Woman in priesthood

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Numbers 12;1-10
While they were in Hazeroth, Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses on the pretext of the marriage he had contracted with a Cushite woman. They complained, “Is it through Moses alone that the LORD speaks? Does he not speak through us also?” And the LORD heard this. Now, Moses himself was by far the meekest man on the face of the earth. So at once the LORD said to Moses and Aaron and Miriam, “Come out, you three, to the meeting tent.” And the three of them went. Then the LORD came down in the column of cloud, and standing at the entrance of the tent, called Aaron and Miriam. When both came forward, he said, “Now listen to the words of the LORD: Should there be a prophet among you, in visions will I reveal myself to him, in dreams will I speak to him; Not so with my servant Moses! Throughout my house he bears my trust: face to face I speak to him, plainly and not in riddles. The presence of the LORD he beholds. Why, then, did you not fear to speak against my servant Moses?” So angry was the LORD against them that when he departed, and the cloud withdrew from the tent, there was Miriam, a snow-white leper! When Aaron turned and saw her a leper,
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Seems to me that individuals should be cautious in telling the Lord that He must ordain them.
 
short, succinct, sweet
Women and the Priesthood by Alice von Hildebrand and Peter Kreeft, logical arguments against by PK in his inimitable way, mystery of femininity by Alice. Franciscan University Press UP-172, get it from Ignatius Press
 
In our age where differences between the sexes are disappearing, it is no wonder confused individuals see no problem with women priestesses. I would first point out that, despite what many modern feminists may say, there is indeed a deep difference between men and women. Following the principle in psychology called psychosomatic unity, which states that the mind and body are not isolated but fused as one, one can only logically deduced that since sex is part of our bodies it therefore has an effect on our souls. Our souls are “stamped” as either male or female. Men and women are both different, equal, but different. We each function in different ways and complement each other’s differences. There is nothing wrong nor inferior about being different, which is in direct opposition to our modern American god of egalitarianism.
Having said that, it would be useful to point out that Christ only ordained men, i.e. the apostles. The common rebuttal to this argument taht the reason Christ did that was because it would not have gone well with society leaves much to be wanted. First, Christ never hesitated defying the social norms of his day, he did it rather frequently I might add. This is obvious to anyone who even takes a cursory glance at the Gospels. Secondly, it would not be all that out of place for Christ to ordain women in his day, many other religions of that time did in fact have priestesses. It would not be as radical as many radical feminists and other moderns would have you believe. Now, if Christ only ordained men, then he must have intended only men to be ordained. Who are we to change the words of God himself? As C.S. Lewis says, to argue with God is like cutting off the tree you are sitting on, not a very wise thing to do.
Christ intended the role to the priesthood to males exclusively, but not to the detriment of women. Once again, being different does not imply inferiority. Women have a special and varied roles in the Church. Quite honestly, sometimes I feel a bit of jealousy. To think, women are priveleged to have lives growing within them!
 
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ILdoc82:
I have always felt the best argument against women Priestesses (other than theological) are the women themselves who are clammoring for ordination.
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http://www.womenpriests.org/images/knudsen2.gif
http://www.womenpriests.org/images3/archdeas.gif
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This cant be from a Catholic Church? Where did you get these disturbing pictures at??

Anyone who is still arguing for women Priests need to get over it…never will happen…ever.

These pictures are disturbing to me…ugh. Sure are some wierdo’s out there.
 
I always tell people who ask the question: “Why can’t women be ordained?” that the Blessed Virgin, who was in the upper room when Christ ordained the Apostles, never claimed Ordination for herself. She submitted to the will of her Son.
 
*Priesthood and Diaconate *by Gerhard Muller. As a Professor of Dogmatic Theology in Munich, Gerhard Muller argues theologically and conclusively from Scritpure, Tradition, and the Magisterium.
 
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CathAnFanatical:
This cant be from a Catholic Church? Where did you get these disturbing pictures at??

Anyone who is still arguing for women Priests need to get over it…never will happen…ever.

These pictures are disturbing to me…ugh. Sure are some wierdo’s out there.
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Anglican\Epsicopalian; the big one is '“Bishop” Chilton Knudsen
 
It’s what you can expect from women priests in the Catholic Church- butch haircuts and prayers to the Goddess Sophia-

“How can we say that we minister to women and say nothing about the fact that a married man can be an ordained deacon but a married woman cannot, despite 14 centuries of tradition of women deaconesses to counter whatever theological, historical and biological arguments to the contrary!” Sr. Joan Chittister OSB

http://www.pcusa.org/pcnews/photos/chittister.jpg
 
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Brendan:
Anglican\Epsicopalian; the big one is '“Bishop” Chilton Knudsen
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Thank you for looking this up. No one should post pictures aon this, a Catholic website, and pretend they are Catholic if they are not.
 
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pnewton:
Thank you for looking this up. No one should post pictures aon this, a Catholic website, and pretend they are Catholic if they are not.
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Where was there any “pretend” that they are Catholic- it was simply a visual depicting the type of women that seek ordination- What is wrong with that “aon” this website?
 
Tanais:

Excellent, excellent post!! I couldn’t agree more. I used to think women should be priests, but after having read Vatican docs and stuff…no.

