your accusation of Christian dealing women worse is because of your misunderstanding. All I can see the Christian women is respected as equal human being in their community.

im not talking about what you see in community , i’m talking about what we see in your scripture

And if you believe that Islam has helped to free the world from slavery, you’re delusional. Many posts here already given examples that slavery can still be found in the country where Islam is the majority.

which country ?

Ehm…someone has to clarify this, was she married or not? For the sake of objective argument.

well , actually there’s no doubts that she is one of his wives , it’s something known to christians and muslims ( except our friend Pual )

Here comes the problem with words and technicality again. Every body with clear mind will understand it’s talking about someone’s age, not someone that hasn’t had her period yet in a month. Seriously…if it’s talking about divorce, it has nothing at all to do whether the wife hasn’t had her period, what the reason to wait until her period comes at that particular mont? Isn’t it really really really ridicuolous? Well anyway, everything that has to do with Islam’s rule and regulation is somehow ridiculous to certain degree…why bother

even if the verse refere to the young girls it dosn’t mean that they was married before puberty
scientifically puberty in body and mind start to appear about two years before the first period

Oh no…no…no…here it comes again, problem with words and it’s technical meaning when it really sounds clear that Muhammad indeed had let himself married a young girl he can be his grandpa…my…my…my…! We have discussed it zillion time, but the Muslims keep saying that it’s legal. So pedophilia is a matter of legal procedure in Islam.

pedophilia has nothing to to with the age of marriage , in islam you can marry the girl in the age of puberty , in the age when she can bear children

what about you religion ? or did your God forgot to inform you the age of marraige ?
do you know that it was custom between jews to marry in this age , did jesus show any objections for marriage with little girls or did he forgot ?

 

[seraphime2008]

elwill; 5472545:

and who don’t play with words , all attacks against islam is simply playing with words . using the concept pedophilia becuase someone 1400 years ago married a girl umder the age which determind by USA law in the last century is playing with words

So supposedly, will you marry your 9 year old daughter with a man age 54?
I must say that I am not all into laws and regulations and all the considerations made to form certain rules and regulations, but I bet that certain laws introduced in the secular world knowing that it’s not wise to marry too young people since they’re not mature enough in taking responsibilities as couple in marriage that is supposed to make them stand on their own feet. It only tells that a secular developing world is better in addressing this problem than your so called holy book of all time and all place. You muslims have tried very hard even on the “words” game to justify it because you can’t annul what you have got in your Koran. The “attack” is not attack at all if you see with clear mind that it is only meant to reveal the truth.

yes offcourse that was what paul said , and that’s what i said that it’s wrong . the verses didn’t say that , so that my comment was that he is wrong becuase the verses talking about taking slaves as wives not taking them as object of sex

let Paul clarifiies this further, but I remember discussing this in other thread with you that you admit that those slaves women are not considered free women, thus not the same level as wives, unless until the master died, and that also with the condition that they bore children for the master. So…when does that mean that it elevate this women to the wive-hood? you are the one playing with words, you think since we don’t know Arab language, you can always go escaping this argument.

okey , i wanna to trust you, just show me comparisons , that’s all i ask

read for your self the bible and all its shining glorious teaching, But with your preconception, I guess it will be hard to admit.

im not talking about what you see in community , i’m talking about what we see in your scripture

I am only stating the main line, but you can find the verses in the bible yourself:

• that the women were entrusted as the witness of Jesus resurrection at the time that women were not hold the trust of witness.
• that Mary was entrusted with God’s plan to be the mother of the saviour.

-that women are equal to men in all the teachings.

-that we can find women talking and discussing things with men in equal manner as in the bible.

and many others I supposed you might find your self if you read the bible.
Btw community situation is a reflection of what they believe, and supported by the teachings that they hold. I believe Christian community has endorsed the belief that men and women are equal well, as opposed to many Muslim countries when women are still facing so many oppression.

which country ?

well I have to get back to that thread. I believe that you also listed in that thread but you probably want to escape this as well.

well , actually there’s no doubts that she is one of his wives , it’s something known to christians and muslims ( except our friend Pual )

Yeah…I really have to dig this out first to believe what you said, but curiously speaking, what was the whole situation that entangled this woman to Muhammad, I believe certain war and booty reward situation.

even if the verse refere to the young girls it dosn’t mean that they was married before puberty
scientifically puberty in body and mind start to appear about two years before the first period

really…really…? that they start thinking as adolescent before they get their menstruation? and that only signifies Islam’s teaching that women before menstruation can get married…and later can be divorced. What ridiculous thing! And you keep thinking that this is instruction from God. Wake up…!!!

pedophilia has nothing to to with the age of marriage , in islam you can marry the girl in the age of puberty , in the age when she can bear children

what about you religion ? or did your God forgot to inform you the age of marraige ?
do you know that it was custom between jews to marry in this age , did jesus show any objections for marriage with little girls or did he forgot ?

