Woman with managerial jobs

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Let me tell you a story. When St. Francis founded the Poor Clares, it was expected that he would be their superior and that he would write their rule. Afterall, Benedict was Scholastica’s superior. Dominic was the superior for the Dominican nuns and Augustine for the Augustinian nuns.

Instead, Francis ammended the rule of the friars and prohibitted them from even entering the convents of the nuns. He believed that women and men were equal; therefore, Clare and her sisters should govern themselves without the interference of the friars. To this day, their superiors are their CEOs.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂

Gee, another reason to love St. Francis!
 
Let me tell you a story. When St. Francis founded the Poor Clares, it was expected that he would be their superior and that he would write their rule. Afterall, Benedict was Scholastica’s superior. Dominic was the superior for the Dominican nuns and Augustine for the Augustinian nuns.
:rotfl:

On another note, we have a female chancellor. What happens is that the Vicar General is a priest and he grants faculties. The Chancellor runs the diocese. She’s excellent. She and the bishop make a great team.

Our Superintendant of Catholic Schools is also a woman and she’s very good. She’s very pro-life education in Catholic Schools.

My boss, the Archdiocesan Director of Respect Life is a woman. She runs an organization with over 200 people, five centers and coordinates more than 20 programs. There are deacons, priests, brothers and sisters working for her. We don’t care that she is a woman or lay. She’s good and makes things happen.

The diocese recently hired a new Vicar for Religious. This is the person who deals with religious superiors and oversees everything that has to do with religiuos in a diocese. This position is usually held by a priest and usually a secular priest, which is ironic. Our new Vicar is a Sister, a very young one, about 30 yrs old. We have over 150 young sisters in our diocese. Anyway, she’s better than any priest that we have ever had at that post.

When I was a Dean at a university, the President was a woman, the Chairman of the Board of Trustees was a woman and I loved them. They were good at what they did.

Maybe it’s because I’m Franciscan, as I said, we’re taught that men and women are equals, to the point that we see Francis and Clare as equals and we would never think of interfering or discouraging a woman, religious or lay, from taking charge.

Let me tell you another story. When I was very young (was not born a brother), I was married and we had three children. When my kids were 9, 7, and 4, there was an accident. My wife, father and 7 yr old son were killed. I was left alone with a 9 yr old daughter and a 4 yr old son with Asperger Syndrome (a type of autism).

Everyone thought that I should give the kids to an aunt or a grandmother or that I should marry again, so they would have a mother. I was determined to raise them, autism and all.

Fastforward 21 years. My daughter is a neuropsychologist and my autistic son is an independant artist who illustrates children’s books and does art for advertising campaigns. The biggest trouble that my son ever landed in was not doing homework. My daughter has never been in trouble, yet. She was engaged to be married and terminated the engagement, because the fiance asked for sex before the wedding. Her position was, “If he doesn’t understand my values now, when we’re still ‘lovey dovey’ whill he understand them in 20 years?” They both finished school. She has a PhD and he has an MA.

I went on to become a Franciscan. They decided to buy a house for the brothers to use to serve dads in crisis pregnancies. I’m very proud of them.

However, for many years, I held a job, cooked, cleaned, did laundry, went to parent meetings, helped with homework, took my kid to every therapist in town, tutored my kids and their friends, and I even baked cookies for my daughter’s Girl Scout troop when they went camping. That one I never understood. I thought Girl Scouts came with their own cookies. 🤷

Point is, men and women do things differently, but we can do them equally well.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
, and I even baked cookies for my daughter’s Girl Scout troop when they went camping. That one I never understood. I thought Girl Scouts came with their own cookies. 🤷

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
You’d think, wouldn’t you?!
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Thanks Br. Jay, this made my day!! 😃
 
Thank you again for your answer. My intention to start this thread was not to make a statement, nor to start a discussion. it is just that I am not sure about the Church’s teaching towards certain aspects of life and that is why I asked you if my ideas were conform the church teaching and I appreciate that I received an answer on my question now. So please don’t feel attacked…
 
Brother JR, you made excellent points. And maybe women and men tend to see things differently, but it’s just a tendency. We all have talents and gifts and many times they span the genders.

