Women at the washing of the feet?

[AngelRose81]

Last night at out Holy Thursday service I was watching as Father was washing the feet of the chosen people and I was disturbed to find that there were I know at least 5, maybe 6, women that participated and had their feet washed. I was under the impression that it was only supposed to be men…is there something that says that women can participate?

 

[Phemie]

Last night at out Holy Thursday service I was watching as Father was washing the feet of the chosen people and I was disturbed to find that there were I know at least 5, maybe 6, women that participated and had their feet washed. I was under the impression that it was only supposed to be men…is there something that says that women can participate?

The Roman Missal says ‘men’ but many parishes/dioceses include women and children. The Canadian ORDO even says “Include a cross-section of the population”.

FWIW, in our parish only 4 men volunteered so that’s who had their feet washed (this was the first time it was men only since we brought the practice of foot washing back about 8 years ago)

Father, who was celebrating the Mass of the Lord’s Supper with us for the first time, commented afterward “I noted that there were only men for the foot-washing. Jesus was a Jew and would have been with family for the Passover. There would have been women and children there and he would have washed their feet too, so please keep that in mind next year and let’s have women and children volunteer.” If he only knew what an uphill battle it’s been to get men to volunteer for this and then to undermine it with that comment.

 

[fnz2thrght]

Our parish did children. Lots of them. Any child that wanted to come forward got their feet washed. Technically maybe it was incorrect. Spiritually it was moving to see the priests and deacons serving the littlest members of our parish. I think even if ‘rules’ were broken, that everyone understood the meaning.

 

[Linnyo]

Last night at out Holy Thursday service I was watching as Father was washing the feet of the chosen people and I was disturbed to find that there were I know at least 5, maybe 6, women that participated and had their feet washed. I was under the impression that it was only supposed to be men…is there something that says that women can participate?

Absolutely dreadful!! Imagine such a thing happening. It’s only one step away from women priests! Shocking! :doh2:

I’'m more shocked that you are shocked tbh!

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Our parish did children. Lots of them. Any child that wanted to come forward got their feet washed. Technically maybe it was incorrect. Spiritually it was moving to see the priests and deacons serving the littlest members of our parish. I think even if ‘rules’ were broken, that everyone understood the meaning.

So… breaking rules for something cute and moving is more important that following the guidelines that have been set forth for hundreds of years?

 

[TheDoctor]

What you have is another one of those situations that I think God lets happen just so he can see the discussions on these forums!

As I understand it, the GIRM does say “men” and that is the way it has traditionally been done. It is a stark and beautiful reminder of how much God loves us (our King washes our feet) and the call to service of his often unappreciated priests.

Some places in recent years have started including women, especially up in the Boston Archdiocese. When Cardinal O’Malley took over, he went back to all men and was lambasted for it. The Cardinal did what I think is the right thing: He asked the Vatician, specifically the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments (CDW) if women could be admitted to the ceremony and was told that as the archbishop he could make a pastoral decision to admit women to the footwashing ritual on Holy Thursday. See here: rcab.org/Pilot/2005/ps050401/holythursday.html

At that point you are dead in the water, since the CDW reply did not limit this to just Boston, so it applies to every archbishop everywhere.

Personally, while I dearly love my sisters in Christ, this is one area where we have to say a repsectful “no”. Scripture does not say Jesus washed the feet of all present, it says “his disciples” and more importantly, it tells us what Jesus told them (the disciples, not everyone) the meaning of what this ritual was. Sorry for the mini-rant there, this just seems to be sooooo clear, I can’t believe we are discussing it, much less doing it.

Have a Blessed Easter.

 

[Richie_Nelson]

What you have is another one of those situations that I think God lets happen just so he can see the discussions on these forums!

As I understand it, the GIRM does say “men” and that is the way it has traditionally been done. It is a stark and beautiful reminder of how much God loves us (our King washes our feet) and the call to service of his often unappreciated priests.

