women and rape

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If you think telling a woman she must carry the child of the man who ATTACKED HER isn’t challenging, that your either incredibly insensitive, or your missing the point.
Are you just saying that you would have a hard time explaining the position to a rape victim? Ok, I’ll give you that. Maybe a woman who has been raped can only see the child as an abomination. She may also feel that way after the child is born.
 
Are you just saying that you would have a hard time explaining the position to a rape victim? Ok, I’ll give you that. .
Good enough. Thank you.

Again, for the 287th time, I am pro-life in all situations, including this one. It’s just much more thorny than a “I’m pregnant and I don’t want to keep it” abortion.
 
If pro-lifers are going to be honest, we should admit that the rape “exception” to abortion is probably among the hardest to defend. Hear me well-I am pro-life, even in the case of rape. However, it’s still uncomofortable to defend.

I would listen to the victim, make sure the offender gets the gas chamber, and then try to convince her that the baby of the rapist is an innocent person, and does not deserve to die for the sins of the father.

Again, I am 100 percent pro-life, but the rape exception is a thorny issue.
I agree with you. I am pro-life all the way but defending the issue with rape victims is the hardest to do with others. We are looked at as monsters for saying that a poor girl who has been raped can’t have an abortion.
 
I agree with you. I am pro-life all the way but defending the issue with rape victims is the hardest to do with others. We are looked at as monsters for saying that a poor girl who has been raped can’t have an abortion.
Yup. I’ve got the “what are you talking about?!” look before when I defend this as well.
 
I think emergency contraception should be offered and the test requirement for ovulation should be removed from the requirements. Most women ovulate a dozen times a year - it is not a sign of pregnancy. The marital act is suposed to be unitive. Rape is violent. If the pregnancy test is positive right after a rape, the pregnancy did not result from the rape. Once already pregnant (long enough to get a positive test result) , another pregnancy will not be possible, so that test is worthwhile.

It’s very easy for someone who’s never been raped nor pregnant with a child resulting from rape to say, “carry the baby”. When it’s YOU who have to explain how you got pregnant, and you have been raped - well, it’s different. Among my family and friends, only one close friend knows I was violently raped in 1986. It is extremely difficult to talk about. I cannot support an attitude that it’s an “easy” call. Nothing easy about it.

Further, it’s disingenuous to claim pro-life views while advocating for the death penalty. I would sooner take a morning-after pill after rape when ovulating to prevent the potential for pregnancy, than to take the life of rapist. In the first case, I am stopping the potential for a life to form and in the second, I am taking an existing life. He who is without sin, cast the first stone.

Nor do I believe in torture even of heinous criminals. Separate them from society and make it permanent, but the infliction of deliberate pain on such people serves no purpose.
 
I think emergency contraception should be offered and the test requirement for ovulation should be removed from the requirements.
I
t’s very easy for someone who’s never been raped nor pregnant with a child resulting from rape to say, “carry the baby”.
Further, it’s disingenuous to claim pro-life views while advocating for the death penalty. .
A question, asked out of my own ignorance-Does the church allow contraception in that case?
 
I think emergency contraception should be offered and the test requirement for ovulation should be removed from the requirements. Most women ovulate a dozen times a year - it is not a sign of pregnancy.
Actually, the requirement is from the Catholic Church. Secular hospitals offer the emergency contraception with only a pregnancy test. There is no secular requirement for the ovulation test, though a patient can ask for one. Some secular hospitals don’t carry the ovulation test. Catholic hospitals should have it in stock though…
 
A question, asked out of my own ignorance-Does the church allow contraception in that case?
They allow emergency contraception in the case of rape, but only if the victim tests negative to a pregnancy test, and only if the ovulation test indicates ovulation is not or has not taken place. That’s so that ovulation is inhibited and conception doesn’t take place in the first place. This does not in any way suggest that the Church allows contraception in the case of married couples.
 
A question, asked out of my own ignorance-Does the church allow contraception in that case?
Yes, it does allow for the morning after pill in this case.

Rence,

I can see where you are coming from. It’s all a matter of perspective though. See, abortion (no matter what the MSM tells you) is intensely psychologically damaging to women. I personally could never tell a woman: “No! You have to carry this rapists child at least until it’s born!” First of all - that is the wrong perspective of the issue. I think the better way to tell her is:

“We all love and support you. Your child needs you right now though. Yes, he or she has a terrible father, but he or she is YOUR child - not his. No one can expect you to raise him or her, but you can give this child a shot at a wonderful life by adopting him or her to a wonderful family that will love him/her. You will move on from this tragedy - we will help you, and your child can too. It’s going to be hard, but we are here with you every step of the way so you can walk away from this whole, happy, and with no regrets because you are a wonderful woman who deserves that.”
 
