Women dispensing the eucharist

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Michael:
I don’t have a problem with women serving as EMHC’s. For the people that jump line into the priest line-Would you refuse communion from Mary? :confused:
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Is there a record of the Blessed Mother distributing Holy Communion?! :bigyikes: :nope: 😉
 
I agree. I, too, live in Ohio in the diocese of Toledo, and it was announced we will closing 26 parishes in the next year. And the ones that are left will have fewer masses, which means that there will be more people per mass. The priest then will certainly need some help at communion time from the em’s. I am one, and I resent the remark that I’m just doing it because I want to play priest. . I believe I’m helping out in the best way I know how by distributing at Mass, and taking communion to the sick. And yes, my wife is an em also.
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OhioBob:
I too am in Ohio (big surprise, huh?), although not in suburbia. Out here in cow country we certainly don’t have that luxury. We have a Pastor. That’s it. No assistants, no deacons. And we are lucky to have a Pastor. About six area churches have closed in the last 20 years.

We have about 150 - 250 at a typical sunday Mass (the church holds about 325 if we all inhale, 4 Masses each weekend). Since we distribute communion in both forms, we use two EMHC to minister the cup. We usually have an additional EMHC who assists the priest in distributing the host. I wish they would do without that one, but the Pastor prefers to have the help (he is in his sixties).

There are some things about the way we use EMHCs that I don’t particularly care for, but I have no problem with the fact that we use them the way we do.

And in the vast majority of cases, they aren’t EMHCs because they want to pretend to be priests. I give most of them more credit than that.

Blessings.
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This is not out of the rule books, but:

The only nead for an “extraordinary minister of the Eucharist” is if the priest is in need of someone to help distribute communion to sick or elderly and ther is not enough time or resourses to accomplish this…and if possible, a deacon should be helping out.
There is absoulutly NO reason whatsoever to have anyone but the priest and perhaps a deacon distribute Holy Communion to the faithful. Who cares if you spend an extra 5-10 minutes in Mass to accomadate this. If you are worried about getting home fast to watch a football game or whatever, the football game is not important AT ALL…God is the only thing that matters.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
Iohannes,
Looks like a Christian about to receive the Sanctifying Grace of Christ’s Body and Blood. Looks great to me!
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I think it looks inappropriate that a female altar server is distributing Holy Communion, for a number of reasons.
Would it look great to you if you saw a uniformed military officer saluting a lower-ranking soldier in civilian attire, who was not saluting back?
I might say, that looks like that officer is showing high respect, even to a lower ranking soldier than himself, who is out of uniform!
But would it be appropriate?

Also, regarding the “legality” of altar girls ~ do you know how they came about here in the US?

Not because the Holy See decided to institute them, but rather because our disobedient nuance of using them with no permission was so epidemic it could hardly be stamped out, so it was “allowed,” but still, if you read the Vatican’s wording, male servers still seem to be preferred.

Have our disobedience and our innovations hurt vocations in the US? I would tend to say yes.

Just as a low ranking soldier should not try to re-invent the military, so too Catholics in the US should not try to reinvent the Mass.

Redemptionis Sacramentum clearly states:
[151.] Only out of true necessity is there to be recourse to the assistance of extraordinary ministers in the celebration of the Liturgy. Such recourse is not intended for the sake of a fuller participation of the laity but rather, by its very nature, is supplementary and provisional.[252] Furthermore, when recourse is had out of necessity to the functions of extraordinary ministers, special urgent prayers of intercession should be multiplied that the Lord may soon send a Priest for the service of the community and raise up an abundance of vocations to sacred Orders.[253]

[152.] These purely supplementary functions must not be an occasion for disfiguring the very ministry of Priests, in such a way that the latter neglect the celebration of Holy Mass for the people for whom they are responsible, or their personal care of the sick, or the baptism of children, or assistance at weddings or the celebration of Christian funerals, matters which pertain in the first place to Priests assisted by Deacons. It must therefore never be the case that in parishes Priests alternate indiscriminately in shifts of pastoral service with Deacons or laypersons, thus confusing what is specific to each.

Not only does the Church give permission for these functions, but it sets limits and gives guidelines, too. EMHCs themselves, if used according to the Church’s instructions, would not be harmful.
But the misuse and over use of them does harm the Church, undoubtedly.

