Women dispensing the eucharist

[itsjustdave1988]

Some people can tell us otherwise, but this is an unchangeable practice for us, and we will continue to be reverent.

Your practice is rooted in error. You can cling to personal opinion or submit to the governing authority of the Roman Pontiff.

Pope Pius IX:

And, we cannot pass over in silence the boldness of those who “not enduring sound doctrine” [II Tim 4:3], contend that “without sin and with no loss of Catholic profession, one can withhold assent and obedience to those judgments and decrees of the Apostolic See, whose object is declared to relate to the general good of the Church and its rights and discipline, provided it does not touch dogmas of faith or morals.” There is no one who does not see and understand clearly and openly how opposed this is to the Catholic dogma of the plenary power divinely bestowed on the Roman Pointiff by Christ the Lord Himself of feeding, ruling, and governing the universal Church. (Denzinger 1698)

 

[itsjustdave1988]

*Inaestimablie Donum, *Approved and Confirmed by His Holiness Pope John Paul II April 17, 1980:

The faithful, whether religious or lay, who are authorized as extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist can distribute Communion only when there is no priest, deacon or acolyte, when the priest is impeded by illness or advanced age, or when the number of the faithful going to Communion is so large as to make the celebration of Mass excessively long. Accordingly, a reprehensible attitude is shown by those priests who, though present at the celebration, refrain from distributing Communion and leave the task to the laity. (ID, 10).

It is certainly a reprehensible attitude when priests refrain from distributing the Body of Christ and leave the task to the laity. However, it is also a reprehensible attitude when laity refuse to receive the true Body of Christ from a lay person authorized by the Holy Catholic Church to act as an EMHC.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Br. Rich SFO,

Originally Posted by Br. Rich SFO
There was a list in some document I read but can’t find it now that went like this. Extraordinary ministers as follows: Instituted Acolytes, Seminarians, Men Religious, Women Religious, Lay men, Lay women.
**

I think I may have found it:

Holy See’s 1973 instruction Immensae Caritatis:

[Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion] will be designated according to the order of this listing (which may be changed at the prudent discretion of the local ordinary): reader, major seminarian, man religious, woman religious, catechist, one of the faithful–a man or a woman. (*Immensae Caritatis *I:IV, *Documents of the Liturgy, *Collegeville, Minnesota: Liturgical Press, 1985, 2078)

It doesn’t order “lay women” after “lay men,” but instead seems to purposefully make no differentiation between “one of the faithful–a man or a woman.”

 

[Catholic2003]

itsjustdave1988:

I think I may have found it:

Holy See’s 1973 instruction Immensae Caritatis:

Good find! I wasn’t aware of this.

I’m not sure if this is still in force given the canon law revision in 1983.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

ONE MORE TIME FOLKS

EUCHARIST MINISTER - Only the priest because only he can confect the eucharist

ORDINARY MINISTERS OF HOLY COMMUNION - Priest, Bishop and Deacon

EXTRAORDINARY MINISTERS OF HOLY COMMUNION - All other laypersons trained to assist with communion in extraordinary circumstances but not on a routine basis

:banghead:

 

[itsjustdave1988]

I don’t believe the 1983 Code of Canon Law abrogated the Immensae Caritatis instruction. However, note that the local Bishop may reorder as he sees fit. This essentially places the policy into the hands of the local ordinary.

In our parish, we have two priests, two deacons. They always act as the ordinary ministers of Holy Communion. But since we have close to 7000 members in our parish, we need others to volunteer. We have no installed acolytes in our parish. We do have two seminarians from our parish, and two in the diaconate program, although their formation involves participation in other parishes throughout the diocese, not just ours. So EMHCs are in demand. It is not “priest envy.” Most of the EMHCs would rather have ordinary ministers do it all. There are simply not enough, however. In fact, there are not enough EMHCs either. The parish is always begging for more volunteers. It seems women often volunteer more readily than men. Shame on the men for not being more responsible stewards of their Catholic faith.

 

[system]

misericordie:

The best thing to do where the priest sits and lets all the EXTRAORDINARY ministers of the Eucharist distribute Christ in the host, is: Don’t get on the Communion line of any LAY Eucharistic Minister. Or if on the line, move to the next line to the priest’s line.
I, my friends, and family have a policy, NO matter what the priests says, or to which Mass we attend: we do not take communion from any lay person … Some people can tell us otherwise, but this is an unchangeable practice for us, and we will continue to be reverent.