At home and while sailing, whenever there’s some sort of repair job that needs to be accomplished that requires either balance, getting into a tight spot, or climbing, guess who gets to do it? Me, because I’m lightweight and nimble. The thinking is–“send the ballerina up the mast, she’s lighter than the rest of us!” I’ve been up the mast, on the roof of the house replacing loose shingles, and under the house (in the crawl space fixing wiring) scads of times, because it’s easier to get a welterweight in those positions than a guy who weighs two hundred pounds.

And with my husband in and out of the house at his booze-fueled whim, last night I was faced with a leaky faucet. Leaky UNDER the sink, meaning it needed to get fixed pronto unless I wanted a hole in the floor! I grabbed a pipe wrench, a flashlight, and some pipe goop and headed below. My elderly mother thought I should call my husband or some guy to come and fix it.

“Nah, no problem, Mom!” A few minutes later I was done. The leaky pipe joint didn’t seem to care that I was female!
 
Is it OK for a woman with grown up children has a managerial job? I work for a large organization and the department I work consist of about 50 people and our manager is a woman. On the one hand I think she does her work well, on the other hand it feels more natural to me if a man would do her job. In my opinion she does her work very well because she is very kind hearted and I would almost say a kind of mother for the employees and at the same time she is able to stand up as an authority and knows how to deal with difficult employees. She also has the reputation of being a good manager, better than our former male manager.
There are several key ways in which people respond differently to women and men who are leaders.

Power operates as a social structure, made up of numerous practices that maintain a cultural system of dominance. The practices that maintain a power system include patterns of discourse, shared understandings about and participation in a set of values, expectations, norms and roles. This social structure transcends, in some respects - the wishes or behaviour of any particular individual and has a tendency to shape decisions, interactions, and social relations to fit it. Responses to women and men in leadership roles are conditioned by a social structure traditionally dominated by men.

When women demonstrate competent leadership within an explicitly masculine arena - something that often requires the application of a “harder” leadership style, they are disliked and disparaged. Because of perceived incompatibility between the requirements of femininity and those of leadership, women are often required to “soften” their leadership styles to gain the approval of their constituents.

Women holding leadership roles in contexts currently considered masculine. That very “normalcy” will moderate public perceptions of gender and of leadership, gently re-shaping the social structure that has conditioned these perceptions. The significant changes in women’s access to leadership roles over the past few decades are a necessary, but still insufficient, prelude to a society in which women and men can claim a fair share of the challenges and opportunities associated with leadership.
 
There have been many great leaders throughout history that are noted to be “women.” I can understand that you would prefer one or the other as a supervisor. But it is best to view each, whether male or female, on their own merit. I’ve had decent women supervisors. Some of the worst have been men. I prefer to work with rational men, but enjoy working with some women as long as they keep it professional.

Try reading Judges 4 and 5. I believe you may discover that when men do not step up to the plate women not only will, but should be strong. My own personal opinion about women, though irrelevant, is that they are wonderful creatures of God and possess many characteristics that fascinate me with great marvel. St. Therese of Lisieux and St. Therese of Avalon, not to pass over St. Mary Magdalen and of course St. Mary the Virgin, our Blessed Mother. There are many others. Joan of Arc, for example. Some of the most orthodox Catholics I’ve known are women.

My favorite female manager was great. Good women managers are to be highly esteemed in my opinion, just as good men managers. My worst managers have been men. And I’m the guy that many women falsely accuse of some sort of male chauvinist. I’m not… at all. I don’t respect men that want to subdue women and women that want to subdue men. It’s the men and women that want to blur the differences between men and women that bother’s me. Running a family is not the same as running a business. When men fail to be strong leaders within the family, women ought to step up to the plate, bur respect the role of the man. Without a strong woman in my life, I would not be sitting her today.

RIght now, I’m a home dad. We switched roles so that we could get breaks from what we were doing previously and for me to return to school. She’s started a new found vocation and career as a teacher. Prior to this she was at home running a home daycare and lacked the desire and motivation to pursue anything beyond. But God touched her in a way no man could and found her new direction. It’s pretty amazing and how I’ve ended up wasting so much time on this board, to feel out what’s happening to us. She supervises teenagers and is a mentor teacher now. And that only after 3 years of teaching.