Some places in recent years have started including women, especially up in the Boston Archdiocese. When Cardinal O’Malley took over, he went back to all men and was lambasted for it. The Cardinal did what I think is the right thing: He asked the Vatician, specifically the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments (CDW) if women could be admitted to the ceremony and was told that as the archbishop he could make a pastoral decision to admit women to the footwashing ritual on Holy Thursday. See here: rcab.org/Pilot/2005/ps050401/holythursday.html

At that point you are dead in the water, since the CDW reply did not limit this to just Boston, so it applies to every archbishop everywhere.

Personally, while I dearly love my sisters in Christ, this is one area where we have to say a repsectful “no”. Scripture does not say Jesus washed the feet of all present, it says “his disciples” and more importantly, it tells us what Jesus told them (the disciples, not everyone) the meaning of what this ritual was. Sorry for the mini-rant there, this just seems to be sooooo clear, I can’t believe we are discussing it, much less doing it.

Have a Blessed Easter.

Did Jesus wash the feet of ONLY the “men” disciples because that’s all who was there? Or were others present that he excluded? Might shed some light on things?

thanks, Richie

 

[patg]

Last night at out Holy Thursday service I was watching as Father was washing the feet of the chosen people and I was disturbed to find that there were I know at least 5, maybe 6, women that participated and had their feet washed. I was under the impression that it was only supposed to be men…is there something that says that women can participate?

It is really funny how often some here insist that “for us men and our salvation…” *clearly *means mankind, including both men and women. But then the same word here clearly means “men only”, even when there is no reason not to include all people in this symbolic gesture. Thank God for a parish that includes everyone.

 

[ac23]

I found this helpful: wdtprs.com/blog/2008/03/holy-thursday-mass-optional-washing-of-feet-only-males/

 

[bpbasilphx]

Jesus was a Jew and would have been with family for the Passover. There would have been women and children there,

A casual reading of the accounts of the Mystical Supper will make it plain that there were only the 12 MALE disciples present.

 

[David_Poem]

Some times i think we forget the point Jesus was making when he did this.Let us stop sweating the small stuff.He says to love one another and to help each other.In our church we are trying very hard to get everyone a lease be friends with one another
and not be so stuffy

 

[AngelRose81]

I do see what some of you are saying about including EVERYONE (women and children) but I thought it was supposed to be men since it is supposed to be representative of Jesus washing the apostles’ feet and they were all men… Thanks for your replies. Apparantley our parish has been using men and women for a while. They even asked one of the candidates of the RCIA to participate, which is fine I think, but even that volunteer was a woman.

I’m reminded of what Fr. Corapi said either in the Lenten talk on EWTN yesterday or today about women in the priesthood, etc. Its not that women aren’t as holy or even more holy than men, but some things Christ reserved for ONLY men. He set the precedent, who are we to change that?

Oh well, I don’t know if I should say anything or not to our priest. I don’t know if it would do any good to be honest. I guess I need to be thankful that there aren’t THAT many abuses that go on in my parish…

 

[Richie_Nelson]

Oh well, I don’t know if I should say anything or not to our priest. I don’t know if it would do any good to be honest. I guess I need to be thankful that there aren’t THAT many abuses that go on in my parish…

Sometimes I am grateful that I DON’T “know everything” about the catholic church. It seems like at least on this forum that the more a person knows, the more they spend time looking for things to complain about.

Jesus washed the feet of his followers as a symbolic gesture. Does it really matter if it was men, women, children, 12 only, or 112?

thanks, Richie

 

[Melissa]

It is really funny how often some here insist that “for us men and our salvation…” *clearly *means mankind, including both men and women. But then the same word here clearly means “men only”, even when there is no reason not to include all people in this symbolic gesture. Thank God for a parish that includes everyone.

It’s not funny at all. Look to the Latin, and you will see the difference:

In the Creed: “Qui propter nos homines et propter nostram salutem descendit de caelis. Et incarnatus est de Spiritu Sancto ex Maria Virgine, et homo factus est.”

In the instructions regarding footwashing, the word is “viri”.

Two different words, same translation in English, but two different meanings:

homo/homines = man as in mankind (all of humanity–men, women, children)

vir/viri = man as in adult male human

 

[MrS]

Sometimes I am grateful that I DON’T “know everything” about the catholic church. It seems like at least on this forum that the more a person knows, the more they spend time looking for things to complain about.