I can see where you are coming from. It’s all a matter of perspective though. See, abortion (no matter what the MSM tells you) is intensely psychologically damaging to women. I personally could never tell a woman: “No! You have to carry this rapists child at least until it’s born!” First of all - that is the wrong perspective of the issue. I think the better way to tell her is:

“We all love and support you. Your child needs you right now though. Yes, he or she has a terrible father, but he or she is YOUR child - not his. No one can expect you to raise him or her, but you can give this child a shot at a wonderful life by adopting him or her to a wonderful family that will love him/her. You will move on from this tragedy - we will help you, and your child can too. It’s going to be hard, but we are here with you every step of the way so you can walk away from this whole, happy, and with no regrets because you are a wonderful woman who deserves that.”
I completely agree with you. In fact, I think someone is more likely to make the right choice when faced with the situation in your latter paragraph, than when faced with the former.
 
Actually it wouldn’t be correct to say that “The Church allows it” . It is still under discussion. The US Bishop’s are allowing it for now. Many moralists are saying it cannot be used at all.

lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2008/feb/08022906
The US Bishops are within their authority to issue such a statement. That’s why they’re here afterall. And I can understand some people being opposed to this allowance, but I for one am grateful for it.
 
The US Bishops are within their authority to issue such a statement. That’s why they’re here afterall. And I can understand some people being opposed to this allowance, but I for one am grateful for it.
My comment stands. When people say “the church” they mean Rome. Rome has not given it widespread approval. Hopefully when the discussions over the actual abortafacient properties etc are finalized the Church will give a firm statement.

I don’t have a problem with it when the testing is done. However , my experience is that in the field it is not being done. I hope that Catholics will be knowledgeable and request it. Although, under the effects of stress and trauma of rape one could hardly be expected to think of everything. I also hope that Catholic hospitals will use the appropriate protocols and explain why they are doing them.
 
My comment stands. When people say “the church” they mean Rome. Rome has not given it widespread approval. Hopefully when the discussions over the actual abortafacient properties etc are finalized the Church will give a firm statement.
That’s okay, I understand that perspective, and you have the right to follow whatever your conscience dictates of course. For me, what the Bishops have given as a guidelines is a very moral choice. But you have to live with you, and I have to live with me. But I do understand what you’re saying.
I don’t have a problem with it when the testing is done. However , my experience is that in the field it is not being done. I hope that Catholics will be knowledgeable and request it. Although, under the effects of stress and trauma of rape one could hardly be expected to think of everything. I also hope that Catholic hospitals will use the appropriate protocols and explain why they are doing them.
In what field are the guidelines not followed? By ‘in the field’, you mean in Catholic institutions or secular? Because in secular institutions, no, the guidelines are not followed. They wouldn’t be followed because they are only Catholic guidelines. The patient would have to request the additional tests. Maybe if the nurse called on specifically for sexual assault is knowledgeable about Catholic guidelines, they would explain them to the patient. But that’s not likely to happen in a secular hospital. In Catholic institutions, I don’t know. Some wouldn’t give the plan B at all and therefore wouldn’t have the ovulation test. Some would follow the guidlines. Others would have staff that would do whatever the patient directed and requiested. I personally wouldn’t go to a Catholic institution if I were raped anyway. Then again, I don’t have to because all of the hospitals surrounding me are secular. All of them have plan B for rape victims upon request.
 
She shouldn’t kill the baby.This life is a creation of God.Even though the woman has been violated God allowed this to happen and killing a life is not proportional to the pain or discomfort the woman has to bear in carrying this child to term.After she has delivered it she be her choice as to what should happen to the infant.Either she keeps it or its put up for adoption.
:eek::eek::bigyikes::bigyikes:
 
:eek::eek::bigyikes::bigyikes:
While what you quoted dosnt really show mercy it dosnt make it any less true.

A woman has suffered. Abortion is another suffering. People act as if its like getting a tooth pulled…its not. The body still “thinks” its pregnant so the woman may suffer for the full 9 months or more. PHYSICALLY. That dosnt even cover the mental impact.

A child. No matter how they were concieved. No matter if its rape…or even the most repulsive form of incest…deserves life. Their life…cut short…will have only a negative impact on their mother. Born they will have a chance to love and be loved. The world mourns its unborn…in every parent who longs to adopt. In every child who longs for a sibiling. In every man who longs for a spouse in every mother who longs for a friend. A person…and now millions…are missing.

It is hard to tell that to a woman. Or even worse a teen girl who faces such a nightmare. It IS a sticky horrible situation. But by offering the utmost mercy…offering love and protection we can ease a horrible situation. Not make it better but keep it from getting worse. We as mercy givers must remember that.