As Dave says, your “unchangeable practice” is founded on lack of understanding. Or unwillingness to follow church teaching, I’m not sure which. I’m sure you think you’re being extra-reverent, but I doubt God really sees it that way.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Deacon Ed:

Paragraph 14 of the current GIRM reminds us that the Eucharist is complete under either species, but that we have been given the option of more frequent reception under both species. We also read:

1. Holy Communion has a fuller form as a sign when it is distributed under both kinds. For in this form the sign of the eucharistic banquet is more clearly evident and clear expression is given to the divine will by which the new and eternal Covenant is ratified in the Blood of the Lord, as also the relationship between the Eucharistic banquet and the eschatological banquet in the Father’s Kingdom.

1. In addition to those cases given in the ritual books, Communion under both kinds is permitted for
   1. 
      *]Priests who are not able to celebrate or concelebrate Mass;
      *]The deacon and others who perform some duty at the Mass;
      *]Members of communities at the conventual Mass or “community” Mass, along with seminarians, and all who are engaged in a retreat or are taking part in a spiritual or pastoral gathering.

1. 
   The Diocesan Bishop may establish norms for Communion under both kinds for his own diocese, which are also to be observed in churches of religious and at celebrations with small groups. The Diocesan Bishop is also given the faculty to permit Communion under both kinds whenever it may seem appropriate to the priest to whom, as its own shepherd, a community has been entrusted, provided that the faithful have been well instructed and there is no danger of profanation of the Sacrament or of the rite’s becoming difficult because of the large number of participants or some other reason.

1. 
   

   Since my bishop has directed each parish to offer communion under both species at all Masses, it is not an “option” at all – it is a requirement!

   Deacon Ed

   The authority is given to the bishop “provided that…(the rite does not become difficult) because of the large number of participants…” seems to indicate that it’s an either/or thing.
   Either he can authorize communion under both kinds for smaller congregations, or not for larger ones if it is going to cause extraordinary circumstances.
   And we all know that Rome keeps reiterating that extraordinary circumstances are “unforeseen” and “not habitual.”
   
   I really do feel that if bishops want the obedience of the faithful, they should first exemplify obedience to the Holy See.
   [/quote]

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Holy See’s 1973 instruction Immensae Caritatis:

Thanks for finding this I just could not find where I had read that.

 

[Iohannes]

Ham1:

WARNING: Tangent

Not to nitpick…but aren’t vocations up a lot nationally???

I thought the big vocation crisis was in the 80’s and that it has been improving?

Or am I misinformed?

Thanks!

Vocations are up in orders that use Pre-vatican II discipline, infact right now the FSSP Seminary in Nebraska have to turn away people because they are overcrowded.

And yes I believe the overuse EMHC is one of many factors in the vocation crisis.

Why become a priest when you can play priest by becomming a EMHC.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

As I am married, becoming a priest is not an option. Yet, when my parish needs me to cook breakfast, stock the food pantry, or become an EMHC, I roll up my sleaves and give of my meager talents. I am thinking of the diaconate when I retire from the military, however.

Iohannes, are you a priest? I’m glad for the FSSP, however, in my diocese (Colorado Springs) we have more people wanting to enter the seminary than there are slots available as well. It seems orthodoxy attracts candidates for the priesthood, whether or not the Mass is celebrated in Latin. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

 

[Catholic_Eagle]

Tarcisius was a Roman. His name is Latin. SO I think he is Latin. Remember every bum spoke Latin in Rome. Also Tarcisius and his friends celebrated the Mass in catacombs and private homes. Do you celebrate Mass at home on the dinner table? Dave do you know why the TLM has so many rituals? To thank God that we don’t have to celebrate in catacombs that’s whyAnyways where did I say anything about the TLM or the modern Roman Missal. ITSJUSTDAVE1988 so giving out the Sacred Species is meagre task on the level of a cook.

 

[RichT]

Catholic Eagle:

I have seen a woman in a miniskirt being “Eucharistic ministers”[once this same women had her nails painted black.for you who don’t know this is a sign of being a satatnist]

Wow, that’s quite the judgement call. Is it entirely impossible that she just preferred the color black? Or are you automatically assuming she is a satanist because she painted her nails black?

 

[S_Corda]

Iohannes:

… Why become a priest when you can play priest by becomming a EMHC.

That’s uncalled for and amounts to slander in my opinion.

Anyone else?
This is addressed to lay people who distribute Holy Communion : are you playing priest? Do you think that assisting in this way is a substitute for being a priest?

I became an acolyte because the Pastor of our parish asked. I try to serve the parish any way I can, especially in ways that I am asked. To call your comment insulting is an understatement.

 

[Fortiterinre]

S_Corda:

That’s uncalled for and amounts to slander in my opinion.