Pax Christi. <><
 
Panis Angelicas:
Several people have already misread, misquoted, and incorrectly “corrected” Catholic Eagle for saying
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Pax Christi. <><

Catholic Eagle simultaneously uses the term EM to describe lay and priests.

“The bishop and priest are the only proper Eucharistic Ministers. My neighbor Ann,Mary,Joe,Johnny, or whoever is not an Eucharistic minister. Only the Bishop and Priest are eucharistic ministers. in Poland where eucharistic ministers are a rarity[available only in one diocese] seminaries are full and they have no priest shortages there.”

The point being made by this second post was a continuation of the thought that only priests should distribute communion from a post that appeared minutes earlier.

“Only the priest should give out Holy Communion. “Eucharistic ministers” are a gateway for many abuses,many abuses. Your parish EM’s can possibly take the Eucharist to black masses to have them desecrated or do other things with them.”

My orginal post accurately captures Catholic Eagles intent, highlights the rashness of thought and is correctly phrased.

The only inaccuracy found in these few posts are the opinions of Catholic Eagle and your misreading of what Catholic Eagle and I had actually written.

Peace and God Bless
 
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itsjustdave1988:
Iohannes,
Looks like a Christian about to receive the Sanctifying Grace of Christ’s Body and Blood. Looks great to me!
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You cannot even see with your own eyes. That girl looks like a priest.
 
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Ham1:
So, do you contend that one of the causes of the lack of vocations is the preponderance of EMHC’s?

If so, can you please explain how exactly the over use of EMHC’s is causing a lack of vocations?

I will agree that EMHC’s are frequently overused. However, if legitimately used EMHC’s can be either male or female.

Perhaps we should discuss the how’s and why’s of this problem intead of just relating stories along the lines of “once I saw this…” or “a parish by me does such and such…” We all agree that there are abuses out there. Simply relaying anecdotes and photos of these occurences does little to add to the conversation.

At least…that’s my opinion.
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After a priest is ordained, people come up to him and he gives a blessing to the person who comes up after that the person kisses the Priest’s hand, because his hands Consecrate the Host and he is allowed to touch the Sacred Host with his hands.

EMHC destroys the intimate relationship of the priest and Holy Communion. He is suppose to be the only person dispensing Holy Communion.

Due to this “New pentacost” we now have a priest shortage and the decline started right after Vatican II, numbers do not lie. If you still want to believe in your “New pentacost” go ahead and EMHC are part of the “Great renewel” and “early Church” fine.

On top of that Women EMHC only feminizes the liturgy even more which drives men away from vocation. Hey, boys may think it is girly to distribute Holy Communion and serve on the altar.

The overuse EMHC is one of many factors that contribute to the lack of vocation in this sad Church in America.
 
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bengal_fan:
well, (and not that i ascribe to this per se but the argument could go…) she was the first one to bring the body of Christ to the world and therefore would be the first emhc (she probably wasn’t “extraordinary” either as she is the crown of God’s creation)
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you said it so well. Thank you
 
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Iohannes:
Why would Our Blessed Mother want to be a EMHC??

How is women as EMHC Marian?
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I contend that it is an HONOR for anyone to assist with holy communion in whatever capacity allowed.
 
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Iohannes:
You cannot even see with your own eyes. That girl looks like a priest.
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She doesn’t look like any priest I’ve ever known. I think you’ve been out in the sun too long. 😉

Some churches put their EMHCs in albs so that they are more uniform in dress. It takes away some of the “distraction” that was mentioned in some other threads regarding dress at Mass. Some churches put their choir in them as well.

Personally I’m not a big fan of putting the EMHCs in albs, but I don’t really see a problem with it.

I think you are reading an awful lot into one picture without knowing the context. That girl doesn’t look like she is pretending to be a priest, and I doubt that she is aware that she is personally responsible for the destruction of vocations in the U.S. (at least she is in your opinion).

Blessings.
 