I must admit this subject boils me on so many levels. Those who are pro life must not waver. Those women who are facing the situations must be helped. Those men who commited violence should be hung from the offending part till death. Those women who must deal with the aftermat of whatever choice must be helped for as long as they need. In whatever grief they face. And those children should not be shamed and labeled and made feel like they should of been aborted. Its a giant cycle that wont stop until all christians realize what being prolife means. It means protecting the baby and proventing the further victimization of others by taking out the perps. NOT killing the baby and putting the rapist in a cush jail with a 3 year sentense.
 
Anyone who’se been raped, male or female, “true” Catholic or not, should:
  1. Get themselves to a safe place.
  2. Notify the police immediately, even if it means reporting a family member or a friend. Reporting the crime can help regain a sense of personal power and control.
  3. Call someone they trust who can give them support.
  4. Preserve all physical evidence of the assault. They shouldn’t shower, bathe, douche, eat, drink, wash their hands, or brush their teeth until after they have had a medical exam.
  5. Go to the emergency room, even if they think they are uninjured, they should still have a medical examination and discuss with a health care provider the risk of exposure to sexually transmitted infections and the possibility of pregnancy resulting from the attack. A Catholic victim of rape has the right to prevent conception by any procedure that is not an abortifacient.
Having a medical exam is also preserves physical evidence of a sexual assault.

The hospital should also take a urine sample to test for drugs like Rohypnol and GHB (i.e., “date rape drugs”).
  1. Write down as much as they can remember about the circumstances of the attack. Be as detailed as possible.
  2. Contact a rape crises or victim assistance center in they community. After a rape, victims have a lot of choices and decisions to make - e.g., about getting medical care, making a police report, and telling other people. They may have concerns about the impact of the assault and the reactions of friends and family.
  3. Talk with a counselor who is trained to assist rape victims. Counseling can help people learn how to cope with the emotional and physical impacts of a rape.
Victims living in the US can find a counselor by calling 1-800-656-HOPE.
Worth repeating.

Excellent, karow, thank you.
 
If pro-lifers are going to be honest, we should admit that the rape “exception” to abortion is probably among the hardest to defend. Hear me well-I am pro-life, even in the case of rape. However, it’s still uncomofortable to defend.

I would listen to the victim, make sure the offender gets the gas chamber, and then try to convince her that the baby of the rapist is an innocent person, and does not deserve to die for the sins of the father.

Again, I am 100 percent pro-life, but the rape exception is a thorny issue.
I know you are very pro-life, and thanks for saying this. You have no idea how much of a comfort it is to see posts like this from devout Catholics. More pro-choicers should see this so they dont think pro-lifers are all misogynists.
 
It’s very easy for someone who’s never been raped nor pregnant with a child resulting from rape to say, “carry the baby”. When it’s YOU who have to explain how you got pregnant, and you have been raped - well, it’s different. Among my family and friends, only one close friend knows I was violently raped in 1986. It is extremely difficult to talk about. I cannot support an attitude that it’s an “easy” call. Nothing easy about it.
Further, it’s disingenuous to claim pro-life views while advocating for the death penalty. I would sooner take a morning-after pill after rape when ovulating to prevent the potential for pregnancy, than to take the life of rapist. In the first case, I am stopping the potential for a life to form and in the second, I am taking an existing life. He who is without sin, cast the first stone.
Nor do I believe in torture even of heinous criminals. Separate them from society and make it permanent, but the infliction of deliberate pain on such people serves no purpose.
The Death Penalty and being Pro-life are apples and oranges.

With the Death Penalty the criminal has been given a fair trial of his peers and deemed guilty of his heinous crime, they used their free will and abused it; now society uses its own free will to make sure such people never harm anyone ever again. Don’t try and compare a innocent human in the womb as deserving of death equal to a rapist!​

Still, just what the hell are you suppose to say when pregnancy could kill the mother? I used to actively pro-life, especially toward my pro-choice family, but they didn’t hold anything back when using situations to make my stance seem abominable. I was ****ing 15 or younger and I was told by step-family in a hostile voice if I was willing to be pro-life in a case of a mother’s life at risk.

So you know what, I’ll ask all of you pro-life people. What are you suppose to say when it is a ten year old child who is pregnant by rape and only has a small percent chance of suriviving giving birth?! Because that is the kind of questions I was asked at 15, pro-choice #$@^s pull out all their teeth when they question you, so what do you do in THAT situation!?

What do you tell someone if the child rape victim dies giving birth? It’s less difficult to show love toward the Seed of rapists when they kill the mothers…
 
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