That, however, is not something new, as in, arising from Vatican 2. Prior to Vatican 2, when I was an altar boy, we were interchangably called acolytes and altar boys. No one got their knickers in a twist, no one assumed that grade school altar boys had been instituted to the office of accolyte; but we were referred to by that term.That is the terminology defined by Rome. Locals have misused the terms Lector and Acolyte often.
I saw it this last week; it was either in Our Sunday Visitor or the Catholic Sentinel (of the Archdiocese of Portland).I have searched in vain for this. Where is being reported? Not even the ultra-left National Catholic Reporter has reported this. And they would be overjoyed about this.
Please provide a link to a REPUTABLE news agency that is reporting this. Gossip mongering blogs do not count as reputable news agencies. I have yet to hear any blog that accurately reports the news.
Yes joann the practical vastly outweighs the academic in my case.How can you determine that not knowing what the courses are that must be taken? Courses in accredited programs must live up to a certain standard. It sound like the degree is more of a professional Masters rather than academic, but that still does not discount it as Master’s level coursework. When I stated that in our seminary the Pastoral Ministry program is a bit easier than the Theology program I said it because even though some of the required courses are the same the focus is more on practical ministry than on academic theology. The Pastoral Ministry degree focusus on things that the deacons will be doing in the parish rather than on academic work, teachining on a high school or undergraduate level, or on research,which is the focus of hte Theology Masters.
That seems a bit over the top. Minor orders are a tradition in the Church but they are not part of Tradition; it is clearly understood that minor orders are not Apostolic in origin, but arose later. It is not a matter of faith,My wife reads at Mass yet she sees the break with the faith this incurs and how this is a betrayal of the truth of our faith.
Not sure where you were going here.Why not formalize the p
See above; it is not apostolic in origin. It has been around in part since the third century, whioch certainly gives it venerability. But a matter of faith? Not quite.This would be a terrible, terrible thing for the Pope to allow as it would be yet another break with the faith of our Fathers and yet another part of the destruction of the Catholic faith.
Given the expressed attitudes of the Russian Orthodox in general (which obviously disagree with the attitudes of the Greek Orthodox), that is highly debatable. We have survived (at times not so well) with Eastern rites that are different from the Latin rite in both praxis and in theological formulations of commonly held doctrine. An issue as minor as this and pertaining only to the Latin rite is hardly going to upset anyone else’s boat, given they ahve their own Canon law.It would push the Orthodox further away, the other groups such as SSPX away and affect the Latin Church’s relation with the rest of the Catholic Church all in the name of innovation and appeasing the culture of today.
Calling it rebellion is a somewhat inflamitory way of saying that most dioceses don’t do something that they are not required to do.I called my diocese to see why they do not institute Acolytes\Lectors and they said it is because it is exclusive. There is an agenda of rebellion to the faith not to preserving it’s truth. There is an agenda of destroying the Male Ordained Priesthood and not fostering vocations.
You may see it as an attack. It is hardly that, given that the issue is not apostolic, is not a matter of faith but rather praxis, and is not intrinsic to the priesthhood. whether or not it is necessary will be decided way far above either your or my pay grade. If the Church says it, then so be it. If the Church decideds to not do it, so be it also. And the determination to not do it more likely than not will not be a “final answer” given that the issue iis not a matter of faith.Yet those who hate the Male Priesthood do not say this, they just want to “help oppressed women”, and call those who oppose innovation names, such as misogynists, old fashioned or pharasaic.
It is truly a shame that our faith continues to be attacked from inside and outside the Church. But of course it always will be that way.
In Christ
Scylla
I would suspect that this pope supports Paul 6th’s decision.I can’t believe Pope Benedict XVI would even entertain this innovation. Instead of this, the Pope should think long and hard about revoking Pope Paul VI’s decision to rid of the Traditional minor orders. Whats next? Female priests and Bishops?
I think I can offer another situation that is similar. I have a Doctor of Ministry degree. Within some circles the D.Min. is looked down on as not being a “real” doctorate. I worked very hard and spent a year working on a dissertation. My course work, while completely focusing on ministry, did involve a lot of work, study and research. There are many other professional doctorates that are not “academic” degrees but require just the same amount of work. I could have gone for the Ph.D. but I didn’t want to have to learn 4 languages (which is required in the area I would have wanted to study) as I have great difficulty with languages, I have enough trouble with English. But I am a good pastoral minister and my degree has been a boon to me in my work. The same can be said of the MA in Pastoral Ministry or Pastoral Theology. The focus of those degrees is ministry and those who graduate with those degrees are very qualified for the ministry they do in the parish.Yes joann the practical vastly outweighs the academic in my case.
None of the apostles had even an associates degree…I am sure they could do well even in Todays world to connect with people…
Elitism abounds in todays world.\
It seems like there is some animosity involved here on the fourms regarding “things”.
I
It doesn’t matter to me…I am not in it for the academic recognition…I am very very good with people and I am answering the call to Christ. I already have a masters in administration. I find it interesting that there remains a significant amount of pride in this world that people feel compelled to belittle others only to make themselves feel better. …in this case I call it academic elitism.
Blessings to all.