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AnnieD:
There is a real crises in our churches, visualops. Very sad that your priest couldn’t rest after having his appendix out. I will keep him in my prayers. We don’t have a deacon at our church either.
I agree, this is a very good question for the apologists.
Thanks for sharing.
Annie
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I will say this though- the 2nd priest we had who was reassigned, was a young priest from Burma. A remarkable priest to have come from such an oppressive country- both politically and religiously, and to have entered the seminary at 16 yrs old no less. He was a great help and inspiration to my husband, who is converting. It gives me great joy to see that despite our doubts and worries, the Holy Spirit is at work, often in unexpected places. We should all take comfort in the fact that indeed, Christ’s Church will always prevail.:amen:
 
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Iohannes:
After a priest is ordained, people come up to him and he gives a blessing to the person who comes up after that the person kisses the Priest’s hand, because his hands Consecrate the Host and he is allowed to touch the Sacred Host with his hands.

EMHC destroys the intimate relationship of the priest and Holy Communion. He is suppose to be the only person dispensing Holy Communion.

Due to this “New pentacost” we now have a priest shortage and the decline started right after Vatican II, numbers do not lie. If you still want to believe in your “New pentacost” go ahead and EMHC are part of the “Great renewel” and “early Church” fine.

On top of that Women EMHC only feminizes the liturgy even more which drives men away from vocation. Hey, boys may think it is girly to distribute Holy Communion and serve on the altar.

The overuse EMHC is one of many factors that contribute to the lack of vocation in this sad Church in America.
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If the EMHC “destroys the intimate relationship of the priest and Holy Communion”, then why does Cardinal Arinze allow for them. Or do you know something that he doesn’t know? Pardon me, but I think I will side with the good Cardinal and the Pope rather than an anonymous poster on the internet.

“Due to this “New pentacost” we now have a priest shortage and the decline started right after Vatican II, numbers do not lie.”

Sorry, but I really fail to see any causality in this statement. The priest shortage occured after Vatican II therefore it was caused by Vatican II??? As I have mentioned on numerous other threads abuses and problems after Vatican II stem from seminary problems well BEFORE Vatican II.

This thread is supposed to be about “women dispensing the eucharist.” The fact is that many wonderful holy Cardinals and the Pope himself say, “Yes, they can, when needed.”

It makes sense to me.
 
I read on another thread, that some mother’s don’t want their son’s to become priests, due to homosexuality in the priesthood. None of you that are against women giving communion mention that as a reason for the decline in vocations.

Annie
 
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Ham1:
If the EMHC “destroys the intimate relationship of the priest and Holy Communion”, then why does Cardinal Arinze allow for them. Or do you know something that he doesn’t know? Pardon me, but I think I will side with the good Cardinal and the Pope rather than an anonymous poster on the internet.

“Due to this “New pentacost” we now have a priest shortage and the decline started right after Vatican II, numbers do not lie.”

Sorry, but I really fail to see any causality in this statement. The priest shortage occured after Vatican II therefore it was caused by Vatican II??? As I have mentioned on numerous other threads abuses and problems after Vatican II stem from seminary problems well BEFORE Vatican II.

This thread is supposed to be about “women dispensing the eucharist.” The fact is that many wonderful holy Cardinals and the Pope himself say, “Yes, they can, when needed.”

It makes sense to me.
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Ham1,

Pope John Paul II
To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained. (Dominicae Cenae, 11)

The Council of Trent (1545-1565)
“The fact that only the priest gives Holy Communion with his consecrated hands is an Apostolic Tradition.”
 
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Iohannes:
Pope John Paul II
To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained. (Dominicae Cenae, 11)
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Too bad you neglected to include the rest of the paragraph…
"To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained, one which indicates an active participation in the ministry of the Eucharist. It is obvious that the Church can grant this faculty to those who are neither priests nor deacons, as is the case with acolytes in the exercise of their ministry, especially if they are destined for future ordination, or with other lay people who are chosen for this to meet a just need, but always after an adequate preparation. (emphasis added).

I’m sure it was an honest mistake. 😉
 
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AnnieD:
I read on another thread, that some mother’s don’t want their son’s to become priests, due to homosexuality in the priesthood. None of you that are against women giving communion mention that as a reason for the decline in vocations.