 
There are several key ways in which people respond differently to women and men who are leaders.

Power operates as a social structure, made up of numerous practices that maintain a cultural system of dominance. The practices that maintain a power system include patterns of discourse, shared understandings about and participation in a set of values, expectations, norms and roles. This social structure transcends, in some respects - the wishes or behaviour of any particular individual and has a tendency to shape decisions, interactions, and social relations to fit it. Responses to women and men in leadership roles are conditioned by a social structure traditionally dominated by men.

When women demonstrate competent leadership within an explicitly masculine arena - something that often requires the application of a “harder” leadership style, they are disliked and disparaged. Because of perceived incompatibility between the requirements of femininity and those of leadership, women are often required to “soften” their leadership styles to gain the approval of their constituents.

Women holding leadership roles in contexts currently considered masculine. That very “normalcy” will moderate public perceptions of gender and of leadership, gently re-shaping the social structure that has conditioned these perceptions. The significant changes in women’s access to leadership roles over the past few decades are a necessary, but still insufficient, prelude to a society in which women and men can claim a fair share of the challenges and opportunities associated with leadership.
Very true, thank you for this discerning post.
 
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.”
1 Timothy 2:12

I rest my case. =)
lol
 
“i do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.”
1 timothy 2:12

i rest my case. =)
lol
Having read the entire excerpt, Paul’s response appears to be consistent with both his instructions for the entire church and his overarching concern for Timothy. More so indicating that he was not addressing women here simply because they are women. The relevance of 1 Timothy 2:9-15 was written about the contemporary church, this is well grounded within the purpose of the entire book. Therefore the significance of these passages emerges out of a holistic reading of the text within its context.

(1 Timothy 2:9-15) When reading Paul’s instructions in providing an example of his correction of women who were involved in promoting different teaching in the church. This was in the face of threats to the faith of the church. Paul’s goal instruction, was to call for godliness: true knowledge of God reflected in a consistent lifestyle. Godliness is to be evidenced by self-control, quietness, submission, and continuing in faith, love, and holiness.

However in 1 Cor. 11:4-5, 13 were Paul experiences criticism and hostility toward himself - he speaks about the women praying and prophesying in church . (12:31; 14:1, 5, 31) He encourages the Corinthians generally to seek spiritual gifts, all of which are intended to be used in the public worship of the church. It appears that this is evidently directing encouragement to both women and men. If these women did not teach men in their public assemblies through prophesying, then there was no reason for these women to possess the spiritual gift of prophecy. Males and females are placed side by side here as “teachers.”

(Eph. 5:19; Col. 3:16) Paul also encourages Christians generally to speak to one another, to sing together, teaching and encouraging each other . There is no hint that such activities may not include women. Nor is there anything in Paul’s epistles that suggests that he would forbid women to baptise, to administer Communion, to counsel or encourage others, or to visit the sick and imprisoned.

(1 Cor. 14:34-35). “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church”. Regarding the roles women could occupy in the church. The word silent or quiet (hesuchia - Greek Lexicon) describes an attitude of peaceable acceptance, therefore my understanding is that Paul tells Timothy that the church is for prayer and that they will be able to live a **“quiet life,” **by which he certainly does not mean a silent one.

(1 Timothy 2:12) I do not permit a woman to** teach** (Didasko - Greek Lexicon) to have authority over a man; she must be silent." The word** teach ** or didasko - (Greek Lexicon) describes not to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses.

Christ does not call men to dominate over women or women to liberate from men. He calls both men and women to freedom — not freedom from each other, but freedom to serve one another in love. This freedom is available equally to men and women; and those who know this freedom in Christ will treat each other as equals without regard to whether the other person is male or female.
 
Having read the entire excerpt, Paul’s response appears to be consistent with both his instructions for the entire church and his overarching concern for Timothy. More so indicating that he was not addressing women here simply because they are women. The relevance of 1 Timothy 2:9-15 was written about the contemporary church, this is well grounded within the purpose of the entire book. Therefore the significance of these passages emerges out of a holistic reading of the text within its context.