Anyone else?
This is addressed to lay people who distribute Holy Communion : are you playing priest? Do you think that assisting in this way is a substitute for being a priest?

I became an acolyte because the Pastor of our parish asked. I try to serve the parish any way I can, especially in ways that I am asked. To call your comment insulting is an understatement.

Thank you, Sursum Corda! I attend daily Mass in a large round chapel (built in 1960 for the Tridentine Mass) with 4 main aisles and an overflow balcony which covers the complete perimeter of the building. Many of the communicants here are wheelchair bound and have no way to come up to the communion rail (yes, we still have the original communion rail). Our celebrant is 84 years old and has no way of covering 4 aisles of communicants PLUS an entire balcony the length of many indoor running tracks. Rather than rejoice that this chapel is filled to the brim with daily communicants every day, there will always be some who seethe because we use a few EMHC’s. Our EMHC’s are so reverent that it is usually the first thing visiting priests comment upon. Let the insults wash over you and be encouraged in your gifts! You sound like you are doing a great job!

 

[JNB]

A couple of things here. For one, S Corda, your diocese, Lincoln, is probably the most traditional diocese in the US, with instuted acolytes such as yourself, the only diocese in the US to have them, and if your diocese was the norm of the US, there would be far less complaints about EMHCs, since you fill an offical liturgical role, going a step beyond being a layman.

Two, Fortiterinre, it is one thing using the example of the parish you go to daily mass to has a real need for EMHCs, since there is only one elderly priest. What angers people about EMHCs is how so many priests find any excuse to use them, such as offering the chalice for communion, and option that is not even needed to even have both species for communion(Intinction is an excellent way to offer both species for communion), the fact many parishes have at least two priests and 2+ deacons on staff, yet all too often, only the priest is on the altar distrbuting communion, while the other ordained minsiters are in the rectory drinking coffee, eating donuts and reading the Sunday paper instead of being on the altar distrubiting communion as they should.

About offering two species for communion, this option is not needed, and probably 80-85% of the parishes in the world probably only distribute only the host for communin. But again as it is, too many Pastors find too many excuses to pack as many lay people on the altar as possible.

 

[maggiec]

Iohannes:

Why become a priest when you can play priest by becomming a EMHC.

I believe that was a very unkind and uncalled for statement I was involved with a large parish and took a 3 month course at Seton Medical Center on death and dying. Because of my training along with other considerations I was asked to visit people from our parish in hospital and take communion to them.
I wasn’t trying to become a priest, I was trying to be of assistance to the people confined in hospital. A little more kindness on the forms would be nice.
maggiec

 

[cmom]

I don’t know what diocese you are in JNB, but very few parishes [unless they are mega-churches] have 2 priests and 2 deacons.
Most of us are thrilled to have one priest, or one priest between two parishes…

 

[JNB]

Cmom, I am in Ohio, and most suburban parishes around here have a Pastor, an asst Pastor and usually 2 or more deacons assigned to them. Yes some are fairly large, but if the chalice is abolished, 4 ordained men could easily distribute communion to 1000 communicants in 15 or so minuites.

At my parish, two priests or on occasion one priest and a deacon can distribute communion to 500 parishoners using the communion rail in 10-15 minuites.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iohannes
… Why become a priest when you can play priest by becomming a EMHC.

S_Corda:

That’s uncalled for and amounts to slander in my opinion.

Anyone else?
This is addressed to lay people who distribute Holy Communion : are you playing priest? Do you think that assisting in this way is a substitute for being a priest?

I became an acolyte because the Pastor of our parish asked. I try to serve the parish any way I can, especially in ways that I am asked. To call your comment insulting is an understatement.

While in your case it may hit far wide of the mark, I think Iohannes’ comment is true of many laypeople who fulfill various liturgical functions. Far too many have interpreted Vatican II’s call for a greater role of the laity as meaning a more conspicuous role at the front of Church during Mass. So instead of the laity proclaiming the Gospel to the world everyone is jockeying for positions they see as their right, such as lector, EMHC, etc. Many people have priest envy - they see it as a position of power and authority (which in some ways it is), and humans have always lusted after power. Feminists especially crave the same access to this “power” that men enjoy.

I have a different kind of priest envy. I long to celebrate the sacraments and to serve in the same way a courageous priest serves. But since I also felt truly called to the married state, current (and rather ancient) discipline bars me from the fullness of the sacrament of Orders. I would love to eventually enter the Diaconate, but until then, I will take the opportunities given me to assist the priest and refuse any roles that are proper only to the priest.