Yeah…there are several tradition of some ethnics, may be they’re still around that they marry young man and young girl at the very young age to bond two families from earlier time so that they won’t belong to other family. But this is about young man and young women, not young women with old men…that’s pedophilia as Muhammad had practiced. I don’t know that the Jews practiced young marriage at that time, but I believe it’s the same situation with that ethnic marriage I mentioned before, but I don’t believe any Jew would still do that, and they certainly didn’t learn from the Muslim. You on the other hand can’t annul that rule since it’s in your book. Why do Jesus have to address the age of marriage that when all the responsibilities of a wife is clearly mention in the bible, and it’s clearly understood that such responsibilities can not be hold upon a little young girl. Understand?

 

[ZAKI]

If a man does not allow me to travel alone - he is oppressing me and therefore I have no need for him

i would recommend you stop being a christian then because you obviously haven’t read ur own bible
here are two verses. one from the old testament and one from the new testament

exodus 21:7-when a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of the six years as the men are
1 timothy 2:11-14 - women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. i do not let women teach men or have authority over them. let them listen quietly. for god made Adam (pbuh) and afterwards he made Eve. and it was the women, not Adam (pbuh) who was deceived by satan, and sin was the result.

soooo… when r u considering abandoning religion???

wasalam

 

[ZAKI]

i would recommend you stop being a christian then because you obviously haven’t read ur own bible
here are two verses. one from the old testament and one from the new testament

exodus 21:7-when a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of the six years as the men are
1 timothy 2:11-14 - women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. i do not let women teach men or have authority over them. let them listen quietly. for god made Adam (pbuh) and afterwards he made Eve. and it was the women, not Adam (pbuh) who was deceived by satan, and sin was the result.

soooo… when r u considering abandoning religion???

wasalam

here are some of the bible’s glorious teachings elwill and i’ve got some more “glorious teachings” if you want them.

wasalam akhi

 

[seraphime2008]

i would recommend you stop being a christian then because you obviously haven’t read ur own bible
here are two verses. one from the old testament and one from the new testament

exodus 21:7-when a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of the six years as the men are
1 timothy 2:11-14 - women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. i do not let women teach men or have authority over them. let them listen quietly. for god made Adam (pbuh) and afterwards he made Eve. and it was the women, not Adam (pbuh) who was deceived by satan, and sin was the result.

soooo… when r u considering abandoning religion???

wasalam

EXODUS belongs to OT. As I said before, no use to use this, OT can only be seen through the light of NT, for such rules and regulations, they don’t apply anymore since Jesus has come to let us see what is the real core teaching that’s behind all those seemed old teaching that is to Love God and Love our own fellow human.

As for Timothy: I clearly explain to you that certainly Paul was addressing certain people of early Christian with certain traditions. He was just thinking to voice first what they belief but also he said this:
1Cor 11:11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord.
1Cor 11:12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.
so…though Eve was deceived first, it was Adam who was entrusted the instruction of not taking that fruit. As I said before Adam was guilty of letting himself break the instuction . So what’s the point? By this we have to leave our religion? Obviously, we will get back hundred years if we have to follow Muhammad.

 

[ZAKI]

EXODUS belongs to OT. As I said before, no use to use this, OT can only be seen through the light of NT, for such rules and regulations, they don’t apply anymore since Jesus has come to let us see what is the real core teaching that’s behind all those seemed old teaching that is to Love God and Love our own fellow human.

As for Timothy: I clearly explain to you that certainly Paul was addressing certain people of early Christian with certain traditions. He was just thinking to voice first what they belief but also he said this:
1Cor 11:11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord.
1Cor 11:12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.
so…though Eve was deceived first, it was Adam who was entrusted the instruction of not taking that fruit. As I said before Adam was guilty of letting himself break the instuction . So what’s the point? By this we have to leave our religion? Obviously, we will get back hundred years if we have to follow Muhammad.

what so u give me a verse from the bible that shows equality between women and men? i could do that as well with the Quran.
no i was talking to jagasaki who was outspoken on being alone and independant. and if we want to follow jesus we will have to go back over two thousand years.

wasalam

 

[seraphime2008]

and if we want to follow jesus we will have to go back over two thousand years.