(1 Timothy 2:9-15) When reading Paul’s instructions in providing an example of his correction of women who were involved in promoting different teaching in the church. This was in the face of threats to the faith of the church. Paul’s goal instruction, was to call for godliness: true knowledge of God reflected in a consistent lifestyle. Godliness is to be evidenced by self-control, quietness, submission, and continuing in faith, love, and holiness.
This seems to imply that only women would “build” such heresies…
Why do you think he addressed women and not all?
However in 1 Cor. 11:4-5, 13 were Paul experiences criticism and hostility toward himself - he speaks about the women praying and prophesying in church . (12:31; 14:1, 5, 31) He encourages the Corinthians generally to seek spiritual gifts, all of which are intended to be used in the public worship of the church. It appears that this is evidently directing encouragement to both women and men. If these women did not teach men in their public assemblies through prophesying, then there was no reason for these women to possess the spiritual gift of prophecy. Males and females are placed side by side here as “teachers.”
1 Cor. 11:4-5 is more about women covering their head than about asking women to pray and prophesyse.

The rest are about prohesysing and don’t forget that prophesysing is not the same as teaching or exercising authority!
(Eph. 5:19; Col. 3:16) Paul also encourages Christians generally to speak to one another, to sing together, teaching and encouraging each other . There is no hint that such activities may not include women. Nor is there anything in Paul’s epistles that suggests that he would forbid women to baptise, to administer Communion, to counsel or encourage others, or to visit the sick and imprisoned.
Baptising, administering Communion, counseling etc… are not in dispute here… Authority is. That is not exercising authority.
(1 Cor. 14:34-35). “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church”. Regarding the roles women could occupy in the church. The word silent or quiet (hesuchia - Greek Lexicon) describes an attitude of peaceable acceptance, therefore my understanding is that Paul tells Timothy that the church is for prayer and that they will be able to live a **“quiet life,” **by which he certainly does not mean a silent one.

(1 Timothy 2:12) I do not permit a woman to** teach** (Didasko - Greek Lexicon) to have authority over a man; she must be silent." The word** teach ** or didasko - (Greek Lexicon) describes not to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses.

Christ does not call men to dominate over women or women to liberate from men. He calls both men and women to freedom — not freedom from each other, but freedom to serve one another in love. This freedom is available equally to men and women; and those who know this freedom in Christ will treat each other as equals without regard to whether the other person is male or female.
Paul knows that Authority is not an antonym of Freedom. True Freedom is submission to the Authority of God.

It is funny that while we see Paul saying this about women he does not say the same about men. Why do you think it is so?
 
dskysmine, it’s possible that at that specific time at that specific location those specific women were asking questions during Mass. Paul may have just been saying “save the questions for after Mass, Mass is the time for Mass so be quiet during Mass”.
 
dskysmine, it’s possible that at that specific time at that specific location those specific women were asking questions during Mass. Paul may have just been saying “save the questions for after Mass, Mass is the time for Mass so be quiet during Mass”.
The quotation I provided does not mention Church. 1 Cor maybe… but even there it does not refer to a specific action, but to women’s actions in general.
 
The quotation I provided does not mention Church. 1 Cor maybe… but even there it does not refer to a specific action, but to women’s actions in general.
Paul didn’t need to specify the Church or parish, because the letter was addressed to the Church of Corinth aka the Diocese of Corinth, not the worldwide Church aka everyone in the Church.
 
Paul didn’t need to specify the Church or parish, because the letter was addressed to the Church of Corinth aka the Diocese of Corinth, not the worldwide Church aka everyone in the Church.
The quotation I provided is from Tim.
And if you consider that the Letters of Paul are not teachings to the whole Church you would have to reconsider a lot more than just this little situation…
 
The quotation I provided is from Tim.
And if you consider that the Letters of Paul are not teachings to the whole Church you would have to reconsider a lot more than just this little situation…
If it’s to Timothy then it’s possible it is directed to Timothy’s parishes, which Paul may have heard of some issues happening at those locations.

We do have some things to reconsider if this is the case. I suppose it’s a good thing we have an infallible Magisteruim who takes care of these things, eh?
 
If we’re going to hang on cap on one statement from Paul’s many statement, then all of you out there should be celibate. 😃

Fraternally,

Br.JR, OSF 🙂
 
Any way the discussion was about woman in managerial jobs and not about women’s roles with in the church.
 
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