Well put…My masters in Hosptial Administration was not very challenging at all…in fact…I am running into more difficulty with theology…by FAR…I think I can offer another situation that is similar. I have a Doctor of Ministry degree. Within some circles the D.Min. is looked down on as not being a “real” doctorate. I worked very hard and spent a year working on a dissertation. My course work, while completely focusing on ministry, did involve a lot of work, study and research. There are many other professional doctorates that are not “academic” degrees but require just the same amount of work. I could have gone for the Ph.D. but I didn’t want to have to learn 4 languages (which is required in the area I would have wanted to study) as I have great difficulty with languages, I have enough trouble with English. But I am a good pastoral minister and my degree has been a boon to me in my work. The same can be said of the MA in Pastoral Ministry or Pastoral Theology. The focus of those degrees is ministry and those who graduate with those degrees are very qualified for the ministry they do in the parish.
And none of us here are one of the Apostles.None of the apostles had even an associates degree…I am sure they could do well even in Todays world to connect with people…
This sounds like a great program! What diocese are you in? Also, God bless you for answering the call to be a deacon!Interesting. I know for fact that we will be given a Masters Degree in Pastoral theology provided we successfully defend a thesis.
Our formation program is 5 years and we will be taking our academic work at the diocesan university. We do however only meet for 18 hours per month for 5 years.)Ordination is not dependent upon “completion” of the degree but Candidates MUST complete All of the work minus the Thesis for oridiantion. However since the academic portion of degree is Completely and totally free (minus the books of course which are required for training anyways) one would be a fool not to complete the THesis I believe my entire class will be recieving their masters degree since we are all college grads…
Soo at least around here for now 18 hours a month for 5 years seems a little steep for lector training. Especially if they are required to defend a thesis too
Theology is different because it deals mostly with concepts, theories, nothing practical for the most part. It also deals, in a sense, with a differnt way of thinking. That is why it is important to have some philosophy, even if it is only a basic introduction, to understand theological thought. Even though I went on for my D.Min. I felt my MA in Theology was more challenging, but it prepared me for doctoral work. Now my doctoral dissertation project was very challenging, but it was also practical.Well put…My masters in Hosptial Administration was not very challenging at all…in fact…I am running into more difficulty with theology…by FAR…
Perhaps Moyle will find some satifaction in that.
BTW my ability to relate to people is exceptional…somthing I recogize as a gift…
Just more double speak from Rome. I dont get it they release the Latin Mass talk about the “hermeneutic of continuity” until their red in the face then turn around and do this. Strange. As a side note my Parish has had women lectors since the early 1990’sLooks like the world synod of bishops has asked the vatican to open up the former minor priestly order of Lector to Women.
If hope this does not happen.
This would be followed by hordes of women attending fast track seminars and little mini ordinations of lectors everywhere.
- I hope that the ministries are Lector and Acolyte are done away with altogether except for those who are on their way to Holy Orders.
- My diocese would have a field day with it if the pope approves women into this ministry.
Right now around here The title Lector and Acolyte are not even mentioned and the VAST majority of Catholics in my diocese haven’t a clue that such ministries exist. If the request is granted I guarantee you that the flood gates of propeganda on the issue would be opened and the diocesan newspaper would be having an expose’ on the job of a lector.
Its a bad idea in my liberal diocsese…it would get way out of hand and people would be severely misled.
Ok I gave my opinion any comments.
Well I guessed right…it has already made the front page of my diocesan newspaper.Its a bad idea in my liberal diocsese…it would get way out of hand and people would be severely misled.
- My diocese would have a field day with it if the pope approves women into this ministry.
Right now around here The title Lector and Acolyte are not even mentioned and the VAST majority of Catholics in my diocese haven’t a clue that such ministries exist. If the request is granted I guarantee you that the flood gates of propeganda on the issue would be opened and the diocesan newspaper would be having an expose’ on the job of a lector.
This would be followed by hordes of women attending fast track seminars and little mini ordinations of lectors everywhere.
Ok I gave my opinion any comments.
The minor orders in the Roman Church were suppressed by pope Paul VI, there are two ministries in the Church today that have a resemblance to the minor orders of old (still retained in the Eastern Churches) installed lectors and acolytes, these ministries are reseved for men as were the minor orders. Women have served as temporary lectors for 3 decades in the Latin Church. I frequently assit at masses where women are temporary lectors, in the ordinary form of the Latin rite.Looks like the world synod of bishops has asked the vatican to open up the former minor priestly order of Lector to Women.
If hope this does not happen.
This would be followed by hordes of women attending fast track seminars and little mini ordinations of lectors everywhere.
- I hope that the ministries are Lector and Acolyte are done away with altogether except for those who are on their way to Holy Orders.
- My diocese would have a field day with it if the pope approves women into this ministry.
Right now around here The title Lector and Acolyte are not even mentioned and the VAST majority of Catholics in my diocese haven’t a clue that such ministries exist. If the request is granted I guarantee you that the flood gates of propeganda on the issue would be opened and the diocesan newspaper would be having an expose’ on the job of a lector.
Its a bad idea in my liberal diocsese…it would get way out of hand and people would be severely misled.
Ok I gave my opinion any comments.