Jesus washed the feet of his followers as a symbolic gesture. Does it really matter if it was men, women, children, 12 only, or 112?

thanks, Richie

Yes it does.

The instruction, given through the washing of the feet, was given only to the 12 who were ordained that night, and who participated in the very first liturgy of the Eucharist.

Yes it does matter.

.

 

[James0235]

Sometimes I am grateful that I DON’T “know everything” about the catholic church. It seems like at least on this forum that the more a person knows, the more they spend time looking for things to complain about.

It is important for people to be familiar with Catholic Liturgy so that when it is abused they can take the proper steps to see that the abuse is stopped. Liturgical abuses can damage your faith.

Whenever an abuse is committed in the celebration of the sacred Liturgy, it is to be seen as a real falsification of Catholic Liturgy. St Thomas wrote, “the vice of falsehood is perpetrated by anyone who offers worship to God on behalf of the Church in a manner contrary to that which is established by the Church with divine authority, and to which the Church is accustomed”
(Redemptionis Sacramentum 169)

**For abuses “contribute to the obscuring of the Catholic faith and doctrine concerning this wonderful sacrament” (Redemptionis Sacramentum 6)

For the Sacred Liturgy is quite intimately connected with principles of doctrine, so that the use of unapproved texts and rites necessarily leads either to the attenuation or to the disappearance of that necessary link between the * lex orandi* and the* lex credendi. *(Redemptionis Sacramentum 10)

**

Jesus washed the feet of his followers as a symbolic gesture. Does it really matter if it was men, women, children, 12 only, or 112?

thanks, Richie

Jesus washed the feet of the 12 men whom he ordained priests. The church says that the feet of men should be washed - but it does not say that the number must be 12.

Since the Church has established that only the feet of men may be washed, when a priest takes it upon himself to wash the feet of women as well, the Mass then becomes a “falsification of Catholic Liturgy” and contributes “to the obscuring of the Catholic faith”. It leads to the disappearance of the link “between the * lex orandi* and the* lex credendi.” *

We believe as we pray. If we are commemorating Jesus washing the feet of the men he ordains to the priesthood by washing the feet of women then it is easy to see how the faith is being obscured. It can very easily lead one to the belief than women priests are a possibility. I have had people argue with me that the Church will ordain women some day because some priests now wash the feet on women on Holy Thursday.

James

 

[Linnyo]

Sometimes I am grateful that I DON’T “know everything” about the catholic church. It seems like at least on this forum that the more a person knows, the more they spend time looking for things to complain about.

Jesus washed the feet of his followers as a symbolic gesture. Does it really matter if it was men, women, children, 12 only, or 112?

thanks, Richie

Well said. There are so manyb people picking out specks in the churches eyes without attending to their own planks. It must be nice toi have soi little to concern themselves with.

 

[Linnyo]

We believe as we pray. If we are commemorating Jesus washing the feet of the men he ordains to the priesthood by washing the feet of women then it is easy to see how the faith is being obscured. It can very easily lead one to the belief than women priests are a possibility. I have had people argue with me that the Church will ordain women some day because some priests now wash the feet on women on Holy Thursday.

James

I was being sarcastic when I said about it only being a step away from women priests. Washing feet and being a preistess are miles apart. You are getting worried about nothing. I suspect the people who have argued with you have also seen that you are very easily wound up.

 

[aurora77]

Our parish tried to have Communion line stations for feet washing. Our priest even said that everyone should participate, but if they really felt like they didn’t want to, that’s OK. Real guilt thing. I really didn’t want to go up and participate, but I also wasn’t feeling all that well, so I didn’t want to have to get into a big “why weren’t you part of the community” thing later. Fortunately, the vast majority of parishoners stayed seated, myself included.

I just wish things could be done properly, the way the Church intended.

 

[fnz2thrght]

Well while you all were nitpicking, I was enjoying and reflecting on the fact that Jesus washed his disciples feet as an act of service and love. His disciples. I am a disciple. My children are his disciples. We are included in this. I’m sorry, but the Catholic church isn’t just for men.