Really? Don’t you think most of the west countries which are so much more developed compared to Muslim countries, such as Australia in which you’re living, wchich are very much contributed by the teaching of Christ reminds you of the living situation back 2000 years ago?

 

[planten]

This thread for those who say Islam grants equal treatment for woman and that Islam is the best religion for her, here are some authentic references which shows how Islam degraded the woman to the lowest level, even the secular laws are better than that.

Sam, is there any status for women in christianity? Please tell. Do they have any rights as per bible? If Yes, then quote. Do they have any right on the property of their husbands or fathers, as per bible, please quote. I feel that you have no law for the women’s rights.

01) Woman can be beaten.
(Quran 4:34):
“…and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them;…”

وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ
​

That is a good thing, to beat the defaulter. You have no law except “Love Thy Enemy.” Is that any sensible thing?

02) Female inheritance is half the male and even less than that in some situations.
(Quran 4:11):
“Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half;…”

يُوصِيكُمُ اللَّهُ فِي أَوْلَادِكُمْ لِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الْأُنْثَيَيْنِ
​

Again samething. Do you have any law for the inheritance of woman. Do not talk about the present day. Talk from your lovely book and bring anything about the inheritance for women. You had practically dis-inherited the women.

03) Unlimited polygamy & divorce.
(Quran 4:3):
“…marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four;…”

وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تُقْسِطُوا فِي الْيَتَامَى فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ مَثْنَى وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ
​

**That is okay and practical. Your system is impractical. Church has been teaching that there is never to be a divorce. Christians revolted against it and made their own laws. Where went your bible on that day when christians applied to the courts for divorce? Your religion had fully failed (gone with the wind) on that day and the religion of Islam was proved true and practical.

Polygamy is similar. It is good and necessary sometime. But islam says that one wife is the best. Then there are conditions in Islam for having a second wife. There is no harm in having a second wife ( by marriage ) instead of what your people are doing, having sex with secretaries and concubines. That is a sinful life. Islam does not allow it.**

04) Women are majority of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1982:
…I saw Hell also. No such (abominable) sight have I ever seen as that which I saw today; and I observed that most of its inhabitants were women. They said: Messenger of Allah, on what account is it so? He said: For their ingratitude or disbelief (bi-kufraihinna). It was said: Do they disbelieve in Allah? He said: (Not for their disbelief in God) but for their ingratitude to their husbands and ingratitude to kindness. If you were to treat one of them kindly for ever, but if she later saw anything (displeasing) in you, she would say: i have never seen any good in you.

صحيح مسلم:
ورأيت النار فلم أر كاليوم منظرا قط ورأيت أكثر أهلها النساء قالوا بم يا رسول الله قال ‏ ‏بكفرهن ‏ ‏قيل أيكفرن بالله قال ‏ ‏بكفر ‏ ‏العشير ‏ ‏وبكفر الإحسان لو أحسنت إلى إحداهن الدهر ثم رأت منك شيئا قالت ما رأيت منك خيرا قط ‏
​

I do not enter into hadith matters. But that must be true when the hell will have most of the sinning christian ladies in it too.

05) Women are the fuel of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1926:
…He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell.

صحيح مسلم:
ثم مضى حتى أتى النساء فوعظهن وذكرهن فقال ‏ ‏تصدقن فإن أكثركن حطب جهنم
​

**Again some Hadith. We have known that bible blames Eve for the first sin. She misled her husband too. There are some very derogatory words written in the bible about women. Bible blamed Eve. But Quran never blamed Eve. Is that not a superior point in favor of Islam?? That is good point for Islam where the church has let down all the women of the world for ever for the original sin.

Islam does not believe in original sin anyway. It also does not blame Eve alone for anything. How much better that is for all the ladies from islam whereas they are blamed for the sin by the church.**.

**I feel that church never gave any good life to the women. Elwill has pointed out most of the problems in church about women. I know that the christians believed the women had no soul. So they were like animals. We will keep on discussing this topic about women in Islam compared to women in Christianity with the help of Elwill and zaki. But it is difficult to discuss anything with the catholics because they do not have any law. There is nothing in the bibleNT about anything. All was in the bibleOT which the church has discarded.

Still I admire the Jews who have a law and that was a very good law for mankind. Even if that law was implemented today, it would do lot of good for the whole world.**