Woman in Revelation

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But it is! It can’t be her, because she didn’t have labor pains. It’s like saying the serpent in the Garden of Eden wasn’t Satan and then trying to go backwards to vindicate that opinion. It doesn’t make logical sense to me.
More logic… OK, I think I can put it together using the logic of the Bible. This builds on ryanoneil’s post (which I thank you for brother. 👍 I’ll have to read Isaiah again regarding the virgin daughter Israel.)

…and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, "Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed." (Luke 2:34-35)

Mary’s heart was pierced at the vision of her son crucified. And the Church teaches that the blood and water which flowed from the side of Christ at that Crucifixion was the sacramental birth of the Church.

For it was from the side of Christ as he slept the sleep of death upon the cross that there came forth 'the wondrous sacrament of the whole Church." (CCC 1067)

Mary gave birth to Christ. Christ has one body. That body is the Church. When Mary gave birth to Jesus, she was not just giving birth to a human body, that of her son, but to his entire body; giving birth to the entire Church. She may not have had labor pains when her pregnancy was over and her son Jesus was born, but that’s not the point. The Church IS her son’s body, and the Chuch was born sacramentally at the crucifixion when blood and water flowed from Christ’s side. Mary sat there and watched that, and experienced great pain. That’s why the Church teaches that Mary is the co-redemtrix. Cannot Mary’s pain at the crucifixion, when the waters of baptism and the blood of the Eucharist flowed from Christ’s side giving sacramental birth to the Church also be labor pains, pains experienced at the birth of her son’s body which is the Church?

There is no magesterial teaching here. All of this is only my opinion and I don’t mean to put anyone down and really don’t wish to be uncharitable here. But the book of Revelation was placed at the end of the Bible by our Holy Church for a reason; they assume that you read the rest of the book first. And this brings me to my original point, which I’ll state again. We can try to muscle scripture, to reason it, and to make it fit into flow charts and neat little bulleted lists of verses which back up our own views, but that is not the way it was meant to be read. And we must be very careful before we rule out one meaning absolutely. People are still pulling gleaming diamonds out of the mine of Scripture 2000 years after it was written.

Sure, there is a lot to be gained from studying the sacred texts logically, through exegisis, literary styles and understanding the historical, social and economic context under which the authors and their intended audience operated, but they are also deep spiritual works. The proper context for parsing each word and studying the deepest meaning of the texts is to do so spiritually. Lectio Divina, praying the bible slowly is one way to do that. The Brother’s at the monastery I visit occasionally call it “Feasting on God’s word”. One Brother said to me, “Scripture is like a giant buffet. You know you aren’t going to get to everything but you eat as much as you can anyway.”

A great pair of ten minute videos about lectio divina by Archbisop Thomas Collins is at **archtoronto.org/events_news/lectio_video_intro.html **for anyone who is interested.

-Tim-
 
You’re welcome Timothy H! 👍 Maybe it would help to think of it this way Ite ad Ioseph. The birth of the child is not only talking about his incarnation (birth) but it is also talking about his rebirth (resurrection). Notice the dragon wants to devour the child in death, but he was caught up to God and to his throne. This describes the Ascension. We know this because the rod of iron is mentioned, which alludes to Ps 2:9. It was a coronation psalm that celbrates the enthonement and adoption (ie., divine birth) of the Davidic kings of Israel.

We ourselves are proclaiming this good news to you that what God promised our ancestors he has brought to fulfillment for us, (their) children, by raising up Jesus, as it is written in the second psalm, 'You are my son; this day I have begotten you. (Acts 13:32-33)

And notice acts also talks about that same psalm in reference to Jesus’ resurrection and ascension. And here as well.

who is the refulgence of his glory, the very imprint of his being, and who sustains all things by his mighty word. When he had accomplished purification from sins, he took his seat at the right hand of the Majesty on high, as far superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; this day I have begotten you”? Or again: “I will be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me”? And again, when he leads the first-born into the world, he says: “Let all the angels of God worship him.” Of the angels he says: “He makes his angels winds and his ministers a fiery flame”; but of the Son: "Your throne, O God, stands forever and ever; and a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. (Heb 1:3-8)

So Mary suffered through birth pangs and anguish for delivery (Jesus had to die before he was reborn). Think of delievery (ie “deliver us Lord”) in terms of growning for redemption. It hurt her to have her redemption/delivery be her own son’s death, which is why I referenced the pain Christ’s infant Church went through (Jn 16:20-22). But he rose to the Father and was seated at the right hand of power.
 
It must first be remembered that the section from the beginning of the opening of the seven seals in Re 6 everything is a part of the contents of the scroll. The scroll is the Scroll of Destiny on which the fate of the universe is inscribed. The heavenly woman is therefore a prototype of that which is to occur on earth (and much of which already has happened at the time of the vision). The woman cannot be Mary. The depiction of the woman as clothed with the sun and with the moon under her feet and with twelve stars recalls Joseph’s dream where there are only 11 stars since Joseph himself is not included in the count. It speaks of her giving birth to a manchild who is snatched up into heaven and thus saved from destruction by the Dragon. It then speaks of the Dragon’s persecution of the woman AND OF THE REST OF HER CHILDREN. The rest of her children refer to both the Jews and the Church so the woman is the prototype of God’s people.
Compare
Rev12:2-5 with Matt 2:1-13
Rev 12:6 with Matt 2:13-15
Rev 12:7-17 with Matt 2:16-23
Woman/son Mary/Jesus
 
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