I also really, really dislike when folks say that Christ didn’t ordain women because of the times He lived in. IMO, this borders almost on blasphemy because Christ can do anything He wants, and as you point out, He broke taboos all over the place…
 
Thanks Kim, I really appreciate the feedback! There are many other good resources and arguments on the subject that you may want to look up as well. Anyways, I have always wondered, Episcopalians that I know call their priests father, would they call “priestesses” mother? Just wondering…
 
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Fast_ed75:
Where was there any “pretend” that they are Catholic- it was simply a visual depicting the type of women that seek ordination
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The discussion is women in the priesthood on a catholic website and the statement was made “the women themselves who are clammoring for ordination.” An Episcopal service / liturgy / clergy should have been labeled as so. Failure to do is misleading and implies that this are Catholic women “clammoring for ordination” (since that is what was under discussion).

A picture is worth a thousand words, but they are often used just to belittle and avoid relevant arguements.
 
Hi I don’t really have any resources or books to share with you. But since The Sacrament of Holy Order is just that a Sacrament we have no power over it, meaning we CAN NOT change it. Jesus chose and instituted 12, all men.
  • Fr. John Corapi
 
I have been struggling with this issue myself for several years now. Thank you for the beautiful analogy that compares the female priesthood with male motherhood. Women were made to be mothers, “conquerors of Lucifer;” men were made to be fathers (of children and the faithful), “shepherds of life.” That makes so much sense to me.

What makes a little less sense to me is this: yes, Christ did set the stage for an all-male priesthood. But what if his apostles were all 30-something-year-old, left-handed Jews? I am certain that they weren’t, but surely they had other things in common. Would that imply that the Church can only ordain 30-year-old left-handed Jews?

Also–I don’t think that women aspiring to be priests is an abomination. I think it is sad. I used to want to be a priest because I felt unimportant as a young girl, and I felt compelled into a position of spiritual leadership to compensate. That is sad, not offensive. Women who feel that way should seek help, and others should be quick to teach them–not to reprimand them.
 
Men cannot be mothers and women cannot be fathers.

The primary purpose of the priesthood is the continuation of the sacrifice of the Mass until the end of time. It is but one sacrifice, not many, and Christ is the principal celebrant. The priest acts “in the person of Christ” allowing himself to be used for this purpose.

Ordination of women would be invalid, i.e., not effective. But if it were effective, it would virtually force a change in Christ’s gender. Bill Buck, in a previous post, used the reverse analogy of a man attemptimg to give birth. It’s not possible. But even if it were possible, it wouldn’t be right.

JimG
 
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kfarose2585:
What makes a little less sense to me is this: yes, Christ did set the stage for an all-male priesthood. But what if his apostles were all 30-something-year-old, left-handed Jews? I am certain that they weren’t, but surely they had other things in common. Would that imply that the Church can only ordain 30-year-old left-handed Jews?
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If Jesus had done that and it were important, I assume it would have been recorded somewhere.

One thing to consider is how the Church tradition carried out the example set by Jesus. For example, one could have concluded that only Jews could become priests. But, one of the early infallible statements from St. Peter was that being a Gentile did not bar one from becoming fully Christian. The Church did not bar gentile converts from becoming priests, pure and simple. It did, however, carry out the tradition of having exclusively male priests.

I try not to speculate on the reasons for this – the 2,000 years of history and the definitive, irreformable teaching from Pope John Paul II are enough for me. I also don’t know why we must use water for baptism and why only bread and wine can become the Eucharist. I can think of some probable reasons, but my speculations could be wrong.
 
This issue is more far reaching than priests. I personally don’t think that women or girls should fullfill any duties during the mass. I belive that the use of women/girls as Altar servers, EM’s, Lectors, etc has been widely abused.
 
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LariamTox:
This issue is more far reaching than priests. I personally don’t think that women or girls should fullfill any duties during the mass. I belive that the use of women/girls as Altar servers, EM’s, Lectors, etc has been widely abused.
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:amen:
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PrayingTwice:
I would like some suggestions of resources (books and internet sites) explaining the exclusion of women in the priesthood. This is a tough issue with a lot of catholics and non-catholics alike.
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On the Eastern side of things, There’s the collection: Women and The Priesthood edited by Thomas Hopko with chapters by: Kallistos Ware, Nicholas Afanasiev, Georges Barrois, Kyriaki FitzGerald, et al. w/ introduction by Alexander Schememann. (St. Vladimir’s Press, 1983).
 
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CathAnFanatical:
This cant be from a Catholic Church? Where did you get these disturbing pictures at??

Anyone who is still arguing for women Priests need to get over it…never will happen…ever.

These pictures are disturbing to me…ugh. Sure are some wierdo’s out there.
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I guess I’m missing something in these pictures. What horror is brought to light in these women. I don’t see any horns! :rolleyes:
Aside from the above, women have no business being priests. Read the scripture and the teachings of our church, there is no room for compromise. Women have other rolls that need their attention. How about teaching youth groups moral theology. Maybe we would have less abortion if we quit trying to obtain the things we don’t need and do the things we should. Such as teaching right and wrong. What could be more important than that?
maggiec
 
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