Annie
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Ok lets list the factors:

-Bad priests
  1. Homosexual priests
  2. feminized priests
  3. Unorthodox priests
    -Bad seminaries
  4. Filled with Homosexuals
  5. Unorthodox teachings
  6. Dissent
  7. Persecution of things Catholic
    -Bad Liturgy
  8. General Feminization of the liturgy
  9. Bad liturgical music.
  10. Having too many females in the altar(female altar boys, female readers, female EMHC) a man will feel that he does not belong in the liturgy and Mass. The boy does not want to serve because he thinks it is a girly thing and does not want to be bossed around by a older female altar boy.
And HIstorically Acolytes were the altar servers during Mass, who were in training to be priest.

Why are these seminaries bad? How is in charge of these seminaries, where are the bishops in this? Why have not the bishops removed the priest? How appointed these bishops?
 
Would it look great to you if you saw a uniformed military officer saluting a lower-ranking soldier in civilian attire, who was not saluting back?
I might say, that looks like that officer is showing high respect, even to a lower ranking soldier than himself, who is out of uniform!
But would it be appropriate?
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You lost me. I’m a military officer and have saluted higher ranking officers in and out of uniform. It’s not mandated, but is a sign of respect. Officers ought to return a salute to lower ranking officers, in or out of uniform. This too is a sign of respect. Civilians have saluted me as they see me in uniform too. I presume they too are showing respect. I return their salute as well.
 
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Iohannes:
Of course it is the REAL Presence. That is not the point of the picture. Read the last line again. Look at the picture and tell me what the problem is or the potential problem of it. What does it look like?
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http://www.smhs.org/pr/photo_album/IC/photo 001.jpg

Well, to me it looks like this parish is a little to small or perhaps not even built yet. Considering this mass was obviously being given in a school gym sometime during Advent, it would seem there may be many reasons this “female altar boy” as you say is serving as an EMHC. Perhaps this was midnight mass, and there was a shortage of EMHC’s or perhaps as someone has already stated she isn’t a “female altar boy” but actually a EMHC. The correct way to say it by the way is Altar Server. Hey by the way, did you see the two girls in the back making a break for it right after communion? Now that warrants an inquiry.
 
Not because the Holy See decided to institute them [altar servers], but rather because our disobedient nuance of using them with no permission was so epidemic it could hardly be stamped out
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I think you presume to know the motives of the Holy See, who in fact decided most certainly to allow female altar servers and EMHCs in accordance with canon 230, §2. Are you saying that the interpretation of canon law by the Holy See is not authentically interpreted as he contends it is?

Canon 230 §2 Lay people can receive a temporary assignment to the role of lector in liturgical actions. Likewise, all lay people can exercise the roles of commentator, cantor or other such, in accordance with the law.

On 15 March 1994, Cardinal Ortas, prefect of the Sacred Congregation of Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, wrote:
It is my duty to communicate to the presidents of the episcopal conferences that an **authentic interpretation of canon 230 §2 of the *Code of Canon Law ***will soon be published in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis …

… if the liturgical functions which can be entrusted to the law faithful, may be carried out **equally be men and women, **and if serving at the altar may be included among those function, on a par with the other indicated by the canon …

… The following response was given: “Affimative et iuxta instructiones a Seda Apostolica dandas” … Pope John Paul II confimed the decision and orderd its promulgation.

… Canon 230 §2 has a permissive and not a preceptive character … Hence the permission given in this regard by some bishops can in no way be considered as binding on other bishops.
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The Holy See gave his authentic interpretation of canon law. To presume he faked the authenticity in his role as Supreme Legislator to appease the masses is unconvincing.

The only manner in which one may be considered disobedient, is if one’s bishop did not allow it and some parish in his diocese was doing it despite the bishop’s authority to decide otherwise.
EMHCs themselves, if used according to the Church’s instructions, would not be harmful. But the misuse and over use of them does harm the Church, undoubtedly. (ephasis added)
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**Amen! **
 
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OhioBob:
Too bad you neglected to include the rest of the paragraph…"To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained, one which indicates an active participation in the ministry of the Eucharist. It is obvious that the Church can grant this faculty to those who are neither priests nor deacons, as is the case with acolytes in the exercise of their ministry, especially if they are destined for future ordination, or with other lay people who are chosen for this to meet a just need, but always after an adequate preparation. (emphasis added).

I’m sure it was an honest mistake. 😉
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Well done, Ohio Bob!!! These kind of “honest mistakes” can happen, can’t they? http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
 
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