Women and the soul?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholicwoman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
So you think women are inferior in ALL respects, not merely some? LOL
 
Last edited:
What could he mean other than man is dominated by reason whereas woman is dominated by emotion? For all Aquinas’ brilliance as a philosopher and theologian, he was a man of his time and culture, and in that culture, man was seen as logical and woman as irrational and emotional. It is even thought to be true according to our modern culture although somewhat less so.
 
Last edited:
Helps to put it in context.

During the time of Aristotle it was widely believed that it was men who had the seed of humanity, that is the sperm by itself contained all of the material needed to make a human. Women were like flower pots, they contained the materials, in the form of wombs, needed to nurture the human but did not contribute any material of their own.

Of course, we now know this isn’t true, since humans are formed from the union of egg and sperm.
 
I believe so, and he was also influenced by Maimonides. But I’m sure you’re aware that women have been subjugated, if not always physically, then economically and socially, for millennia by men, including educated men, who fabricated any kind of pseudo-scientific theory to prove that men are superior to women.
 
Last edited:
Yes I’m fully aware of women being subjugated.

I have been to Asia where it’s still being done. Women and girls being sold and trafficked and generally being treated as inferior to men.
 
Lea101 said:
What does he mean by
40.png
Vico:
because in man the discretion of reason predominates
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
He makes a general and relative statement that discretion predominates in man vs woman. I believe that his opinion is influenced by a leading authority of his time, Aristotle.

S.T. I Q92 A1 R.Ob. 2 (excerpt) in Latin:
  • Et sic ex tali subiectione naturaliter femina subiecta est viro, quia naturaliter in homine magis abundat discretio rationis.
English discretion originates from Middle English (in the sense‘ to show good judgement’): via Old French from Latin discretio(n-) ‘separation’ (in late Latin ‘discernment’), from discernere, from dis- ‘apart’ + cernere ‘to separate’.

In the use of discretion, what is not desirable is sifted away, keeping only the good.

Re: Summa Theologiae, Ia, Q. 92, A. 1, Obj. 1
In another place St. Thomas Aquinas states: “On the other hand, as regards human nature in general, woman is not misbegotten, but is included in nature’s intention as directed to the work of generation. Now the general intention of nature depends on God, Who is the universal Author of nature. Therefore, in producing nature, God formed not only the male but also the female.”
Click to expand...
 
Syttu said:
It would make sense if we talk about the “body” (Women and men are different in phsyical structure and emotional support) but i am very skeptic about the part of the soul, since i have no reason to believe why the soul of a woman would present defects compared to that of a man.
Click to expand...
Not defects, but abilities. Just like in the body. Is it a ‘defect’ that men are commonly stronger than women? No, it is simply the absence of an ability.

A woman’s soul, for example, cannot be configured to Holy Orders. Is that a ‘defect’ ? Nope, that too is just the absence of an ability.
 
Brendan, if I could like your post to infinity, I would. That is exactly what I believe that passage intended to convey.
Furthermore, when the passage went on to talk of abilities which women possessed that men do not, the fact that a woman can conceive and bear a child would be to me the ultimate example. Are men ‘inferior’ to women because they cannot do so? No.

And of course, words have specific meanings in specific situations. Words in legal terminology, for example, can be extremely specific and hold to an often archaic meaning.
In the marriage service, the phrase, ‘with my body I thee worship’ has worship in its broadest and in fact earliest meaning of ‘worth-ship’, or the capacity to be admired, venerated, held ‘worthy’, but for a great many people today it means, "the honor given God alone’.

The word ‘defect’ as used in the Encyclopedia could refer to a specific theological meaning, not the common 21st century meaning of something which lessens the value of an entity.
 
I have not used the term “ability” nor “defect”, but i think your point remains.
 
Eh, the article is just acknowledging differences in the general order of creation between men and women. It could probably be worded better, but reading it in context with the prior paragraph and the rest of the one where that sentence is found, it is showing how both have their own strengths and “inferiorities,” yet ultimately have moral equality. The article had just gotten done refuting the Aristotelian idea that women were essentially defective men. It was acknowledging the differences that brought that idea about, before showing that to not be the complete picture–that such a conception can go both ways depending on which “respects” you’re looking at, and to ultimately not matter when it comes to moral equality.
 
Last edited:
Catholicwoman said:
If found this quote on the Catholic Encyclopedia (this site )page on women, “The female sex is in some respects inferior to the male sex, both as regards body and soul.”

I’m kind of baffled? Catholic teaching is that while different, Man and Woman are equal in God’s eyes. And that the soul come from God.

A direct quote from the CC says that "In creating men ‘male and female,’ God gives man and woman an equal personal dignity."119 "Man is a person, man and woman equally so, since both were created in the image and likeness of the personal God.“120”
Click to expand...
While I wouldn’t put it quite so bluntly, it’s both true and inoffensive.

First off. The Church teaches that men and women are equal in dignity. That is non-negotiable.

Second, the Encyclopedia says, “in some respects”.
  1. The female body, generally speaking, is physically smaller and weaker and more frail than the male body, which evolved for strenuous activity such as hunting and defense. In this respect, it is “inferior.”
  2. The woman’s soul cannot receive the mark of Holy Orders. So in a way, it is not “valid matter” for the Sacrament and is in a manner of speaking, “inferior” in this respect.
However, a woman’s body is also superior in other respects. It has the ability to bring another human being to term, and then bring it forth through a relatively narrow passage. That takes a lot of strength and tolerance to pain (the “milkman dead on the doorstep” joke comes to mind). And the soul itself is thought of as a feminine spirit; older writings used to refer to the soul with the pronoun “she” rather than it, and regardless of whether the soul was that of a man or a woman.
 
Funny, funny, funny and got me! (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Catholicwoman said:
Yeah, I think my confusion is basically why is it there? It’s not a official teaching …
Click to expand...
The Catholic Encyclopedia isn’t official teaching. It’s a very old encyclopedia that sometimes has useful material in it. It’s also on the New Advent website. It’s there because it’s out of copyright and quite interesting to have freely available online. The particular article you mention was published in 1912 and is largely based on 19th- and very early 20th-century German scholarship. It’s probably interesting from a historical point of view and may provide a starting point for some further reading. I wouldn’t get too worried about the fact that a couple of scholars writing over one hundred years ago said some things that sound odd to us today.
 
Maybe I’m the odd (wo)man out, but that quote doesn’t particularly upset me.

St Edith Stein, in her essays on women, believed that one should follow the career path that suits their talents, even if it crossed gender lines.
But she also felt because of the Fall, that men and women were more likely to fall into certain sins and vices.
 
If this matter concerns you, you should read what St. Pope John Paul II said about this matter. He said that man and women are created in the image of God and they have complimentary roles.
Complimentary, not inferior.

Women and men have their respective roles in the Church, and none of them are less than each other.
 
Catholicwoman said:
The female sex is in some respects inferior to the male sex, both as regards body and soul.
Click to expand...
The only respect that I can think of in which the soul of the female sex can be considered inferior to the soul of the male sex is its inability to receive the indelible spiritual mark of Holy Orders.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top